American Politics Thread: The Hunt for Blue November

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Question: Would you like a slice of pepperoni and pineapple pizza, or would you rather eat this steaming pile of human feces?

Biden Hater: That's disgusting. Why would anyone ever put pineapple on pizza? That's just wrong and unnatural. No one should ever want pineapple on pizza.


So is pineapple on pizza great? No. But let's not lose sight of the fact that the alternative is actual human sh*t.

So you're not allowed to complain about the pineapple pizza because human #### is the alternative? What a tremendously high bar you've set.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Question: Would you like a slice of pepperoni and pineapple pizza, or would you rather eat this steaming pile of human feces?

Biden Hater: That's disgusting. Why would anyone ever put pineapple on pizza? That's just wrong and unnatural. No one should ever want pineapple on pizza.


So is pineapple on pizza great? No. But let's not lose sight of the fact that the alternative is actual human sh*t.

I'd rather just starve if those are my choices.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by rubecube

So you're not allowed to complain about the pineapple pizza because human #### is the alternative? What a tremendously high bar you've set.

It's not that...it's that you sound like an absolute lunatic prattling on about all the things you don't like about pineapple pizza while ignoring the fact that #### pizza is a billion times worse.

[Bill Bumface]

I don't think rube is saying Trump should be reelected because Biden sucks.

It's ok to say that you're holding your nose while supporting someone.

Politics has devolved to blind loyalty to your tribe, and that's damaging. Discourse and thoughtful criticism of the "side" you support is critical. Everyone shouting it down in here seems like more steps toward hollow identity politics.

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

At what point is the sheer volume of people on the streets able to overpower police doing #### like this? I keep seeing this and wondering how people haven't started swarming them.

Not sure.

From the video, it looked like the abductors had bulletproof vests on and at least one of them drew a gun, but other than some bike cops it didn’t look like anyone had in a helmet.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if someone brings a gun to the next “protest” and just starts shooting at the abductors and uses a stand-your-ground as a defense, presuming that they survive the encounter.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by rubecube

So you're not allowed to complain about the pineapple pizza because human #### is the alternative? What a tremendously high bar you've set.

I think the reason you are getting pushback on this is that on a scale of 1-10, you are really struggling to even make this a 1. This is a non issue and makes you look petty and vindictive. Biden has had some pretty decent f-ups. I recall pre corona when he kept trying to fight blue collar workers as being pretty horrible for his image. But I think it is just hard for people to take it serious when we have Trump out there with 10's every day and then you try and nitpick this relatively minor one?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by dobbles

I think the reason you are getting pushback on this is that on a scale of 1-10, you are really struggling to even make this a 1. This is a non issue and makes you look petty and vindictive. Biden has had some pretty decent f-ups. I recall pre corona when he kept trying to fight blue collar workers as being pretty horrible for his image. But I think it is just hard for people to take it serious when we have Trump out there with 10's every day and then you try and nitpick this relatively minor one?

I don't think this is a 1 though. The prospect of tying anarchism to violence will have consequences. I get that anarchists don't represent a large section of American society but it's still concerning position to hold. If he clarifies it, then fine, I'll let it go. Trying to pull the "he didn't mean it that way" prior to him clarifying it is giving him the benefit of the doubt that I don't think he deserves based on his history.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Sliver

It's not that...it's that you sound like an absolute lunatic prattling on about all the things you don't like about pineapple pizza while ignoring the fact that #### pizza is a billion times worse.

How am I ignoring the fact that Trump is worse? Two things can be bad at the same time even if one of those things is orders of magnitude worse. Does this thread really require another "orange man bad" voice in it to really drive the point home?

When I bitch about Biden it's more with the intent of "Hey, we should probably keep an eye on this when he gets elected," not "HE'S JUST AS BAD AS TRUMP!!!"

[Coach]

I'll come to Rube's defense a bit here. People are getting on him for lack of nuance, but at the same time saying that he's ignoring the s*** sandwich that is Trump. I don't think that's true and saying he's ignoring the fact that the other choice is worse is showing just as much of a lack of nuance.

