2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Dan403

Trading 19 is the stupidest idea I've heard in a long long time.

1. Depends what you get in return
2. Building around a winger while having weak C depth is way stupider

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Coach

The faith people have that unknown quantities like 16-18 year olds continues to blow my mind. Even with Bennett added to the conversation, who himself was once touted as a top line center in waiting for which we are still waiting and will likely not be the case.

I’m not against trading Gaudreau Monahan and/or Gio, but there’s no guarantee picks turn into players that are as good. I’m not on board with trading Tkachuk at all though.

I think the general consensus on Tkachuk is that it would be stupid to trade him unless it was for an elite #1 center. A trade like that probably isn't possible, therefore Tkachuk isn't going to be traded.

Since these centers are so difficult to acquire, the only realistic way to do so is to take a flyer on a high draft pick with upside.

I don't believe either Monahan or Gaudreau can fetch a top 5 pick in this draft. The players from 5 to 10 have a lower chance of turning out, and aren't sure things.

If Treliving is going to shake things up, he's going to have to gamble.
Or just try to build a team without that level of center.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by 868904

I really don’t think there’s going to be a lot of value to Gaudreau and Monahan. I highly doubt you are getting a top 10 pick for either Johnny or Mony. You are going to have to trade them for other flawed players.

Maybe Gaudreau and Monahan for Domi and Gallagher. Sign Hall.

Domi doesn’t have a great playoff record either but it’s just his first time. Gallagher had produced in the past, this year, his team is just overmatched.

Why does Montreal do it? Offense is a pretty big issue for them, and Gaudreau really fits into their history of highly skilled “flying Frenchmen”. Similarly, Domi and Gallagher really fit into the historic Flames identity of hard nosed blue collar workers.

Tkachuk-Domi-Gallagher (pos line)
Hall-Lindholm-Dube/Ryan
Mangiapane-Backlund-Gawdin
Lucic-Bennett-Ryan/Dube

Still don’t have an elite number 1 centre but damn that is a highly competitive group and a difficult team to play against.

Imagine dealing with Lucic and Bennett, then having to deal with Tkachuk-Domi-Gallagher.

You probably also get the best out of Lucic in the next couple of years with his rejuvenation adding one of his best buds in Gallagher.

I assume you are just spitballing but that is an absolute horrendous deal for the Flames. Gallagher needs a big money long term deal as he is one year from UFA status. He has a career high 54pts.

Domi is a big downgrade on Monahan and has one season over 20 goals to his name. Neither are leading the Habs to the playoffs year in and year out so it is shuffling the chairs on 2 players who are worse than the ones we have. Sure they play a tougher style but skill wise it is a downgrade.

If the Flames trade Monahan and Gaudreau i highly doubt it is a 2 for 2 scenario.

[Poe969]

Being closed minded when it comes to moving players is an incredible way to build a mediocre at best team. Every single player is available. All of them. If the sens offered up 3 and 5 for Tkachuck, I would pull the trigger. You'd be getting a future #1 center and another core piece (either another really good C, maybe a winger as good, an incredible D or an elite level goalie). I think you'd be crazy not to move him for that.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Being closed minded when it comes to moving players is an incredible way to build a mediocre at best team. Every single player is available. All of them. If the sens offered up 3 and 5 for Tkachuck, I would pull the trigger. You'd be getting a future #1 center and another core piece (either another really good C, maybe a winger as good, an incredible D or an elite level goalie). I think you'd be crazy not to move him for that.

You seem pretty certain of this. If that was for sure the case why in the world would the other team make this trade?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by New Era

If you're going there, you may as well burn the whole team to the ground. Throw away all your assets on draft picks and hope that in three to five years they are ready to be NHL players. Until then piss your fans off by icing a team that is out of the playoff race by Halloween.

I've really grown to despise the draft. Every year people fall in love with 17 and 18 year olds, who they claim are certain to be the next great superstars, yet never understand that the road to the NHL is extremely difficult and players are unlikely to achieve their potential. Every year it is trade away the players you invested time, energy, and money into developing, just for more kids that you have to invest more time, energy, and money into developing, only to watch the vast majority of them fail.

