Violence in Gaza...

[Looger]

it's past blame, Azure, simple as that.

god told the zionists that the land is theirs, and they have passed the point of no return, the hatred is too extreme, and the israelis will never allow the palestinians to exist in any meaningful manner.

this is a war that will end with extermination.

right now we are doing israel's dirty work, balkanizing the entire middle east and destroying all socially advanced secular nations with enough science and industry to ever prove a potential future threat to israel's dominion.

the sick thinking behind this primacy can be demonstrated by reading, for example, ostrovsky's 'by way of deception', in which the mossad kills an egyptian nuclear scientist not because he's working on any particular nuclear weapons program, but because he is too smart and he made 'the list'. they did have the decency to send him a hooker before they slit his throat though. eventually they decided she had seen too much, and she had to go too.

this thinking, this self-importance, this insanity, is the reason there can never be peace. never - unless this thinking changes.

if israel is ever forced to make peace on real, regional terms with its own resources and no one to back them up i used to think it would be possible - they have 300-400 nukes and an as$-kicking air force and all the cards - but as long as they have a blank checque and absolutely zero international accountability required, why pursue real peace when you can simply wait until all the refugees die and every palestinian is sick of no water, food, future etc. and simply leaves?

nations faced with this finality staring them in the face, the knowledge that the western world will destroy them unless they accept israel as the master of their destiny, makes them want to defend themselves.

the royal houses occupying the mideast have been set up initially by england / america and/or have given in.

the nations that say 'no' we are selectively destroying. and by nations i mean the strength, intelligence, and economic resources of the people.

iraq is being systematically and thoroughly destroyed.

iran is next.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

NO...they are people who have been brain washed into thinking they are out of options. Even if they had no other recourse.....you think the only option is to blow your self up along with a bunch of other people??

i'd advise you to check out the movie i posted on page 2, or any resource except big media, on the subject of the full and happy lives these people lead.

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Right

I guess the 911 suicide attackers ran out of options???

which ones, the saudis???

whatever man. i posted a link to a speech given by the consullate head in jeddah the issued visas to those guys, under orders from the CIA.

if you still believe that crap there's not much i can do for you, but cry for the state of western civilization.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Azure

I cannot blame suicide bombers...because they're fighting back. Right?

i guess if you can't 'blame' the zionists for starting the conflict then why not?

after all the 'blame' has to go on someone.

might as well 'blame' the victims.

you know, you're so right!

these palestinians - they should just stop responding when people kill them. they should just stay at home and eat some falafe - oh that's right the land is defoliated. well that international aid is coming, righ - oh that's right sorry. well they can always send the kids out to pick the figs off the tre - oops extremist settlers use them for target practice from their compunds on the hills.

well they can always sit around and watch their cities crumble, that should keep them busy until the bulldozers come.

[Azure]

Suicide bombers are not victims....and frankly, this is pathetic.

I'm not going to argue with someone who sympathizes with people who blow themselves up...killing hundreds of innocent people.

[Looger]

i don't sympathize with anyone who kills others.

i just wonder why we support those that killed his family and neighbours with absolutely no strings attached.

EDIT: realizing reality in the really really real world is not sympathy.

realizing the INEVITABILITY of people fighting back is to understand why things happen.

EDIT 2: i'm WAYYYY done here Azure. go ahead and accuse me of 'sympathizing' once more though.

you know you waaaanna.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Looger

it's past blame, Azure, simple as that.

god told the zionists that the land is theirs, and they have passed the point of no return, the hatred is too extreme, and the israelis will never allow the palestinians to exist in any meaningful manner.

this is a war that will end with extermination.

right now we are doing israel's dirty work, balkanizing the entire middle east and destroying all socially advanced secular nations with enough science and industry to ever prove a potential future threat to israel's dominion.

You have to be quite warped to believe this pile of dung. To beleive that Israel is trying to take over the entire Middle East.

To really beleive this is to think that the return of the Sinai to Egypt was a ploy to give Egypt a desert buffer to make invasion much more difficult. Guess they need a little workout before enveloping Egypt? Giving away their biffer zone in Lebanon was so they could invade over and over again? Or if rumours are to beleived that the return of the Golan heights is also a ploy to lull Zionist (ie. Dirty Jews) enemies into a true sense of security.

Come to think of it.....if the Jews, errrr Zionists really wanted to wipe the Palestinians off the map in a war of extermination.....what are they waiting for? The palestinians are as divided as ever...it's not like they could stop the Jews....errrr Zionists.

A country of 6 million (20% of whom are Arabs) is some how this massive threat to 300 million people. Hmmmmm....

[Looger]

Originally Posted by HOZ

You have to be quite warped to believe this pile of dung. To beleive that Israel is trying to take over the entire Middle East.

there's a difference between 'take over' and dominion.

like the old oil pipeline to haifa, from iraq, that's being reconnected as we speak.

like the water resources that israel is short of, and needs to take.

Originally Posted by HOZ

To really beleive this is to think that the return of the Sinai to Egypt was a ploy to give Egypt a desert buffer to make invasion much more difficult. Guess they need a little workout before enveloping Egypt? Giving away their biffer zone in Lebanon was so they could invade over and over again? Or if rumours are to beleived that the return of the Golan heights is also a ploy to lull Zionist (ie. Dirty Jews) enemies into a true sense of security.

wow, you are really trying here, aren't you? too bad i'm not a sick little ball of hatred like you are. too bad i've discussed these things with israelis i know.

invading lebanon over and over again allows israel to destroy what little infrastructure sprouted up while they were away, and further radicalize the populace.

egypt and jordan have accepted israel's dominance, and now they are left alone.

