[News] Hamonic opts out of Return to Play

[Flamenspiel]

i think Hamonic did the right thing, and I’d like to see other NHL’ers do the right thing and sit this out. By opening up the NHL is saying it’s business as usual and we are over COVID-19.

How can we tell the general population they have to wear masks and maintain safe practices such as social distancing when the elites are not doing it? Of course there is a lot nuance in this but at a high level this is what is happening.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

i think Hamonic did the right thing, and I’d like to see other NHL’ers do the right thing and sit this out. By opening up the NHL is saying it’s business as usual and we are over COVID-19.

How can we tell the general population they have to wear masks and maintain safe practices such as social distancing when the elites are not doing it? Of course there is a lot nuance in this but at a high level this is what is happening.

Except by allowing players to opt out without punishment, they are saying that it is not business as usual.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

i think Hamonic did the right thing, and I’d like to see other NHL’ers do the right thing and sit this out. By opening up the NHL is saying it’s business as usual and we are over COVID-19.

How can we tell the general population they have to wear masks and maintain safe practices such as social distancing when the elites are not doing it? Of course there is a lot nuance in this but at a high level this is what is happening.

This point will probably be dismissed by some but I think it's a good one. Having sports run with a group of guys in close contact is only going to further entrench the idiots who are out there partying in close quarters, having big get-togethers with high risk family members, not wearing masks, etc.

You go to Costco, which hands out FREE MASKS when you walk in, and there are still people inside not wearing them. I think having the NHL (and the other major leagues) continue just emboldens the idiots and maybe brings a few more people over to their side.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

Except by allowing players to opt out without punishment, they are saying that it is not business as usual.

Not to mention that the NHL is playing all games per conference in one city, with a defined bubble, no fans, etc.

Odd claim, business as usual

[PepsiFree]

In regards to the "business as usual" thing, sure, we all understand it's not business as usual. Does a casual fan? Does a moron see that? I'm sure some of them will see 40+ guys playing in close quarters, and suddenly think 40+ people without masks right up next to each other is okay, and the precautions should take place somewhere between 40 people in close contact and 20,000. They aren't exactly the type of audience you want to leave that interpretation up to.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

In regards to the "business as usual" thing, sure, we all understand it's not business as usual. Does a casual fan? Does a moron see that? I'm sure some of them will see 40+ guys playing in close quarters, and suddenly think 40+ people without masks right up next to each other is okay, and the precautions should take place somewhere between 40 people in close contact and 20,000. They aren't exactly the type of audience you want to leave that interpretation up to.

Let's be honest, most of those morons already think this is a hoax, that the earth is flat, that vaccines cause autism and they voted for Trump

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

This point will probably be dismissed by some but I think it's a good one. Having sports run with a group of guys in close contact is only going to further entrench the idiots who are out there partying in close quarters, having big get-togethers with high risk family members, not wearing masks, etc.

You go to Costco, which hands out FREE MASKS when you walk in, and there are still people inside not wearing them. I think having the NHL (and the other major leagues) continue just emboldens the idiots and maybe brings a few more people over to their side.

Does Costco test you before you're allowed in the store?

These are just wildly different situations. If the idiots can't see the differences, why punish those who want to responsibly earn a living?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Does Costco test you before you're allowed in the store?

These are just wildly different situations. If the idiots can't see the differences, why punish those who want to responsibly earn a living?

My comparison wasn't Costco/NHL, just the point that there are already people who, when given free and easy access to one of the best things we can do to protect each other from the virus when around other people, still choose not to do it.

And to be clear I only think it's a good point that people shouldn't dismiss out of hand. I don't think the NHL should stop on account of the idiot population (if that's how life worked, we wouldn't be able to do anything), we should all just be aware that it will also have a negative effect and make it that much harder to get buy-in from people that are already difficult to deal with. And I don't think it's an insignificant number of people.

[Canada 02]

Are they really going to play?

Penguins sideline 9 players after potential secondary exposure to COVID-19
https://www.tsn.ca/pittsburgh-pengui...d-19-1.1494918

Multiple Habs positive with COVID-19
https://www.tsn.ca/report-multiple-m...d-19-1.1494787

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

My comparison wasn't Costco/NHL, just the point that there are already people who, when given free and easy access to one of the best things we can do to protect each other from the virus when around other people, still choose not to do it.

And to be clear I only think it's a good point that people shouldn't dismiss out of hand. I don't think the NHL should stop on account of the idiot population (if that's how life worked, we wouldn't be able to do anything), we should all just be aware that it will also have a negative effect and make it that much harder to get buy-in from people that are already difficult to deal with. And I don't think it's an insignificant number of people.

I think this is a salient point too. Just dismissing it because we know it's clearly not business as usual doesn't change the appearance to the larger masses.