Can we please get away from this vicious cycle and instead focus on trading for players that are on the verge of achieving their promise? There is always a team out there willing to make a trade for immediate help and give away those types of players. Do that and save years of development and wasted money. I appreciate it is not as much fun as watching a kid put up some gaudy numbers in the junior ranks for a couple of seasons, building the hype and setting expectations they will never achieve, but it helps with attaining a more even keel in building a team.

This is all true, and I'm guilty of it from time to time as well. Shiny new toys and all that...

It especially irritates me when people want to trade a proven young NHL star for just one of these highly rated 17/18 year olds, because at this point the belief is there is no way that 17/18 year old will fail to reach his potential.

For example, Tkachuk for 3rd overall straight up is a complete rip off for the team with 3rd overall. The chance of the player picked with the 3rd overall being as good as Tkachuk is very low. But all people see at this time of the year with the draft looming are the Petterson's/Makar's/Hughes' but they forget about the Bennett's/Dal Colle's/Lias Andersson's.

[shniper]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Being closed minded when it comes to moving players is an incredible way to build a mediocre at best team. Every single player is available. All of them. If the sens offered up 3 and 5 for Tkachuck, I would pull the trigger. You'd MAYBE be getting a future #1 center and another core piece (either another really good C, maybe a winger as good, an incredible D or an elite level goalie). I think you'd be crazy not to move him for that.

Fixed

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Coach

You seem pretty certain of this. If that was for sure the case why in the world would the other team make this trade?

Only really works if they have their own C piece already. Like Philly or Buffalo. Doesn’t really work with Ottawa.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Being closed minded when it comes to moving players is an incredible way to build a mediocre at best team. Every single player is available. All of them. If the sens offered up 3 and 5 for Tkachuck, I would pull the trigger. You'd be getting a future #1 center and another core piece (either another really good C, maybe a winger as good, an incredible D or an elite level goalie). I think you'd be crazy not to move him for that.

Originally Posted by Coach

You seem pretty certain of this. If that was for sure the case why in the world would the other team make this trade?

Exactly. It's not certain, it's a risk and proves that people over value draft picks and prospects this time of the hockey season.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

That would be a dream summer.
We essentially have the same team as right now but with 2 passengers turned into top 10 picks. All upside.

A dream summer?

We wouldn’t even be in the playoffs this year or last if we didn’t have Gaudreau and Monahan. You think our offense is anemic now? Wait until those guys are gone.

You call it upside, the Oilers call it “hope”

[Poe969]

You guys are right, draft picks are lottery tickets. The thing is that Tkachuck is too at this point. He hasn't played well in the playoffs, he just got a concussion and his next contract is 9-10 mill. Don't get me wrong, I like him but I am open to trading every single player in the organization. Building a team is a gamble, the only safe bet you could make is to keep this team together and bet that they don't have future success.

[PepsiFree]

I think there's a big difference between wanting to actively shop a guy (Gaudreau) and being open to trading any player if the upgrade is big enough (Tkachuk).

You can say the upgrade isn't big enough, and that's fair, but nobody on this team in untouchable. We don't have a MacKinnon/Crosby/Ovechkin franchise type player, and until we do, nobody should be excluded from conversations.

There are guys across the lineup like Tkachuk, Andersson, Dube, and Bennett who I would never shop, and who I don't believe you're really going to get better value for in a trade anyway. But if you somehow do? Of course you trade them.

[mennoknight]

Originally Posted by Poe969

You guys are right, draft picks are lottery tickets. The thing is that Tkachuck is too at this point. He hasn't played well in the playoffs, he just got a concussion and his next contract is 9-10 mill. Don't get me wrong, I like him but I am open to trading every single player in the organization. Building a team is a gamble, the only safe bet you could make is to keep this team together and bet that they don't have future success.

