American Politics Thread: The Hunt for Blue November

[Thor]

I don't know how or why you would be respectful of people wearing Nazi masks. If anything I think the camera guy and those around them are being rather calm considering how utterly disgusting it is wearing that.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I married into a Jewish family. I only have a couple things to say about this:

I wish I had enough time to type how much this image hurts and causes great anguish in the Jewish community. There's enough books written on this, so I won't waste your time. Suffice to say, it is more unthinkable than a noose hanging in the garage of a black driver, or someone walking around in a white pointed hood. It is truly the most evil symbol in all of human history, and that's saying something. I cannot fathom how someone could be so obtuse as to think it was acceptable to wear that in public, even as a political statement.

Secondly, America used to be a haven for Jews driven out of Europe, especially in the mid 20th century. Now it has become equally inhospitable, with anti-semitic attacks on the rise across America. What has happened to the soul of this nation?

Brandishing a symbol of unthinkable genocide is just so far beyond the pale I can't even get my head around it. I don't know what to think of people anymore.

Somebody, please feel free to talk me down. I'm pretty ####ing pissed right now.

I'm not a wordsmith, but this may help:

(Violence)

NSFW!

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by Thor

I don't know how or why you would be respectful of people wearing Nazi masks. If anything I think the camera guy and those around them are being rather calm considering how utterly disgusting it is wearing that.

I can't believe I am having to defend the nazi people here, but as I posted above, perhaps because those people don't understand the implications of what they are doing?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Thor

I don't know how or why you would be respectful of people wearing Nazi masks. If anything I think the camera guy and those around them are being rather calm considering how utterly disgusting it is wearing that.

Kind of exactly this.
These people fall into one of two categories:
1) they are actual nazis and are wearing the masks for that reason
2) they think being forced to wear a mask is on the level of nazi totalitarianism and are wearing them as a protest (this seems like it's their explanation)

Neither of those positions are people that can be reasoned with. In both situations they are ignorant idiots who won't listen to any sort of reason, with the cherry on top of #1 being they are also racist pieces of garbage. Though I'd be willing to guess that there is actually a lot of overlap in the Venn diagram of people who fall into category 2 above, and racist pieces of garbage.

[Kybosh]

Honestly, when someone wears a Nazi swastika they have forfeited any right to calm rational conversation.

[Fuzz]

"I think we should stop and listen to what the Nazis have to say" is not a position I thought I'd be reading here...

[OMG!WTF!]

To me they're clearly older people in cognitive decline. They've drunk a dangerous amount of kool aid and have no idea what they're really doing. It's sad, pathetic, kind of funny. But I really don't think they have the ability to reason themselves into a more sane position. If you want to start whaling on 25 year old skinheads by all means...have at it.

[Huntingwhale]

Yeah, walking out in a public store with a giant f'ing swastika on your face makes you a giant POS. Frankly who cares what their reasoning is. People like that are beyond uninformed or misguided. Like common. We all have the internet and most of us know the history or Nazism and the horrors it brought. I don't need to go to Walmart to be educated on the topic.

The very last thing I would do is give them a chance to explain or try to reason with them. The world is full of giant POS who are well beyond reasoning and those people belong in that group.

Saying the camera man should have shut up and listened, as if he is was the issue, is just...wtf. Give your head a shake.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

You guys sure have managed to draw a lot of conclusions about the mental state of two people you've never met and whether it's possible to reason with them. Maybe you're right, maybe they're totally beyond talking to, I just don't know how you can draw those sorts of assumptions about them from a twitter video.

There are former dedicated, devoted KKK members who have been de-radicalized, and that seems like it would be a much taller hill to climb than convincing a couple of senior citizens that wearing swastika masks isn't something they should be doing.

[getbak]

They somehow had access to swastika flags to wear as masks in the first place. That's a big red flag to begin with.

Even if that was a political statement I wanted to make on a whim, I couldn't because I don't have Nazi flags just lying around.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

You guys sure have managed to draw a lot of conclusions about the mental state of two people you've never met and whether it's possible to reason with them. Maybe you're right, maybe they're totally beyond talking to, I just don't know how you can draw those sorts of assumptions about them from a twitter video.

But that's all there is. That's all we get in the majority of our interactions with strangers. It's what people do, have always done and will always do. Looking back on these moments, just about everyone thinks of what they should have said in the heat of the moment and wishes they could go back and say some more choice words.



It's also a pretty common now to hear that if Trump loses Biden will turn America into a socialist utopia. Then a fascist colony where everyone does what they're told and Americans are no longer free. These guys have obviously been watching "the" Fox News as the narrator suggests and likely following all the fake news emails spreading around these types of people. It's not a hard call to make.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

But that's all there is. That's all we get in the majority of our interactions with strangers. It's what people do, have always done and will always do.

