Practice notes July 20. Groups split into Main and taxi squads.

[Wastedyouth]

I want Bennett to succeed. I just don't think he is the player we hoped he would be, or that the Flames thought they drafted.

[TheScorpion]

A big part of the reason the Flames were so good last year is they had four centres all scoring big points:

Monahan 34/82
Backlund 21/47
Jankowski 14/32
Ryan 13/38

Ryan is definitely a middle-six centre. But putting that kind of player on your fourth line isn't a bad thing at all, especially when you have big and tough guys with good speed and hands to surround him with. That's why I want Buddy Robinson and Zac Rinaldo to play with him... I think that would decently emulate last year's very effective fourth line.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I'm not sure Lucic is the right fit for that line. He wasn't really that good this year. I'd rather put more speed there, someone like Czarnik opposite Dube.

To be fair he had the third best Goals Above Replacement on the team this year (3rd in defensive GAR, 5th in offensive) as well as solid possession numbers.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Which is something that the coaches appear willing to do in the early-going. We will see what happens, but I have no doubt that if Bennett is moved back down to line #4, and if Ryan is put back together with his regular line mates, there will be no shortage of posters here bemoaning his poor treatment.

For what it is worth, in the little bits of highlights from yesterday's scrimmage I saw Ryan looked very good—even while playing with "scrubs."

That's exactly the reason we should be keeping Bennett at 3C, because he hasn't looked good with those same scrubs but has looked good with Dube and Lucic

[Bingo]

I just don't see Czarnik in the mix without a few injuries.

He likely won't play another game as a Flame.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by BigErnSalute_16

I have to admit I thought it was a couple more than two games that Ryan was hurt but still we shouldn't discount what we are seeing just because it has been a couple scrimmages and a couple regular season games. He has looked good in that role. Worth trying it out, especially if that means we see Ryan giving a boost to the 4th line.

Is anyone discounting what is happening? I see a group of posters who are cautiously optimistic, but also sceptical about what we are seeing. I see another group of posters who are already convinced after only two scrimmages. If anything, I think more are guilty of getting ahead of ourselves.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Spoiler!

Mangiapane deserves the opportunity he got, but I think there is an argument to say that Bennett deserves the same opportunity.

Bennett hasn't lived up to his draft hype, but he's also had very limited playing time with any of Calgary's top three centers (Monahan, Backlund, Ryan) over the last 2 seasons.

Bennett+Monahan:
TOI- 104 Minutes
GF%: 20.0%
xGF: 43.5%
SH%: 2.27%
SV%: .935

That pairing hasn't worked and has rightly been used sparingly.

Bennett+Backlund:
TOI-344 Minutes
GF%: 58.1%
xGF: 53.8%
SH%: 8.49%
SV%: .928

Those are pretty good numbers, but Bennett hasn't gotten consistent time with Backlund.

Bennett+Ryan:
TOI: 305 Minutes
GF%: 60.9%
xGF%: 54.7%
SH%: 8.59%
SV%: .938

Great numbers on a line with Ryan too, but once again only limited minutes.

Instead Bennett has mostly been used on a line with Janko/Spare Parts and not one of the Flames top 3 centers.

Bennett w/o Monahan,Ryan,Backlund
TOI: 620 Minutes
GF%: 38.3%
xGF%: 53.2%
SH%: 6.12%
SV%: .907

So Bennett has been bad with Monahan but has had great results when he's been on the wing of either Ryan or Backlund. And even then he's been able to put up good advanced stats way from any of the Flames top 3 centers (53.2% xGF%) but has ran into a PDO bender that has hurt his counting stats (.968 PDO on a lower shooting percentage which isn't surprising play with 4th liners).

With all of this considered Bennett still has the third best xGF of all Regular Flames Forwards still on the Roster. The biggest problem for him is it happens to be behind two other primary LWs.

1) Mangiapane - 55.3% xGF%
2) Tkachuk - 53.4% xGF%
3) Bennett - 52.9% xGF%

And he has the second lowest on ice shooting percentage of all the regular forwards in that time.