What about the young kids? They are going to see hockey back on and think that things are back to normal too. Meanwhile, many jurisdisctions in the states are struggling to consider how to safely send them back to schools... don't want those messages to conflict. If NHL players can muck about with each other, why can't the kids at recess? I know our answer will be testing and such, but that doesn't transfer to the mind of a 7 year old.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I think this is a salient point too. Just dismissing it because we know it's clearly not business as usual doesn't change the appearance to the larger masses.

What about the young kids? They are going to see hockey back on and think that things are back to normal too. Meanwhile, many jurisdisctions in the states are struggling to consider how to safely send them back to schools... don't want those messages to conflict. If NHL players can muck about with each other, why can't the kids at recess? I know our answer will be testing and such, but that doesn't transfer to the mind of a 7 year old.

You think?

“Mommy, daddy, why are there no fans in the stands?”

We have neighbours with 5 year olds that co quarantined. They also air hug. Kids aren’t as stupid as some people think. *And a lot of adults

Long story short, I trust most kids more than I would some adults.

[Enoch Root]

Today I learned that putting the health and safety of your children ahead of your career and passion and dreams is selfish.

Who knew?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

My comparison wasn't Costco/NHL, just the point that there are already people who, when given free and easy access to one of the best things we can do to protect each other from the virus when around other people, still choose not to do it.

And to be clear I only think it's a good point that people shouldn't dismiss out of hand. I don't think the NHL should stop on account of the idiot population (if that's how life worked, we wouldn't be able to do anything), we should all just be aware that it will also have a negative effect and make it that much harder to get buy-in from people that are already difficult to deal with. And I don't think it's an insignificant number of people.

Well yeah I get that. We should be aware that there are no shortage of uninformed people out there.

I realize I used the term "idiot" and wish I hadn't. Look at all the people who smoke tobacco or weed. Are they all morons too, despite all the warnings? Maybe the NHL games need to come with warnings upon return from every commercial break. Or a constant barrage of PSA's throughout the broadcast.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Are they really going to play?

Penguins sideline 9 players after potential secondary exposure to COVID-19
https://www.tsn.ca/pittsburgh-pengui...d-19-1.1494918

Multiple Habs positive with COVID-19
https://www.tsn.ca/report-multiple-m...d-19-1.1494787

With teams in their home cities for training camp, it wouldn't be shocking to see half the American teams not making it to their hubs.
Not sure if we'll make it to actual games.

[goflamesgo18]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Today I learned that putting the health and safety of your children ahead of your career and passion and dreams is selfish.

Who knew?

So playing hockey in an isolated bubble with constant testing is putting the health and safety of your children at risk?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by goflamesgo18

So playing hockey in an isolated bubble with constant testing is putting the health and safety of your children at risk?

I think it does, yes. The "bubble" is the best that the League can do under the circumstances, but I think it is incredibly naive to imagine that with 832 people in isolation for an extended duration this is a safer environment than it would be observing social distancing protocols in one's own home. The bubble is a tinderbox: it appears to be safe in principle, but in practice there are rather significant and unavoidable cracks. While I am excited for the prospect of hockey this summer, I remain highly sceptical that the tournament will finish as planned.

So, yes. Hamonic is envisioning the real potential of infection in the isolation bubble, and he is genuinely, legitimately worried about returning to his home with an infection and endangering his child and jeopardizing the safety and health of his family.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by goflamesgo18

So playing hockey in an isolated bubble with constant testing is putting the health and safety of your children at risk?

yes

there is a non-zero chance that he is exposed while in the bubble, in fact a pretty significant risk (already multiple positive tests in more than one camp) and then a very significant risk that he takes that exposure home

If you had small children with health issues, you would understand. If you don't, I can see not understanding, or being more inclined to casually dismiss that risk.

[Enoch Root]

people seem to be under the impression that constant testing makes you safe - all that constant testing does is catch the problem as quickly as possible

(not eliminate the chances of there being a problem)

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Are they really going to play?

Penguins sideline 9 players after potential secondary exposure to COVID-19
https://www.tsn.ca/pittsburgh-pengui...d-19-1.1494918

Multiple Habs positive with COVID-19
https://www.tsn.ca/report-multiple-m...d-19-1.1494787

So roughly 6% of players tested have the Coronavirus out of a pretty significant sample size.

Is that what we would expect in among the general population? It seems high to me, but I am not sure.

[Canada 02]

no official announcement from the Penguins (as expected), but these nine did not practice today. Hornqvist is the only notable roster player

The team didn't list the names, but the players absent from the practice setting here were Patric Hornqvist, Anthony Angello, Adam Johnson, Samuel Poulin, Pierre-Olivier Joseph, Philip Varone, Sam Miletic, Juuso Riikola and Alex D'Orio.