The Alpha Course

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Mayer

Candle in the ear? Please explain because I have no idea what that is?

This is the "medical" explanation but some people use it for some spiritual mumbo jumbo too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ear_candling

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

To take your "one with the earth" example, does that mean Native people's beliefs are "fluff"?

Obviously not. It means those beliefs are crap.

[Mayer]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

To take your "one with the earth" example, does that mean Native people's beliefs are "fluff"?

Perhaps "fluff" was a poor choice of words. With that being said, I do not know the first thing about what Natives believe so it'd be tough for me to comment.

However, something like believing in re-incarnation to me is silly. I think it's ridiculous to think that when we die we come back as a tree or something, but thats just what I believe. I don't judge people who might think that though.

It all comes down to the fact that I believe what I believe, and others might believe something different. I'm used to people crapping on my faith so it really doesn't bother me anymore.

[Mayer]

Originally Posted by rubecube

This is the "medical" explanation but some people use it for some spiritual mumbo jumbo too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ear_candling

Thats interesting. It's the first I have ever heard of it. I'm not exactly sure how it relates to the discussion though. Is this a means of finding spirituality for some people?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Mayer

However, something like believing in re-incarnation to me is silly. I think it's ridiculous to think that when we die we come back as a tree or something, but thats just what I believe. I don't judge people who might think that though.

Believing we all go to a magical land where everything is perfect after we die isn't? The sad thing is there's more scientific evidence towards attempting to prove reincarnation than there is to Heaven and Hell.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Mayer

Thats interesting. It's the first I have ever heard of it. I'm not exactly sure how it relates to the discussion though. Is this a means of finding spirituality for some people?

Not finding it. It really doesn't relate at all just an example of people doing weird **** in the name of spirituality.

[Mayer]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Believing we all go to a magical land where everything is perfect after we die isn't? The sad thing is there's more scientific evidence towards attempting to prove reincarnation than there is to Heaven and Hell.

How can there possibly be scientific evidence to suport people spirits being transfered to another object/person/living creature after they die?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Mayer

How can there possibly be scientific evidence to suport people spirits being transfered to another object/person/living creature after they die?

Well not in that sense. You have to look at it scientifically in that energy can neither be created or destroyed. So as in particles/atoms from your body being transferred.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Believing we all go to a magical land where everything is perfect after we die isn't? The sad thing is there's more scientific evidence towards attempting to prove reincarnation than there is to Heaven and Hell.

You're pulling all the strings today rube.

The reason there is no scientific evidence of a heaven and hell, is because both places are spiritual. Now you can choose not to believe that, I'll still think you're a cool guy either way, but those of us who DO believe it, do so based on faith.

Reincarnation is believing we come back to the physical world in the form of something else.

[Mayer]

Originally Posted by Azure

You're pulling all the strings today rube.

The reason there is no scientific evidence of a heaven and hell, is because both places are spiritual. Now you can choose not to believe that, I'll still think you're a cool guy either way, but those of us who DO believe it, do so based on faith.

Reincarnation is believing we come back to the physical world in the form of something else.

Thats basically what I was just about to post. Heaven/Hell is purely based on faith. I can't explain the complete confidence in what I believe in a tangible sense. It's just something that is there and is strong.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Azure

You're pulling all the strings today rube.

Just doing my job.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Just doing my job.

And its appreciated.

My faith is only as strong as my will to challenge it each day.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Mayer

Thats basically what I was just about to post. Heaven/Hell is purely based on faith. I can't explain the complete confidence in what I believe in a tangible sense. It's just something that is there and is strong.

See, I find it strange you feel free to pass judgment on the spirituality of others when you full admit that you spirituality is based on faith as well.

You said earlier: "I'm used to people crapping on my faith so it really doesn't bother me anymore." which implies that it did used to bother you. Then why would you feel free to call other ideas "crap" and "fluff", be they re-incarnation, new-age, or whatever.

Why can't you just be happy with what you believe without judging the spirituality of others?