You can be annoyed that he seems to latch on to Biden gaffs each and every time, like yeah, we get it. On the same token, Trump is a s*** sandwich, yeah we get it. The whole thread is basically that. Because it's true. But I think the discussion about how Biden will only perpetuate the problems that have resulted in Trump being elected is valid. Lunatic is a pretty strong word. It's lunacy to be concerned about Biden not being the solution, and in fact most definitely is not? The idea that a Presidential candidates best path to victory is to just shut up and let the other person sink themselves is not exactly inspiring. And the fact that Biden basically represents this empty gesture of "normalcy" is concerning. Do people marching in the streets want normalcy? No. Does that mean they shouldn't eat the pineapple pizza vs the s*** pizza? No. But we're allowed to poke at the faults of everyone involved in this mess.

Like do we honestly think if given the chance to vote that Rube would abstain or vote Trump? Given their posting history, I really, really doubt it. This is the American politics thread. American politics is not just Trump news. At this point, anyone taking the grand idiot seriously is beyond the point of intelligent discussion, so are we all just going to post his tweets laugh and what... thats it? That's the American politics thread? Do you really think Rube carries with him a danger of actually convincing people to NOT vote for Biden?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

The DNC fought harder against Yang and Bernie then they are against Trump.

Yeah because they wanted to win... Bernie would be losing the swing States not having a 10 point lead

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

The DNC fought harder against Yang and Bernie then they are against Trump.

No one fought against Yang, he was a complete non factor. How’d he get lumped in with Bernie?

[Senator Clay Davis]

I think the thing that annoys me the most about the "Centrists are responsible for Trump, so stop running centrists" argument is it's simply not true. Obama cause Trump, period. If Hillary won the nomination in 2008 and beat McCain, Trump never happens, and I think that's pretty much guaranteed. A black man becoming President simply sent a good portion of White America into a prolonged meltdown. It's not because of 40 years of neoliberal/neoconservative/neofromthematrix policies. It's really as simple as a black man got the top job. I can only imagine what will happen if a black progressive becomes President. Probably secession.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Coach

That's the American politics thread? Do you really think Rube carries with him a danger of actually convincing people to NOT vote for Biden?

Not rube individually, but yes. That's what happened to Hillary. She was a bad choice, Trump was a worse choice. The left were critical of both Hillary and Trump. The right was critical of only Hillary. Trump won.

As much as we want to believe politics is above it all, politics is a game. It is now, has been for a while, and might be for a while yet. The best thing to do is play the game and win it, because you can only change it from a position of power.

I get the complaining over identity politics and "my team vs your team" and all that, sure, but the current reality is that the game must be played to win. None of this is good, none of this is inspiring. But you play the cards you're dealt and you hope the next round gives you a better hand, or, better yet, you become the dealer.

I think it's naive to treat the world like you wish it was instead of how it is. I think it's fine to be critical of Biden or the Democrats, but it should also be fully recognized that it also causes people to stay home or vote Trump. It just does, that's how it works. We're not talking about educated, nuanced people here, so I think it's important to be careful with your criticism in certain situations. Enough people heard enough bad about Hillary that they started to think she was as bad or worse than Trump, or that she was unsavory enough on her own that they'd rather not vote at all. That's reality.

I just think if you refuse to play the game when it's at the finish line, because you don't think it should be a game at all, you lose. Others are playing it with or without you. Want it change? Then win.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Sliver

It's not that...it's that you sound like an absolute lunatic prattling on about all the things you don't like about pineapple pizza while ignoring the fact that #### pizza is a billion times worse.

Especially when there are 100 million morons who are more than ready to dive into the #### pizza.

You don’t start the conversation.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

It's not because of 40 years of neoliberal/neoconservative/neofromthematrix policies. It's really as simple as a black man got the top job. I can only imagine what will happen if a black progressive becomes President.

*citation needed

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by rubecube

*citation needed

Where's the citation that it's centrists? It's just our opinions ain't it? I just think another white centrist would have led to maybe Mitt Romney or Nikki Haley as President, not Trump.

[Ped]

What most people are arguing is that we shouldn't worry about holding Biden accountable until he's actually elected. The priority is getting Trump out. Everything else follows after.


I think what rube is arguing, is we need to let Biden and the DNC know now, that if he does get in, it's more of a repudiation of Trump and less actual support for Biden. It's telling them that yes, we might vote for you, but it's not because actually like you, so don't start thinking we're going to accept whatever you do or say just because you're not Trump. Being not Trump should not the bar.