Our team's leading scorer and heart and soul guy might actually be a detriment to the team is a catastrophically stupid take

[IrishSpring2013]

Really feel like Lukas Raymond is going to be the steal of the draft. Alex Holtz and the goalie Yaroslav Askarov are after him. Raymond ends up going top five IMO but if the Flames can sell on Monahan and Gaudreau, pick some some picks in the top ten, you do it.

Potential teams to trade with are the Sens at five and Devils at eight. Both teams might feel they have enough prospects and want to get a more established player to make a push to the next step.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by New Era

If you're going there, you may as well burn the whole team to the ground. Throw away all your assets on draft picks and hope that in three to five years they are ready to be NHL players. Until then piss your fans off by icing a team that is out of the playoff race by Halloween.

I've really grown to despise the draft. Every year people fall in love with 17 and 18 year olds, who they claim are certain to be the next great superstars, yet never understand that the road to the NHL is extremely difficult and players are unlikely to achieve their potential. Every year it is trade away the players you invested time, energy, and money into developing, just for more kids that you have to invest more time, energy, and money into developing, only to watch the vast majority of them fail.

Can we please get away from this vicious cycle and instead focus on trading for players that are on the verge of achieving their promise? There is always a team out there willing to make a trade for immediate help and give away those types of players. Do that and save years of development and wasted money. I appreciate it is not as much fun as watching a kid put up some gaudy numbers in the junior ranks for a couple of seasons, building the hype and setting expectations they will never achieve, but it helps with attaining a more even keel in building a team.

Seems to me that situations like the Lindros, Brett Hull or Iginla trades happen rather rarely.

Who would be the emerging young stars today that are in play from a trade perspective?

There's nothing fun about waiting for drafted players to develop but patience can be rewarded too. I'd hate to rule out building a team through the draft.

[TheScorpion]

We don't assemble teams here, that's done in Flint, Michigan.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Seems to me that situations like the Lindros, Brett Hull or Iginla trades happen rather rarely.

Who would be the emerging young stars today that are in play from a trade perspective?

There's nothing fun about waiting for drafted players to develop but patience can be rewarded too. I'd hate to rule out building a team through the draft.

The Lindros trade was so unique it would never happen again. Iggie wasn't even in the league and while he was a good prospect, it's not like he was, as an 11th pick, some sort of can't miss guy. It's actually wild how much better he is than any other skater in that draft. Only Kipper comes even close as a goalie as well.

Maybe the closest is Hull, where Calgary arguably exaggerated his flaws in their own mind, and at the same time, correctly saw themselves as a piece or two from a cup.

[iLoveLamp]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Being closed minded when it comes to moving players is an incredible way to build a mediocre at best team. Every single player is available. All of them. If the sens offered up 3 and 5 for Tkachuck, I would pull the trigger. You'd be getting a future #1 center and another core piece (either another really good C, maybe a winger as good, an incredible D or an elite level goalie). I think you'd be crazy not to move him for that.

3 and 5 are magic beans. Could be a future #1 Center, but that's what Bennett was when we drafted him.

If Treliving traded Tkachuk for magic beans, I would mail my jerseys back to the team

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by iLoveLamp

3 and 5 are magic beans. Could be a future #1 Center, but that's what Bennett was when we drafted him.

If Treliving traded Tkachuk for magic beans, I would mail my jerseys back to the team

I don’t know enough about the top 3 guys, but Bennett was pegged as a 1/2 centre.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by IrishSpring2013

Really feel like Lukas Raymond is going to be the steal of the draft. Alex Holtz and the goalie Yaroslav Askarov are after him. Raymond ends up going top five IMO but if the Flames can sell on Monahan and Gaudreau, pick some some picks in the top ten, you do it.

Potential teams to trade with are the Sens at five and Devils at eight. Both teams might feel they have enough prospects and want to get a more established player to make a push to the next step.

Raymond isn't a C though. He's a great piece for sure but is he the piece that makes the most sense for Calgary? I'm not sure.