[News] Hamonic opts out of Return to Play

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I have stated many times that I respect Hamonic's decision? Full stop.

I disagree with posters who claim players are taking a "very significant risk of taking the virus home" but mostly I disagree with the arrogance and presumption behind stating whether we agree or disagree with another human being's personal decision about these matters.

I believe I have adequate reading comprehension and don't think I am guilty of the mischaracterization of which you are accusing me. But could you help me? Could you have a career goal that is important enough to you that it is worth more than a non zero risk to your health? Or your family's well being? For this argument, I believe that money does not equal career because I don't like the "how much money is enough" path. And regardless of your answer, if someone were willing to accept more risk than you does that equate to "soulless"?

No one said this. Greater risk is not the same as very significant risk.

And of course you could have a career goal that is important enough to you to be worth more than a non zero risk to your health. Again no one said the opposite. You have a tendency to take opposing arguments and make them absolute so that you can refute them.

[dino7c]

Hamonic is one of very few players opting out and likely the one with the biggest role/tenure with his club. Can't really be butthurt because people are discussing it on a Calgary Flames message board.

[djsFlames]

Bigger deal being made of this than needs to be.

The top 4 was better after he went down. We have a ton of depth to handle the loss, and Andersson taking that spot full time just seems like the natural progression of things.

Hanifin-Hamonic was an awful pairing. It didn't work. Good riddance (not to hammer but the pairing combo).

[AC]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Bigger deal being made of this than needs to be.

The top 4 was better after he went down. We have a ton of depth to handle the loss, and Andersson taking that spot full time just seems like the natural progression of things.

Hanifin-Hamonic was an awful pairing. It didn't work. Good riddance (not to hammer but the pairing combo).

I don't disagree, but this view could be shortsighted if the team sees an injury or 2 on the backend.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

yes

there is a non-zero chance that he is exposed while in the bubble, in fact a pretty significant risk (already multiple positive tests in more than one camp) and then a very significant risk that he takes that exposure home

If you had small children with health issues, you would understand. If you don't, I can see not understanding, or being more inclined to casually dismiss that risk.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

What do you mean "what's the process"?... you either need the money, or you don't, I'm not the one deciding. The situation was if you didn't need the money.

And yeah, honestly, anything above 0% and I'm not working if I don't need the money, the contract is going to be up anyway, and the people I work for are giving me the choice. Because, thing is, it could be a 0.05% increased risk of catching it and spreading it... it could also be a 15% increase, or 50% increase. It's not like there's any data the NHL can trot out that shows the exact risk level, you just know it's higher than average or, at very least, out of your control.

Are you suggesting you'd go to work, even if you didn't need the money and were told you didn't have to, despite an increased risk for your family catching a deadly disease? What percentage risk increase of that happening would you find acceptable?

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I have stated many times that I respect Hamonic's decision? Full stop.

I disagree with posters who claim players are taking "a very significant risk of taking the virus home" but mostly I disagree with the arrogance and presumption behind stating whether we agree or disagree with another human being's personal decision about these matters.

I believe I have adequate reading comprehension and don't think I am guilty of the mischaracterization of which you are accusing me. But could you help me? Could you have a career goal that is important enough to you that it is worth more than a non zero risk to your health? Or your family's well being? For this argument, I believe that money does not equal career because I don't like the "how much money is enough" path. And regardless of your answer, if someone were willing to accept more risk than you does that equate to "soulless"?

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No one said this. Greater risk is not the same as very significant risk.

And of course you could have a career goal that is important enough to you to be worth more than a non zero risk to your health. Again no one said the opposite. You have a tendency to take opposing arguments and make them absolute so that you can refute them.

Well these are the quotes on which I based my post. If I misunderstood the meaning behind the words, then I apologize.

Can we agree on one thing? If one of us were ever in a similar situation, and withdrew from the pursuit of a team goal because of family health reasons, when explaining our rationale to our colleagues it would be wise to keep the whole, "I don't really need the money part" out of it?

[blender]

Ok, honest question.
How many posters here who are not essential workers are currently working at their jobs?

[djsFlames]

I am but it's not fun now cause of the significantly reduced staff. I've been kept on to work with the handful of jaded, uptight people my senior in the company.

Grateful for work but sometimes I feel I'm almost rooting for another shutdown to get a break from the personalities there. Lol not an ideal time to want to switch up jobs.

[transplant99]

why are people STILL carrying on about this stuff?

He doesnt want to play....who the hell cares?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well these are the quotes on which I based my post. If I misunderstood the meaning behind the words, then I apologize.

Can we agree on one thing? If one of us were ever in a similar situation, and withdrew from the pursuit of a team goal because of family health reasons, when explaining our rationale to our colleagues it would be wise to keep the whole, "I don't really need the money part" out of it?

In regards to my quote, I PERSONALLY would not accept a higher risk, if in the same situation. I answered a question that you asked directly, I’m not sure how that became “everybody” instead of “me.”

And again, I’m not sure of your obsession with not mentioning money. Money is privilege, having it allows us to make the decisions we feel are best without restraint, needing it means we can’t always do that. Ignore the influence of money on our lives if you want, but I can’t say I live such a privileged life where we can’t even speak about it.

Originally Posted by blender

Ok, honest question.
How many posters here who are not essential workers are currently working at their jobs?

I am. Because I cannot afford not to work (or be on CERB).

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by blender

Ok, honest question.
How many posters here who are not essential workers are currently working at their jobs?

