As much as I've liked Treliving during his time as GM, another first round exit could be the start of the end for him. He is ultimately responsible, this is his team.
This team should be better, but it isn't. Might be time to make those tough choices and move out some of the core. I've been saying trade Johnny for a season or two now. Feels like Iggy all over again. Wait too long and that franchise altering trade becomes a shadow of what it could have been.
With Gio nearing retirement our 'great D core' will need some significant improvement too.
In short, this team needs help at all positions. Ah well, at least as a lifelong Flames fan this isn't a new thing. Not really that disappointing nowadays, more like expected. I'm envious of my son being a Pens fan. He chose wisely.
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While he has played okay in a 3rd line role it's a big stretch to say he's worth the $5.25 million the Flames are paying him or the $6 million he takes up in cap space. If he was making maybe $3 million I supposed you could say he was earning his money.
In a thread titled anemic offense where the flames scored one goal, in a series where each game has essentially been a 1 goal game, the difference between the flames winning and losing is basically not having a legit top 6 player who would be making between 5-7 million.
Lucic has been good but the cap allocation of this team is what will be the eventual downfall.
Brandon Saad at 6 mil on this roster probably makes Geoff Ward look like a great coach.
GG was awful, but I don't think you can hang the lack of progression on him alone. Those players also stalled under Bob the year after they got to round 2.
But no question that what has ground progress of this team to a halt. The strategy hinged on the core continuing to improve and progress. Instead Johnny has regressed, Monahan arguably has as well. Sam stalled out. Even a guy like Jankowski, who looked like he could be an important piece at one point, may not even be in the NHL soon.
Way too many players stalled or regressed and not enough progressed.
Coaching is a factor as well, but it could also be that we all had a false perception of what the ceiling of these guys was and is.
It's where the 14-15 season was a curse to be honest. The season was great fun, and the only official playoff round this team has won in 16 years but it threw off the trajectory of the team from "Rebuild" to "Win Now" too quickly. The team wasn't ready to be in "Win Now" mode but that season pushed ownership, management, and the fan base to that space again. But the biggest thing is that since the expecations changed the coaching style went from "development" to "win now".
So what ended up happening is we didn't properly develop our young players, and instead deployed them in the way that was going to end up with the best short term results.
-Instead of Monahan getting time as a 200ft center, he was leveraged in a sheltered offensive center role that was getting fed offensive zone starts, and no PK time.
-Bennett was bounced around the lineup, shifted between C and LW and didn't really find a role. Also was never used on the PK to help develop defensive awareness.
-Gaudreau also didn't really develop a 200ft game and was used in sheltered offensive minutes as well.
-Tkachuk came in and made an impact which helped, but really he has holes in his game (poor skating, doesn't PK) that also weren't developed.
-Guys like Janko, Gillies, Poirier, Klimchuk, etc didn't develop as anticipated either, leading us to make other moves to try to accelerate the rebuild and add to the core.
Plus over the next two seasons they signed Brouwer and Frolik to big, longer term contracts to add to the core. Traded 1st, 2nd, 2nd, for Hamilton. Traded a 2nd, 3rd for Elliott. And looking further down the line they made the ill advised Hamonic trade. So the team started looking for short term stop gaps to help in the playoffs, instead of what should have been along term plan still.
In retrospect that season was probably a curse more than a help because it changed the expectations and people thought the rebuild was further along than it actually was.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 08-19-2020 at 10:24 AM.
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I still think goes 7. might as well cheer hard for them. At any rate I am interested to see the GAF meter on these guys. I know the effort is there, it is just that Dallas is smothering and making it really hard out there. One thing for sure, they sure miss Tkachuk.
I honestly wonder if GG is the worst coach in Flames history.
Think of when he took over - Monahan & Gaudreau were looking like our Toewes & Kane. Bennett was looking like a superstar in the making.
GG gets his hands on them and now we have 2 1-way soft players, and a 3rd line C. Not to mention how he also tried to destroy Brodie.
I know it's hindsight, but Treliving almost deserves a firing for that hire as this is what it has left us. He better NAIL this next HC hire, but I am betting he goes the coward way and just keeps Ward.
As to keeping Ward, I really hope not and here's why. I wouldn't say that I dislike Ward as a coach necessarily, but I just don't think he's the right guy for the job with this particular core. I mean who knows, the guys might love him, and he might have some really good strategies in terms of x's and o's. But I'm a big believer that the team takes on the personality of their coach, and having watched Ward operate since December what's clear to me is that he's so even keeled he's practically catatonic. And that's the way that a lot of this teams plays, a lot of the time. They don't get overly mad, they don't push back, they're not aggressive, they're just ... blah. And after a game that they should be pissed off about, they seem to say that they played pretty good and things just didn't work out.
I really think that this team, in its current form anyway, needs a coach who kicks them in the ass and hands out a good dose of accountability to passengers on a nightly basis. I feel like somebody like Torts or Sutter would work perfectly for this squad. Nice guys like Ward and GG aren't working.
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I think if we keep Ward as Head Coach its a statement from management that this is basically all they expect of this team.
With so many veteran coaches available, so sidetrack them to keep going with Ward is basically waving the white flag on this team's opportunity to be anything other than a plucky 'also ran.'
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I still think goes 7. might as well cheer hard for them. At any rate I am interested to see the GAF meter on these guys. I know the effort is there, it is just that Dallas is smothering and making it really hard out there. One thing for sure, they sure miss Tkachuk.
I remember people asking this question last year and the answer was a giant turd in game 5. I expect the same result tomorrow. Why would it be any different?
GG was awful, but I don't think you can hang the lack of progression on him alone. Those players also stalled under Bob the year after they got to round 2.
