2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Harry Lime]

Wasn't that considered a pretty big steal by Columbus?

[Jacks]

If you sign Hall (still not totally convinced we should) then one of the main reasons you are trading Gaudreau is for cap space. Taking back a JVR or Voracek defeats the purpose, might as well just keep Gaudreau. I'd look more to a team that has cap space to spare, maybe target Palmieri with a bit of retention and a pick.


Tkachuk - Lindholm - Palmieri
Hall - Monahan - Mangiapane
x - Backlund - x
x - Ryan - x
Would be pretty solid and balanced if they can make the cap work.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Wasn't that considered a pretty big steal by Columbus?

It happened at the draft...certainly possible that there were better deals in the table, but maybe not what CHI was looking for?

I think the expectation for Panarin’s next season was probably anywhere between 50-100pts (70-85 most likely)...could probably say the same for Gaudreau right now.


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[Roof-Daddy]

Word out there is Palmieri has all Canadian teams on his no trade list.

Hes also a near 30 year old with only a year left on his deal, so that better be one hell of a pick attached.

[Roof-Daddy]

IIRC a big part of that Panarin trade was to get Saad back because they really thought he was a good fit, I think it was reported that it might have even been driven by their core group of players.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Jacks

If you sign Hall (still not totally convinced we should) then one of the main reasons you are trading Gaudreau is for cap space. Taking back a JVR or Voracek defeats the purpose, might as well just keep Gaudreau. I'd look more to a team that has cap space to spare, maybe target Palmieri with a bit of retention and a pick.


Tkachuk - Lindholm - Palmieri
Hall - Monahan - Mangiapane
x - Backlund - x
x - Ryan - x
Would be pretty solid and balanced if they can make the cap work.

Palmieri is a 30 yr old, 45-50 pt player who is a UFA after next season.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Wasn't that considered a pretty big steal by Columbus?

No kidding...what does one of the worst trades in recent memory have to do with trading Gaudreau with 2 years left on his contract. Also, Gaudreau is far more established than Panarin was...many thought he was just a product of Kane. We know Gaudreau can carry a team offensively.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

IIRC a big part of that Panarin trade was to get Saad back because they really thought he was a good fit, I think it was reported that it might have even been driven by their core group of players.

I heard that too-Toews, Keith and a few others wanted him back. Saad had really great chemistry in his first go-round with a few guys on the Hawks. I still wouldn't have given up Panarin for him though, his chemistry with Kane far outweighed anything Saad can do.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by timbit

Palmieri is a 30 yr old, 45-50 pt player who is a UFA after next season.

When he's healthy he's a 55pt near 30 goal scorer.

[TheScorpion]

Palmieri screams James Neal to me... do not want.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

When he's healthy he's a 55pt near 30 goal scorer.

The operative word is “when”!

[Sandman]

Palmieri is a guy who seems like he's about to take a nosedive going forward into his 30's. Just my opinion.....

[Jacks]

Palmieri had one season where he missed significant time, hardly a band aid boy. Guy is a very consistent 25-30 goal RH RW, you guys make him sound like garbage. Regardless, that was just an example of filling a team need and creating cap space. I think people are going to be underwhelmed with Gaudreau's return if he gets traded, cap space is a commodity that we don't have and that will factor in to his value.

[timbit]

Palmieri, with his age, production, contract length, and injury history is an awful key component in a Gaudreau trade.

[TheScorpion]

^ That, basically. He's a fine player to have right now but I can't help but wonder if an aging one-dimensional winger is really a great fit for Calgary's system. They tried it with Neal. They tried it with Brouwer. They tried it with Raymond. None of them worked. At this point I'd like to see the Flames try adding younger and perhaps less proven talent instead of putting a ton of value into guys who have already had their best years.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Palmieri had one season where he missed significant time, hardly a band aid boy. Guy is a very consistent 25-30 goal RH RW, you guys make him sound like garbage. Regardless, that was just an example of filling a team need and creating cap space. I think people are going to be underwhelmed with Gaudreau's return if he gets traded, cap space is a commodity that we don't have and that will factor in to his value.

Cmon....he’s scored over 25 goals 3 times in his career. Is that consistent?

[powderjunkie]

The point is that the team trading the better player rarely 'wins' the deal on paper. If every deal that is remotely comparable seems like a fleecing, then that just tells you what the market actually is.

We can come up with myriad reasons why Johnny is different, but the return for pretty much every good-very good winger has been pretty underwhelming in recent years:
Panarin/Pacioretty/Stone (as recently discussed)
Duchene (hybrid)
Skinner
Eberle
Kessel (coming off really strong years in PIT)
Tatar (to VGK)
Hall
Saad v1.0
Kessel (from TOR)

Aside from Kessel/Stone/Panarin, it's interesting to note that nearly all of the guys above were traded after a down season.

Gaudreau is better than all of the guys above, but not by as much as we'd like to think in many cases. Johnny's return would be better, but not that much better.

More importantly, the non-existence of any trades involving players closer to Johnny's calibre is simply indicative that other teams are not willing to 'overpay' for a single player anymore. So, you either hold on to your player while clinging to false hope, chase some magic beans, or resign yourself to a player downgrade that you think fits your roster (and or cap situation) better.

Of course you can hold on until the last TDL and recover what you can then, but IMO that is clinging to false hope while wasting prime years of Tkachuk/Lindholm/Monahan/Gio on good contracts. Then again, we are heading in to a crapshoot tournament, so our odds are as good as they will ever be.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

^ That, basically. He's a fine player to have right now but I can't help but wonder if an aging one-dimensional winger is really a great fit for Calgary's system. They tried it with Neal. They tried it with Brouwer. They tried it with Raymond. None of them worked. At this point I'd like to see the Flames try adding younger and perhaps less proven talent instead of putting a ton of value into guys who have already had their best years.

Go back to the well in Carolina and get Martin Necas.

Right shot RW/C who was on oace for 20g and 44 points as a 21 year old rookie. He's on his ELC though for two more years and is expansion exempt, so there is a good chance he isn't even available, but maybe they would let him go for Johnny IF they were confident they could get Gaudreau to sign an extension (Carolina isn't very far from home for JG)

Probably have to take Nino back for cap reasons, and maybe we could also get a young NHL ready dman back too, like Bean or Fleury. Carolina really hordes the D.

Its one of the better ideas I've seen on here for a Johnny trade to be honest. Cant remember who first suggested it.

If the Flames can then sign Hall, look to flip Nino for another asset later in the off season.

Or just keep Nino. That'd be a deep line up.

[TheScorpion]

I love Necas, would be all over him if he's available.

Nino, Necas, and Bean would be a great haul.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I love Necas, would be all over him if he's available.

Nino, Necas, and Bean would be a great haul.

Hall - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Necas
Mangiapane - Ryan - Niederreiter
Lucic - Gawdin - Dube

Deep forward group. Trade Bennett for Madison Bowey or someone similar...

Giordano - Andersson
Hanifin - Bowey
Valimaki - Bean