[Mayer]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

See, I find it strange you feel free to pass judgment on the spirituality of others when you full admit that you spirituality is based on faith as well.

You said earlier: "I'm used to people crapping on my faith so it really doesn't bother me anymore." which implies that it did used to bother you. Then why would you feel free to call other ideas "crap" and "fluff", be they re-incarnation, new-age, or whatever.

Why can't you just be happy with what you believe without judging the spirituality of others?

People can believe what they want. I don't care, but I don't think there is anything wrong with me having an opinion on that particular belief. Lord knows everyone has an opinion about Christians whether they are a believer or not.

Calling particular beliefs "crap" or "fluff" was a mistake on my part. Thats not respectful to those people.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Why can't you just be happy with what you believe without judging the spirituality of others?

Does that include atheists as well? Its pretty obvious how people are judging the Alpha Course in this thread, calling it a crock, general hogwash, a scam, etc. Why not an outcry over that? Can't people believe what they want without judging the belief of others?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Azure

Can't people believe what they want without judging the belief of others?

What are you, a communist? That sounds like moral relativism to me. Leave it in your ivory tower, professor.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

What are you, a communist? That sounds like moral relativism to me. Leave it in your ivory tower, professor.

Yeah, next you're going to telling us we shouldn't go to war without proper intellingence. Pinko!

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

To take your "one with the earth" example, does that mean Native people's beliefs are "fluff"?

To be quite blunt, to Christianity, ultimately any spirtual idea that is not deemed Christian in origin, or even deviating from whatever the particular sect or denomination views as orthodox or dogmatic...is basically fluff yes.

I believe the "one with the earth" idea is what many modern Christian institutions would label New Age (lump in astrology, enviromental spirituality, hippies, mystic healing, etc.)

My particular issue with Christianity and many religions in general is that there is no final authority but one's own discretion. How can so few people all claim they are right and the majority of other groups and peoples in the world to be wrong? I think that's human nature at work and a great deal of short-sightedness or egoism.

Anyway, this Alpha Course is just a pre-packaged way for Christians to reach out and prosetylize. If you want to use your brain rather than be brainwashed, why don't you go along and then actually challenge people's beliefs and see if they really understand what they are believing in the first place. I find that many Christians don't or have an overly romanticized or selective interpretation for themselves.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

My particular issue with Christianity and many religions in general is that there is no final authority but one's own discretion. How can so few people all claim they are right and the majority of other groups and peoples in the world to be wrong? I think that's human nature at work and a great deal of short-sightedness or egoism.

I think that's an interesting observation.. because it's not even just other groups and peoples of the world that are "wrong", it's groups and people's within Christianity itself. Many times on this forum (and even in this thread!) people have said "I don't consider them Christian" whereas if you asked those people they WOULD consider themselves Christian.

That's one of the issues I see, when visible Christian leaders or groups do things that are obviously over the line, the first line is "they weren't real Christians". There seems to be no real standard of what is and isn't a real Christian beyond everyone's individual opinion.

[Mayer]

Originally Posted by photon

I think that's an interesting observation.. because it's not even just other groups and peoples of the world that are "wrong", it's groups and people's within Christianity itself. Many times on this forum (and even in this thread!) people have said "I don't consider them Christian" whereas if you asked those people they WOULD consider themselves Christian.

That's one of the issues I see, when visible Christian leaders or groups do things that are obviously over the line, the first line is "they weren't real Christians". There seems to be no real standard of what is and isn't a real Christian beyond everyone's individual opinion.

Here's one obvious standard. A problem I have with Mormons and JW's calling themselves "Christians", and thats the fact that they feel the need to change some things in the Bible, as well as add onto it. If you are a true Christian, you believe the Bible is God inspired word, and it is final. I can't tell you how many times I've had arguements with Mormons after they've referred to themselves as Christians. I can't stand it.

People want to talk about brainwashed, they need to talk about those 2 groups.