I guess my comments about writing people off apply to most interactions with strangers, then? This is obviously a pretty extreme example, as most interactions with strangers don't involve swastika-adorned clothing.

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

These guys have obviously been watching "the" Fox News as the narrator suggests and likely following all the fake news emails spreading around these types of people. It's not a hard call to make.

You have literally no idea if any of this is true. You've basically caricatured them. It's not like I'm trying to justify wearing a swastika mask or anything, as my previous post should make clear. I just don't think it makes any sense to try to draw conclusions about what led them to that behaviour or whether or not they're just a lost cause. I would think you'd need to at least meet someone to be able to confidently figure that sort of thing out. Not that it matters, I couldn't care less about those two, but the tendency to sort people into boxes and assume you know all about them despite having basically no information to go on is just strange to me.

[Nufy]

Originally Posted by getbak

They somehow had access to swastika flags to wear as masks in the first place. That's a big red flag to begin with.

Even if that was a political statement I wanted to make on a whim, I couldn't because I don't have Nazi flags just lying around.

Yeah...thats the part I don't get..

1. They already had Nazi masks...and chose to use them...

2. They went and intentionally bought Nazi masks to use...

3. They kinda look home made...but why the f%^K would you intentionally make a Nazi / Swastika mask...


Zero sympathy / understanding from me.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

You have literally no idea if any of this is true. You've basically caricatured them. It's not like I'm trying to justify wearing a swastika mask or anything, as my previous post should make clear. I just don't think it makes any sense to try to draw conclusions about what led them to that behaviour or whether or not they're just a lost cause. I would think you'd need to at least meet someone to be able to confidently figure that sort of thing out. Not that it matters, I couldn't care less about those two, but the tendency to sort people into boxes and assume you know all about them despite having basically no information to go on is just strange to me.

There's lots of info. The guy is wearing a Trump shirt. The woman is literally saying that they're wearing the swastika as a warning of what will happen in Biden's America. And then there is a swarm of right wing propaganda suggesting Biden is a Nazi. Trump himself compares the US intelligence to Nazis on a number of occasions. It's what wackadoodle right wings Trump supporters think. They literally think they're doing you a service by wearing a swastika and warning you of what's to come. This is what people who have lost the ability to think are doing.

[Looch City]

First impressions go a long way. If I saw someone flying a Nazi flag/attire, I would immediately assume they're the scummiest of all scums. It's up to them to prove it otherwise.

[ResAlien]

Boy if you guys are going to insist on using people’s observable actions and choices to make inferences about their intentions and stances how will the marketplace of ideas function? Reasonable doubt for those adorned in Nazi paraphernalia, vilification for the “radical left”. Get it together already.

[jammies]

It's what humans do, try to ascertain the motivations of others by observing their behaviour, and try to discern patterns from incomplete information. So, if you don't want to be judged for a single act of Nazi mask art, don't indulge in hitlerface.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

That's not lots of info. It's a sentence from a twitter video. Yet you seem absolutely certain about your judgments about what led these people to do this. That doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, there's plenty of evidence that they're doing a ####ty thing, there's just basically none about why they're doing it or who they are as people.

Look, it's not worth having a big debate over, I just find it very odd how sure everyone is that two specific individuals they've never met are a total lost cause and couldn't possibly be reasoned with, despite plenty of evidence that even people with very extreme viewpoints can be brought around. The level of immediate certainty people can justify is surprising to me.

EDIT: I guess surprising is the wrong word there. More like jarring enough I thought it was worthy of mention.

[JohnnyB]

Although they're wearing swastikas, they actually seem to be anti-nazi in their intent. It would be like someone on the left putting a swastika on a MAGA hat as a political statement to express that MAGA hats are symbols of the rise of fascism. They're just trying to communicate that being required to wear masks is fascist, and they don't like fascism or nazism.

It's a pretty poor way of communicating that sentiment, and the sentiment is also pretty dumb, but I agree with others that it doesn't make them nazi supporters. Are they wackos? Yes, but not the nazi kind of wacko, at least not based on what's in this video.

The crazy #### they believe is part of what's walking America quickly down the path to fascism, but they almost certainly believe the opposite.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

That's not lots of info. It's a sentence from a twitter video. Yet you seem absolutely certain about your judgments about what led these people to do this. That doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, there's plenty of evidence that they're doing a ####ty thing, there's just basically none about why they're doing it or who they are as people.

Look, it's not worth having a big debate over, I just find it very odd how sure everyone is that two specific individuals they've never met are a total lost cause and couldn't possibly be reasoned with, despite plenty of evidence that even people with very extreme viewpoints can be brought around. The level of immediate certainty people can justify is surprising to me.

EDIT: I guess surprising is the wrong word there. More like jarring enough I thought it was worthy of mention.

This kind of stance is fine for when someone makes a racist joke at a party. Not for when you see two people wearing swastikas on their faces at Walmart.