2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Pickle Juice]

Johnny hockey for mark stone and sign Hall.

Hall money stone
Chucky backs mangi


I’m drunk

[savardandjokinen]

Originally Posted by Pickle Juice

Johnny hockey for mark stone and sign Hall.

Hall money stone
Chucky backs mangi


I’m drunk

So drunk that Elias Lindholm disappeared

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Pickle Juice

Johnny hockey for mark stone and sign Hall.

Hall money stone
Chucky backs mangi


I’m drunk

Too much Pickle Juice?

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by savardandjokinen

So drunk that Elias Lindholm disappeared

That's pretty drunk!

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Turns out it did take about 2 weeks to get ink on paper, though IIRC there were rumblings that he was especially keen on Vegas. Stone is with Newsport...w/ or w/o OTT's permission, GMGM knew where things stood.

If you assume that it was known that Stone was likely to sign with Vegas, it meant that Vegas held all the cards. They didn’t need to value him as signed to a huge UFA contract, as everyone else valued him as a rental. Stones return was based on a rental price.


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[Poe969]

So the team that trades for Gaudreau has to at least believe they have an inside shot at re-signing him. They also have 2 years to build a relationship and start the conversation. If they don't think they can re-sign him, they can then trade him at the deadline like the sens did with Stone.

Gaudreau holds more value right now.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Ottawa was trading two months of Stone and the value was based on that.


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We can agree to disagree...I don't think it's as clear-cut as 'pure-rental' vs. 'sign&trade'. It doesn't really matter; Stone is just one of many possible comps that should be considered, and it requires more degrees of adjustment than some others.


For Gaudreau, I also don't think it's clearcut that the acquiring team will be doing so with the intention of re-signing him, especially if it happens before next summer. Teams like TBL, PIT, TOR, BOS, COL, etc. could be looking for bang for buck AAV wise, while recognizing that Gaudreau would not fit their long-term plans. These teams would also know that they can recover significant assets at the final TDL...an option that isn't really available to CGY based on his NTC.

IMO the best times to trade him were/are last TDL or next TDL.

Leaving things to next summer puts a ticking clock on the deal, which inherently reduces Flames' leverage. The common refrain of more suitors being available in the summer is fine, but they are really just tire-kickers...in the off-season, nobody feels like they are a Gaudreau away from contending enough to knock your socks off with an offer.

[Robbob]

Regarding Stone, there were a limited amount of suitors. Once Calgary opted out because he would not sign, Vegas didn't have to go all in.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Regarding Stone, there were a limited amount of suitors. Once Calgary opted out because he would not sign, Vegas didn't have to go all in.

We have no idea how that trade happened, but from what we could gather the Flames had a deal in place the night before the deadline. Maloney even mentioned it on the trade deadline ("we went to bed thinking we had a deal done"). One could speculate that Vegas upped their offer to include Brannstrom, which increased Ottawa's demand to Valimaki - and the Flames weren't willing to go down that road.

The whole "he wasn't going to sign in Calgary" is entirely based off fan speculation from when Stone said he wanted to sign in Vegas after he signed in Vegas. That's hardly confirmation he wouldn't sign in Calgary.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

We have no idea how that trade happened, but from what we could gather the Flames had a deal in place the night before the deadline. Maloney even mentioned it on the trade deadline ("we went to bed thinking we had a deal done"). One could speculate that Vegas upped their offer to include Brannstrom, which increased Ottawa's demand to Valimaki - and the Flames weren't willing to go down that road.

The whole "he wasn't going to sign in Calgary" is entirely based off fan speculation from when Stone said he wanted to sign in Vegas after he signed in Vegas. That's hardly confirmation he wouldn't sign in Calgary.

I expect if he would have signed in Calgary that Valimaki would not have held up the deal.

Trev wouldn’t include Valimaki for a rental.


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[ForeverFlameFan]

We wouldn't have been able to re-sign Stone if we did acquire him. We needed the cap space to sign Tkachuk.