1) Jankowski - 6.15%
2) Bennett - 7.01%

Honestly Bennett is still a guy that is ready and primed to break out if he moves to a team with more opportunity IMO. He really hasn't had that chance with top linemates in Calgary, and even then he's put up good advanced stats that have been undone by Shooting/Save Percentage.

Let's look at the same type of exercise for Mangiapane for example:

He's played pretty much nothing with Monahan, so we will leave that one out.

Mangiapane+Backlund:
TOI-440 Minutes
GF%: 58.1%
xGF: 53.02%
SH%: 9.88%
SV%: .914

So very similar GF% and expected GF% numbers to what Bennett put up on Backlund's wing.

Mangiapane+Ryan:
TOI: 380 Minutes
GF%: 73.5%
xGF%: 58.9%
SH%: 12.0%
SV%: .939

Not sure why these two were ever split up, just dominant together.

Mangiapane w/o Monahan,Ryan,Backlund
TOI: 438 Minutes
GF%: 43%
xGF%: 55.6%
SH%: 7.4%
SV%: .907

Once again similar results to Bennett. Where the xGF% remained strong but the Shooting and Save percentage drop off when playing with lesser linemates on the 4th line.

Honestly think the Flames don't seem to lose much between Mangiapane/Bennett with Backlund on the second line, but Ryan and Mangiapane have undeniable chemistry and dominate together.

IMO the Flames have three pairs of forwards that just work better together: Gaudreau+Monahan, Tkachuk+Backlund, Ryan+Mangiapane, and they should build the top 9 around those three pairings. Personally I'd like to see them start the playoffs with this top 9:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Bennett
Lucic - Ryan - Mangiapane
Dube - Jankowski - Gawdin

IMO Ryan is wasted as 4th line center and needs to remain in the top 9. Then you have Dube as a dark horse on line 4, and ready to step up in the lineup where needed. And honestly I'd like to see Gawdin or Phillips get a chance here too over a guy like Reider on the 4th line. Let's go with a younger 4th line, with three guys that have lots to prove coming out of this break. Gawdin had a great AHL season, and puts another sorely needed RH shot in the lineup as well.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I just don't see Czarnik in the mix without a few injuries.

He likely won't play another game as a Flame.

Agreed. They have every reason to want him to succeed at the NHL level but they just haven't seen it. It was certainly worth a shot.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Let's look at the same type of exercise for Mangiapane for example:

He's played pretty much nothing with Monahan, so we will leave that one out.

Mangiapane+Backlund:
TOI-440 Minutes
GF%: 58.1%
xGF: 53.02%
SH%: 9.88%
SV%: .914

So very similar GF% and expected GF% numbers to what Bennett put up on Backlund's wing.

Mangiapane+Ryan:
TOI: 380 Minutes
GF%: 73.5%
xGF%: 58.9%
SH%: 12.0%
SV%: .939

Not sure why these two were ever split up, just dominant together.

Mangiapane w/o Monahan,Ryan,Backlund
TOI: 438 Minutes
GF%: 43%
xGF%: 55.6%
SH%: 7.4%
SV%: .907

Once again similar results to Bennett. Where the xGF% remained strong but the Shooting and Save percentage drop off when playing with lesser linemates on the 4th line.

Honestly think the Flames don't seem to lose much between Mangiapane/Bennett with Backlund on the second line, but Ryan and Mangiapane have undeniable chemistry and dominate together.

IMO the Flames have three pairs of forwards that just work better together: Gaudreau+Monahan, Tkachuk+Backlund, Ryan+Mangiapane, and they should build the top 9 around those three pairings. Personally I'd like to see them start the playoffs with this top 9:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Bennett
Lucic - Ryan - Mangiapane
Dube - Jankowski - Gawdin

IMO Ryan is wasted as 4th line center and needs to remain in the top 9. Then you have Dube as a dark horse on line 4, and ready to step up in the lineup where needed. And honestly I'd like to see Gawdin or Phillips get a chance here too over a guy like Reider on the 4th line. Let's go with a younger 4th line, with three guys that have lots to prove coming out of this break. Gawdin had a great AHL season, and puts another sorely needed RH shot in the lineup as well.