I don't consider my job essential at all but have had to come to work every day(excluding weekends/holidays) since the pandemic started.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

In regards to my quote, I PERSONALLY would not accept a higher risk, if in the same situation. I answered a question that you asked directly, I’m not sure how that became “everybody” instead of “me.”

And again, I’m not sure of your obsession with not mentioning money. Money is privilege, having it allows us to make the decisions we feel are best without restraint, needing it means we can’t always do that. Ignore the influence of money on our lives if you want, but I can’t say I live such a privileged life where we can’t even speak about it.

I don't believe I said "everybody". It's good form to stay away from absolutes like no one and everybody in these kind of discussions. Nor do I "ignore the influence of money on our lives" or live such a privileged life.

It's OK we see the world a little differently, let's just leave it at that instead of trying to attribute viewpoints to each other. Sounds like we both respect Hamonic and beyond that we have strayed far off topic here.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by transplant99

why are people STILL carrying on about this stuff?

He doesnt want to play....who the hell cares?

Because I've found someone on the internet who I think is wrong. It's hard to let it go man.

[CsInMyBlood]

I for one am very happy Hamonic is not playing ever again for the Flames. People saying he will be missed for his physical play in the playoffs, lets take a quick look at last years playoffs.

Colorado scored 17 goals in the series. Hamonic was on the ice for 10 of them. 26 blocks, just like Kris Russell, backing in and standing around. I've never seen a player deflect more pucks past his goalie than Travis Hamonic.

His advanced stats were some of the worst on the team.

This misconception that Hamonic is some great physical asset is also totally false. I keep hearing this. Also the term "Warrior" thrown his way. Its simply way off base.

Put it this way, the Flames are getting run over in the series and our "physical" defenseman Travis Hamonic throws 4 hits all series. FOUR hits total in 5 games. Yes, thats correct both tough guy Sean Monahan (5)and big bad Johnny Gaudreau (5) each threw more hits than Travis Hamonic in that series. Simply pathetic.

So stay home Travis, I totally support your decision.

[MrMike]

Hamonic was a great person and ambassador for our team, on and off the ice. But I agree with CsInMyBlood at least with the eye test, and the eye test was a long one. No more stay at home defensive defenceman.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

I for one am very happy Hamonic is not playing ever again for the Flames. People saying he will be missed for his physical play in the playoffs, lets take a quick look at last years playoffs.

Colorado scored 17 goals in the series. Hamonic was on the ice for 10 of them. 26 blocks, just like Kris Russell, backing in and standing around. I've never seen a player deflect more pucks past his goalie than Travis Hamonic.

His advanced stats were some of the worst on the team.

This misconception that Hamonic is some great physical asset is also totally false. I keep hearing this. Also the term "Warrior" thrown his way. Its simply way off base.

Put it this way, the Flames are getting run over in the series and our "physical" defenseman Travis Hamonic throws 4 hits all series. FOUR hits total in 5 games. Yes, thats correct both tough guy Sean Monahan (5)and big bad Johnny Gaudreau (5) each threw more hits than Travis Hamonic in that series. Simply pathetic.

So stay home Travis, I totally support your decision.

This is a perfect illustration as to why 'hits' is a terrible metric for toughness/physicality/grit

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is a perfect illustration as to why 'hits' is a terrible metric for toughness/physicality/grit

Its actually a perfect illustration of how overrated Travis Hamonic is. Think Robyn Regehr or Rhett Warrener would have ended up with a measly 4 hits in 5 playoff games?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

I for one am very happy Hamonic is not playing ever again for the Flames. People saying he will be missed for his physical play in the playoffs, lets take a quick look at last years playoffs.

Colorado scored 17 goals in the series. Hamonic was on the ice for 10 of them. 26 blocks, just like Kris Russell, backing in and standing around. I've never seen a player deflect more pucks past his goalie than Travis Hamonic.

His advanced stats were some of the worst on the team.

This misconception that Hamonic is some great physical asset is also totally false. I keep hearing this. Also the term "Warrior" thrown his way. Its simply way off base.

Put it this way, the Flames are getting run over in the series and our "physical" defenseman Travis Hamonic throws 4 hits all series. FOUR hits total in 5 games. Yes, thats correct both tough guy Sean Monahan (5)and big bad Johnny Gaudreau (5) each threw more hits than Travis Hamonic in that series. Simply pathetic.

So stay home Travis, I totally support your decision.

I was excited when they traded for him, but I gotta say it's one of Tre's biggest blunders IMO, especially since Armstrong traded for Schenn at the same draft.

It scares me that there were rumors the Flames really wanted to re-sign Hamonic. It's one thing to make a mistake, but a whole other to not learn from it.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by IGGYRULES

Mainstream media, flouride in the water, 2 sun's, blah blah blah.

I need to hear more of this one!

[IGGYRULES]

Originally Posted by the2bears

I need to hear more of this one!

Something like the "chemtrails" block out the second sun but if you take a picture of the sun with your camera you can see a second one. Also Hilary emails, comet pizza, etc etc... Too much time on facebook, pollutes your mind. It's amazing how many people believe this

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by the2bears

I need to hear more of this one!

I know what was posted was joking about two suns.

Yet there is an actual natural thing where you can look to the sky and see 3 suns.

If it is cold enough outside, and being from manitoba it has been, you can see what appears to be a small sun a large one and another small one.

They are called Sun Dogs. Really cool thing to see. It also means you need to move to a place with a warmer climate.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp491jL3Cy4