I wonder if this narrative would be true if Jonas Hiller didn't have the worst SV% in the NHL that year. That, and we had a partner for Dougie Hamilton. That was the year we were trying guys like Kris Russell and Jyrki Jokipakka in our middle defense pair.
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It's a pretty damning message being sent. Rittich isn't "the guy".
So, with the expiring contracts and performance of players on the roster, this team has no:
#1 defenceman
#2 defenceman
#1 centre
#1 left wing
#1 goalie
...I mean we can call it whatever we want, but we're effectively rebuilding through incompetence yet again.
Ward isn't the coach for the Flames - get a real coach! I would say Rittich IS the Flames #1 goalie but it seems Ward has his favorites. Obviously Talbot's played some great games where he has his positioning perfect, but when he's not perfect, he's like most typical butterfly goalie down on his knees, slow to get up and sitting back at the goal crease in one spot and immobile.
Also, I'll correct this team's have-nots:
1) No power right winger with a natural right hand shot - Lindholm is not a power forward. Treliving has been plugging left hand left wingers into the right side.
2) Other than Andersson right now, there's no other natural right hand shot d-man. With the loss of Hamonic, Andersson is the only natural right side d-man. Forbort and Gustafsson are just stop gap 3rd/4th line depths.
3) Flames don't have a backup goalie. From the Kipper era until now, every backup wants to be the #1 goalie, but now the Flames do have a #1 goalie in Rittich but you have Talbot taking up that position by the interim coach's decision.
4) Flames don't have a head coach - Ward isn't the head coach for the Flames - Game 3 is indicative of that. Flames are leading and with less than a minute to go, he's got Gaudreau and Forbort out. Gaudreau loses the battle in his own zone and Forbort is not covering anyone. Dallas scores the tying goal and loses in OT. Flames could've been up 2-0 but instead was tied in the series. Ward should've pulled Talbot after the 3rd or 4th goal in the 2nd period knowing that he's going with Talbot again the very next day.
By the expansion draft, the Flames might not even have:
#1 (Expansion Draft), #2 (free agency), and #4 (free agency) d-men
The only thing you have correct is the Flames never did have a #1 centerman ever since Niewendyk left the Flames.
I think if we keep Ward as Head Coach its a statement from management that this is basically all they expect of this team.
With so many veteran coaches available, so sidetrack them to keep going with Ward is basically waving the white flag on this team's opportunity to be anything other than a plucky 'also ran.'
I really like Ward, but like any player, if there's a big upgrade available you make the switch. And nobody in their right mind can argue there aren't big upgrades available.
If Treliving doesn't hire a new, proven coach it's a complete failure at this point.
It's a pretty damning message being sent. Rittich isn't "the guy".
I have heard quasi-insider info that they definitely think Talbot is more emotionally suited for the starting role. Rittich, though very good when on a roll, sometimes gets way too agitated.
Lol, Monahan has absolutely not battled on the boards and has avoided the front of the net like the plague resides there. I get the narrative on here is to attack Gaudreau but he has actually been much more engaged than Monahan.
Monahan has absolutely been a disappointment much like Gaudreau. But I do think a lot of Monahan's lack of offense is a result of Gaudreau and Lindholm.
At least Monahan has had multiple shifts consisting of hard work on the backcheck to get the puck back and give it to Gaudreau or Lindholm. That's where the play usually dies from what I've seen.
Link
Great battle to outmuscle the Star and create a 2 on 1 out of nothing. Nice stick by Sekera, but Johnny needs to get that pass across as it would have iced a win most likely (would have made it 5-3).
Link
Great bachcheck to cover for Rasmus who didn't have the speed.
Link
Monahan enters the zone 1 on 4 and rings the puck to 2 Flames, Brodie and Gaudreau. Gaudreau gives Brodie zero option with the puck. Monahan gets it back and makes another nice play to get the puck to Brodie again, once again Johnny is floating around not helping.
As I said, Monahan's lack of offense is a huge disappointment. But I see him battling out there to help his teammates, something that Gaudreau has basically not done at all from what I've seen. I definitely think Monahan would have had some success if he wasn't paired with Gaudreau through these 5 games.
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I have heard quasi-insider info that they definitely think Talbot is more emotionally suited for the starting role. Rittich, though very good when on a roll, sometimes gets way too agitated.
Ward obviously made to right call with Talbot...I would bring him back and give him the bulk of the workload. Guy has had one bad season in his career and he had the Oilers in front of him not playing D
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I really like Ward, but like any player, if there's a big upgrade available you make the switch. And nobody in their right mind can argue there aren't big upgrades available.
If Treliving doesn't hire a new, proven coach it's a complete failure at this point.
Thats precisely it.
I like Ward too, but I also think that some of the quality on this roster has papered over some of his mistakes and when the margins become razor thin those mistakes tend to be revealed.
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I still think Bruce Boudreau is the right coach for this team.
- Can be emotional and wear his heart on his sleeve but doesn't seem like a guy who is a dick to his players
- Has proven he can coach different styles, tailoring the style of play to his roster in his stops in Anaheim, Washington, and Minnesota
- A .635 career winning percentage over 1000 games coached and 8 division titles
- 8 times he's coached a team to a 100 point season, more than the Flames have in their entire history.
So yeah that's a guy I think they should look at bringing in as coach no matter the cost.
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Ward obviously made to right call with Talbot...I would bring him back and give him the bulk of the workload. Guy has had one bad season in his career and he had the Oilers in front of him not playing D
Treliving was trying to get Talbot as far back as 2015 and seems to have coveted him up until they got him last year. I also expect Talbot to come back.