I am glad we didn't throw out an 8 year deal to someone that will probably only be good for the first half of the deal.

[MrMike]

Tre talked about it as purely a rental deal and not paying a price for that. Good for him to look at it that way if there wasn't an extension ready when he came over.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

We wouldn't have been able to re-sign Stone if we did acquire him. We needed the cap space to sign Tkachuk.

I am glad we didn't throw out an 8 year deal to someone that will probably only be good for the first half of the deal.

We could have made room, we're talking about ways to sign Hall right now.

We could have moved Brodie for someone who didn't veto a trade. Hamonic could have been traded.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by MrMike

We could have made room, we're talking about ways to sign Hall right now.

We could have moved Brodie for someone who didn't veto a trade. Hamonic could have been traded.

I know, I am talking about the 2019 TDL. Trading Valimaki for a pure rental would be terrible asset management. I am glad Treliving stayed away from that. The Knights unfortunately had a ton of picks and a prospect they felt they could give away to continue to be a contending team in a weak division. Don't fault them for going for Stone, but they didn't have an upcoming RFA in Tkachuk that needed to be re-signed to a reasonable deal. Luckily, Treliving was able to complete that deal.

And I disagree with saying that we could've moved Brodie or Hamonic, we still would have needed cap space regardless. Even if you moved both we'd still need cap space. The 2019/2020 offseason wasn't good, we should've moved Frolik but we didn't.

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Tre talked about it as purely a rental deal and not paying a price for that. Good for him to look at it that way if there wasn't an extension ready when he came over.

When did he say that?

[AC]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Tre talked about it as purely a rental deal and not paying a price for that. Good for him to look at it that way if there wasn't an extension ready when he came over.

I think he said he wasn't going to pay that price if they couldn't negotiate an extension prior to making the trade.

Given the other talk that they believe they had a trade in place (Maloney), and everything that's come out since that Stone was only interested in signing with Vegas, I think the most logical explanation is that the teams had a trade agreement but when it came to negotiation an extension Stone and his agent said they wouldn't negotiate with the Flames so things fell apart from there.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by AC

I think he said he wasn't going to pay that price if they couldn't negotiate an extension prior to making the trade.

Given the other talk that they believe they had a trade in place (Maloney), and everything that's come out since that Stone was only interested in signing with Vegas, I think the most logical explanation is that the teams had a trade agreement but when it came to negotiation an extension Stone and his agent said they wouldn't negotiate with the Flames so things fell apart from there.

I never heard this.
I believe the Flames just balked at the revised price at the last second (after Vegas upped their offer).

[bubbsy]

If this Robertson kid in Toronto shows he's ready to make the big club going into next season, they'll need to make space for him in the top 6.

I wonder if a deal could be made around nylander for Hanafin?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

If this Robertson kid in Toronto shows he's ready to make the big club going into next season, they'll need to make space for him in the top 6.

I wonder if a deal could be made around nylander for Hanafin?

Flames are likely losing Hamonic and Brodie to free agency and then trading Hanifin for a forward?

Maybe it makes sense if Johnny is moved with a Dman coming back the other way? Otherwise they Flames can’t afford to move Hanifin

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Poe969

So the team that trades for Gaudreau has to at least believe they have an inside shot at re-signing him. They also have 2 years to build a relationship and start the conversation. If they don't think they can re-sign him, they can then trade him at the deadline like the sens did with Stone.

Gaudreau holds more value right now.

This is the key thing, the team can still bail out and recoup some good assets. Similar to what Ottawa did with Duchene.

On 22 February 2019, Duchene was traded (along with Julius Bergman) to the Columbus Blue Jackets in exchange for prospects Vitalii Abramov, Jonathan Davidsson and a conditional first-round draft pick in both 2019 and 2020.

... daaaamnn. Pretty good. Duchene is no Gaudreau.