I realize the coaches have all these numbers. But this all just makes too much sense. Well done sir. I'm sold.

[djsFlames]

Don't understand blocking Czarnik from the NHL club. Was scoring before he got injured, went on a tear with the Heat. Why are we writing him off while Rinaldo and Robinson are getting reps up here? Those guys are good characters but Czarnik showed more on the skill front and ability to produce is something we need more of in the bottom six. Why is the assumption that he has developed as far as he can?

[FlamesLitSquad]

Agreed, just play who is hot. Czarnik looked good with Chucky as well. If we go with the above pairs we can spread some scoring out.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Let's look at the same type of exercise for Mangiapane for example:

He's played pretty much nothing with Monahan, so we will leave that one out.

Mangiapane+Backlund:
TOI-440 Minutes
GF%: 58.1%
xGF: 53.02%
SH%: 9.88%
SV%: .914

So very similar GF% and expected GF% numbers to what Bennett put up on Backlund's wing.

Mangiapane+Ryan:
TOI: 380 Minutes
GF%: 73.5%
xGF%: 58.9%
SH%: 12.0%
SV%: .939

Not sure why these two were ever split up, just dominant together.

Mangiapane w/o Monahan,Ryan,Backlund
TOI: 438 Minutes
GF%: 43%
xGF%: 55.6%
SH%: 7.4%
SV%: .907

Once again similar results to Bennett. Where the xGF% remained strong but the Shooting and Save percentage drop off when playing with lesser linemates on the 4th line.

Honestly think the Flames don't seem to lose much between Mangiapane/Bennett with Backlund on the second line, but Ryan and Mangiapane have undeniable chemistry and dominate together.

IMO the Flames have three pairs of forwards that just work better together: Gaudreau+Monahan, Tkachuk+Backlund, Ryan+Mangiapane, and they should build the top 9 around those three pairings. Personally I'd like to see them start the playoffs with this top 9:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Bennett
Lucic - Ryan - Mangiapane
Dube - Jankowski - Gawdin

IMO Ryan is wasted as 4th line center and needs to remain in the top 9. Then you have Dube as a dark horse on line 4, and ready to step up in the lineup where needed. And honestly I'd like to see Gawdin or Phillips get a chance here too over a guy like Reider on the 4th line. Let's go with a younger 4th line, with three guys that have lots to prove coming out of this break. Gawdin had a great AHL season, and puts another sorely needed RH shot in the lineup as well.

I don’t mind this but I think I’d prefer Dube in the top 9 over Lucic.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Let's look at the same type of exercise for Mangiapane for example:

He's played pretty much nothing with Monahan, so we will leave that one out.

Mangiapane+Backlund:
TOI-440 Minutes
GF%: 58.1%
xGF: 53.02%
SH%: 9.88%
SV%: .914

So very similar GF% and expected GF% numbers to what Bennett put up on Backlund's wing.

Mangiapane+Ryan:
TOI: 380 Minutes
GF%: 73.5%
xGF%: 58.9%
SH%: 12.0%
SV%: .939

Not sure why these two were ever split up, just dominant together.

Mangiapane w/o Monahan,Ryan,Backlund
TOI: 438 Minutes
GF%: 43%
xGF%: 55.6%
SH%: 7.4%
SV%: .907

Once again similar results to Bennett. Where the xGF% remained strong but the Shooting and Save percentage drop off when playing with lesser linemates on the 4th line.

Honestly think the Flames don't seem to lose much between Mangiapane/Bennett with Backlund on the second line, but Ryan and Mangiapane have undeniable chemistry and dominate together.

IMO the Flames have three pairs of forwards that just work better together: Gaudreau+Monahan, Tkachuk+Backlund, Ryan+Mangiapane, and they should build the top 9 around those three pairings. Personally I'd like to see them start the playoffs with this top 9:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Bennett
Lucic - Ryan - Mangiapane
Dube - Jankowski - Gawdin

IMO Ryan is wasted as 4th line center and needs to remain in the top 9. Then you have Dube as a dark horse on line 4, and ready to step up in the lineup where needed. And honestly I'd like to see Gawdin or Phillips get a chance here too over a guy like Reider on the 4th line. Let's go with a younger 4th line, with three guys that have lots to prove coming out of this break. Gawdin had a great AHL season, and puts another sorely needed RH shot in the lineup as well.