The problem with the first is, it gives the DNC that feeling that "We're not Trump, so shut up and listen to us." The problem with the second is it may encourage people to not vote, which is how Trump gets back in.


Politics suck.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Where's the citation that it's centrists?

Oh it's not just centrists. Hard to say that when Republicans have controlled the government for prolonged periods, but Democrats have continually shifted to the right since the 80s and adopted what would have been considered moderate Republican economic policies (e.g. policies that favour corporations and the already wealthy at the expense of low-income and working-class Americans), which have contributed to many of the problems that many Americans are frustrated with.

The Republicans have smartly been able to use people's pre-existing prejudices to misdirect the anger many Americans have, which should be aimed at their government, towards immigrants, various minority groups, social programs, etc., but that doesn't mean the initial source of that anger isn't justified.

Calling all Trump supporters and Biden dissenters racists, Russian assests, etc., is the MSNBC equivalent of Fox News calling all Democrats socialist. It's simplistic, partisan pablum.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Ped

What most people are arguing is that we shouldn't worry about holding Biden accountable until he's actually elected. The priority is getting Trump out. Everything else follows after.

I think what rube is arguing, is we need to let Biden and the DNC know now, that if he does get in, it's more of a repudiation of Trump and less actual support for Biden. It's telling them that yes, we might vote for you, but it's not because actually like you, so don't start thinking we're going to accept whatever you do or say just because you're not Trump. Being not Trump should not the bar.

The problem with the first is, it gives the DNC that feeling that "We're not Trump, so shut up and listen to us." The problem with the second is it may encourage people to not vote, which is how Trump gets back in.

Politics suck.

In an ideal world, Biden gets in but the protests and civil unrest continues until meaningful change is enacted.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I think the thing that annoys me the most about the "Centrists are responsible for Trump, so stop running centrists" argument is it's simply not true. Obama cause Trump, period. If Hillary won the nomination in 2008 and beat McCain, Trump never happens, and I think that's pretty much guaranteed. A black man becoming President simply sent a good portion of White America into a prolonged meltdown. It's not because of 40 years of neoliberal/neoconservative/neofromthematrix policies. It's really as simple as a black man got the top job. I can only imagine what will happen if a black progressive becomes President. Probably secession.

While this is true, how many people who are angry about a Black man being President are ever a hope to vote Democrat? Multicultural America is protesting for actual government reform. White America is seeing that as a threat to them. The nomination of Biden, from a progressives perspective, sides more with the government status quo than anything else. It's not exactly a reason to be excited. No reform will happen. Massive corporate tax shelters will still be a thing. Universal healthcare will not happen. Meaningful police reform will be laughed out of the room. Incarceration rates will continue as usual. And in the end, the poor will remain purposefully disenfranchised. Because he's never said anything to contradict any of that.

The only thing it's inspiring is a bunch of people like me to seriously consider going into government to try and make real change. Which I guess is nice. But it'd be nice to feel like people who agree with, well basically the rest of the "developed" world, are not just already there, but have a meaningful voice in the conversation. Preferably THE voice in the conversation. Instead we get stories of Cornpop and the brilliant idea of shooting suspected criminals in the legs instead of the chest. Thumbs up Big Joe. Real strong stance there. Yes, he is the best chance to beat Trump, but that in itself is messed up. Its exactly the problem. Trump is NOT the problem with the US. He is the nasty, disgusting loogie America's smoker's lung is coughing up. But Biden is just another pack of cigarettes. I can't even call him a nicotine patch. America needs to go cold turkey on the mixing of money and politics (we all do really, but this is the American politics thread). THAT's the real problem. Biden's not going to fix that. Why would he? It's the reason he's even in this position in the first place. Does anyone think he's going to turn on his big dollar donors and go "hey so actually, we're going to tax you guys, you know, properly."? Or turn on police unions and actually call for meaningful justice reform? Why? Those are not things getting him elected. But they are irrefutably things the country needs.

I hope if he wins, he can listen to members of congress that are actually going to, you know, LIVE for the next 20-30 years, and not just continue to perpetuate the system that resulted in his nomination. But why would he do that? Maybe as some grand, riding off into the sunset, sort of I'm to old to GAF legacy, but I doubt it.