Originally Posted by HOZ

Come to think of it.....if the Jews, errrr Zionists really wanted to wipe the Palestinians off the map in a war of extermination.....what are they waiting for? The palestinians are as divided as ever...it's not like they could stop the Jews....errrr Zionists.

nice try there HOZ!

boy you just don't even know what you're messing with here, do you?

interesting that zionists worked with hitler, convincing jews to go into camps...

interesting also that zionists were part of the political pressure put on the brits to stop the nazi-zionist ships of jews into palestine...

interesting also that hitler and the good old boy of zionism, theodor herzl, corresponded WELL into the unpleasantness, long after jews were being rounded up...

interesting that when there were only two political parties allowed in germany, one was the zionist party!

interesting that zionist extremists were caught many times instituting a wave of violence in iraq (killing jews!) very prominently but elsewhere, trying to get all mideast jews to move to israel. eventually they stirred up enough violence to get the job done.

Originally Posted by HOZ

A country of 6 million (20% of whom are Arabs) is some how this massive threat to 300 million people. Hmmmmm....

nope, but we sure are.

zionism is more aboot banking, more aboot resource domination of the mideast, more aboot international control then it ever could be aboot judaism.

international banking wears many faces, often it is 'the joooos' - very good disguise, as anyone saying 'international banker' is automatically an anti-semite in your dim and twisted mind.

as to 'the joooos' taking over the middle east, i personally think they're being set up for the fall here. the safety of each individual in israel is not a high priority of zionism / neo-cons / the radical empire faction of this here New World Order.

EDIT: permanent military bases in iraq and a US army that's 20% non-citizens and will be 50% by 2010, plus a huge private veteran army, are obviously part of the program here, and it doesn't have to be directly 'israel', which could not do it alone.

[HOZ]

Oh my.

I'm a sick ball of hatred? I see.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Looger

invading lebanon over and over again allows israel to destroy what little infrastructure sprouted up while they were away, and further radicalize the populace.

Nice hypocrisy Looger.

So Israel does not have the right to defend itself, but Palestine can send in suicide bombers whenever they want?

You said this..

i cannot blame people that fight back.

What do you think Israel did after Hezbollah fired rockets, killing innocent Israeli civilians?

[Looger]

hezbollah did not exist until israel invaded lebanon, and i think you should take a VERY serious look at the sequence of events last summer.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Oh my.

I'm a sick ball of hatred? I see.

Once you get by the conspiracy junk...well, its hard too sometimes, but, actually never mind.

Its hard to take someone seriously when every single post has something to do with world dominion by this group or the other group.

[Looger]

if you think it's this or that group, you will never figure it out.

it's all of them, it's none of them, and we are all helping out.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Looger

hezbollah did not exist until israel invaded lebanon, and i think you should take a VERY serious look at the sequence of events last summer.

Actually, you should take a very serious look at the timeline of events.

Simply said...

The conflict began when Hezbollah fired Katyusha rockets and mortars at Israeli military positions and border villages, diverting attention from another Hezbollah unit that crossed the border, kidnapping two Israeli soldiers and killing three others

Referenced from NYTs...

And don't give me the BS that Israel had it coming.

1982: Israel invades Lebanon to drive out the PLO's terrorist army, which had frequently attacked Israel from its informal "state-within-a-state" in southern Lebanon. Hezbollah, a *****e group inspired by the teachings and revolution of Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini, is created with the assistance of Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps. The group is called Hezbollah–or "party of God"– after initially taking responsibility for attacks under the name "Islamic Jihad." (Not to be confused with the Palestinian terror organization Islamic Jihad.)

So its Israels fault that Hezbollah was created, even those Israel was only defending itself from more terrorist attacks, something you agree with.

Oh right, you only agree with defending yourself if its against those evil Zionists, who are hell-bent on world domination. Even blowing yourself up isn't a problem.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Looger

if you think it's this or that group, you will never figure it out.

it's all of them, it's none of them, and we are all helping out.

Oh sure.

I read your argument with Rouge, and it was hard to keep my head from spinning, considering all the wacky theories you came up with.

I impressed with Rouge even having the patience to put up with it.

[Looger]

the soldiers were captured IN LEBANON.

hmmm...

whatever guys - i've stated my points.

[Azure]

Yeah I figured you'd say that.

Is Lebanon off-limits to the Israeli military?

Either way, you're drawing a thin line here to defend yourself.

[Looger]

only according to the UN and international law...

truth be told both sides kidnap soldiers constantly, crossing the border all the time.

but eh - whatever. it was a good time to escalate. and bomb civilian buildings in north lebanon, where there could not be any rocket positions.

EDIT: i'm not 'defending myself' or 'defending extremists' or any of this other crap you accuse me of!

holy moley!

i am a realist.

i know that when someone attacks someone else's civilians, that there will be consequences. it just never surprises me.

i know what i would do if someone invaded my country and occupied it - i would fight back.

it's nice to hear that you'd give in, and know your place however.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Azure

Yeah I figured you'd say that.

Is Lebanon off-limits to the Israeli military?

Either way, you're drawing a thin line here to defend yourself.

If Lebanese soldiers were "kidnapped" inside Israel, would they be justified in attacking civilian targets in Israel?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

If Lebanese soldiers were "kidnapped" inside Israel, would they be justified in attacking civilian targets in Israel?

Sure.

Kinda hard for Israel to strike back at Hezbollah when they're hiding amongst civilians. Kinda hard to not have collateral damage, actually.

[Looger]

wow... a lot of people here pretty concerned with 'blame' and 'fault'!

if you need me, i'll be over here in 'reality'.