You do make a lot of good points here, but that 4th line looks terrible especially vs Jets matchup. You might as well just roll 3 lines

[Toonage]

I'm a little surprised Bennett-Jankowski-Czarnik aren't likely to get a look as the 4L. Thought they did well as a trio. Weird that the Flames seem so intent on not playing Czarnik given how hard they went after him initially, and having done their homework knew full well what they would be getting.

[GioforPM]

I’m wondering if they figure they can’t play Bennett at RW. Some guys can do it but his puck protection isn’t a strong suit and he can’t put the the puck between his body and the boards on RW.

Czarnik, I think the Flames figured he’d blossom with some regular ice time but then found out what the previous teams did - he’s just not a consistent guy for the NHL. He’s shown he can play in tough areas, but he doesn’t do it much (compare to Dube or Mangi).

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I'm a little surprised Bennett-Jankowski-Czarnik aren't likely to get a look as the 4L. Thought they did well as a trio. Weird that the Flames seem so intent on not playing Czarnik given how hard they went after him initially, and having done their homework knew full well what they would be getting.

yes it's a little perplexing. Is he that bad defensively perhaps? I don't recall him being much of a liability, or he's just not strong enough on the puck...

[CsInMyBlood]

Oh Sam Bennett. Same thing happens every "offseason". People believing he is something he isn't and trying to sell that he just hasnt been given a chance although he has been given many.

Then the games get played and its once again instantly obvious he cannot hang with good players because he doesnt have the IQ, two way play or vision. Not to mention his momentum killing penalties in the O zone.

Put it this way, the coaching staff pours over every game, every shift over and over again. They want to win more than you do. Multiple coaches, same thing. There is a reason Sam Bennett doesnt get more icetime. Because he continually shows that he does not deserve it.

[AC]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Oh Sam Bennett. Same thing happens every "offseason". People believing he is something he isn't and trying to sell that he just hasnt been given a chance although he has been given many.

Then the games get played and its once again instantly obvious he cannot hang with good players because he doesnt have the IQ, two way play or vision. Not to mention his momentum killing penalties in the O zone.

Put it this way, the coaching staff pours over every game, every shift over and over again. They want to win more than you do. Multiple coaches, same thing. There is a reason Sam Bennett doesnt get more icetime. Because he continually shows that he does not deserve it.

And yet come the playoffs he's a different player. Even Geoff Ward said as much.

“First and foremost, I thought his compete level was excellent,” said Flames interim coach Geoff Ward, reflecting on Bennett’s showing against the Avs last spring. “I thought he was a guy that really battled. I thought he made a lot happen when he was on the ice. I really felt like he brought a game that you want to bring at playoff time. So for us, he was a bright spot last year, for sure, in the playoffs.

“And he has a history. He has a history of being a good playoff performer, and we don’t expect that it will be any different this time around. He’s a guy who takes an awful lot of pride in being able to play well at this time of year, and his history shows that he follows through on it.”

Hence the enigma that is Sam Bennett. If Bennett can click with Dube and Lucic then it has all the makings of a great 3rd line in the playoffs.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by AC

Hence the enigma that is Sam Bennett. If Bennett can click with Dube and Lucic then it has all the makings of a great 3rd line in the playoffs.

If Lucic - Bennett - Dube takes off, that would be just the boost the tam needs to 'fill' the roster and provide the depth that a team needs to go deep.

If Bennett is driving the 3rd line (successfully) and Ryan is the 4th line C, the team is in GREAT shape.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by AC

And yet come the playoffs he's a different player. Even Geoff Ward said as much.



Hence the enigma that is Sam Bennett. If Bennett can click with Dube and Lucic then it has all the makings of a great 3rd line in the playoffs.

Well to that point, he isn't. He's just been rather lucky in a quite small sample size.

And to follow that up, if he can turn it up in the playoffs, then that just adds to the fact that it's the kids fault he isn't having success.

If he wants to get to that next level, he needs to play at that next level.