2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Elite C >>> Elite LW

You need an elite C to win, you dont need an elite LW

Elite C is certainly more valuable than an elite LW if they are on the same level of "elite" but the difference isn't Monahan and a 1st round pick.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Depends on how good you think Eichel is. Does he carry a better team deep or is he not that good. I have not watched much of him but does he replace the hole left by losing Monahan + Gaudreau + 1st?

AND a 1st?

What is going on around here?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Elite C >>> Elite LW

You need an elite C to win, you dont need an elite LW

Sure, no argument there for your first part. Doesn't change the fact that your valuation of Gaudreau, Monahan, and Eichel and how they compare is wrong.

Eichel is not yet an elite center, if we consider elite to be "the best of the best." Gaudreau is already an elite winger, and more so by any measurement that would define Eichel as elite.

As for the second part, you also need more than a single elite C to win, which means you might need an elite LW, or an elite goaltender, or an elite defenceman, which has been the case for every Stanley Cup winner over the last decade. Truth is, you need some combination. The Washington Capitals don't win a cup without Ovechkin and the Blackhawks don't win two without Patrick Kane. So, I'm sure they'd disagree that those wingers weren't needed.

[dammage79]

The problem.isnt the top line. Its the lack of depth beyond that. Its too easy for opposing teams to zero on Gaudreau and Monny and Lindholm and I think that became pretty evident in the Colorado.series. and it didn't help that when the chips were down and the series was on the line Peters took.it further and forced everything to Gaudreau. It really exposed the build. And instead of trying to improve the fw depth we plugged holes and swapped contract cancers. Granted I think Lucic fit better overall but it really hurt the team that didn't improve fw depth. Instead we watched Janko disappear, Bennett stagnate being tossed around everywhere and plugs like Reider and Rinaldo get washed in. Last offseason was a fail by Tree. I believe in Tree but he really was sleeping at the wheel.

The reason I think a Johnny trade is a good idea is you can break his production into pieces and spread it across the top 3 lines and achieve more success have 3 credible threats instead of just one and a half.

[HighLifeMan]

Eichel is the very definition of a one way center at this point.
He is not yet an elite center, and if he were Buffalo would be much further along in there process. He has every tool you could possibly ask for but his commitment level on the defensive end and on a shift to shift basis are serious sore points. If you are going to harp on Monahan for that, you might as well do the same for Eichel. He has also not shown the ability to greatly lift up or better his teammates.

Eichel has led the Sabres to 23rd, 26th, 31st, 27th, and 26th placed finishes.

When was the last time any player returned a package any where near what was proposed in that article by the Buffalo Radio Team? It's absurd.

Aho + Svechnikov?
Monahan + Tkachuk +?

History states that Buffalo would be lucky to get any of those assets alone as the main piece + futures. It's always quantity over quality in these scenarios.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by dammage79

The problem.isnt the top line. Its the lack of depth beyond that. Its too easy for opposing teams to zero on Gaudreau and Monny and Lindholm and I think that became pretty evident in the Colorado.series. and it didn't help that when the chips were down and the series was on the line Peters took.it further and forced everything to Gaudreau. It really exposed the build. And instead of trying to improve the fw depth we plugged holes and swapped contract cancers. Granted I think Lucic fit better overall but it really hurt the team that didn't improve fw depth. Instead we watched Janko disappear, Bennett stagnate being tossed around everywhere and plugs like Reider and Rinaldo get washed in. Last offseason was a fail by Tree. I believe in Tree but he really was sleeping at the wheel.

The reason I think a Johnny trade is a good idea is you can break his production into pieces and spread it across the top 3 lines and achieve more success have 3 credible threats instead of just one and a half.

The bold part just isn't true.

Treliving traded for Zucker at the deadline and Kadri that summer, he knew we needed another top 6 forward and another top 6 C but he got blocked by whatever happened at the deadline, and also by a NTC.

So to your first statement, that would have solved the depth behind our number one line without a doubt.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Linholm
Tkachuk - Kadri - Mangiapane
Zucker Backlund - XXXXX

Treliving can only do so much, he can't force teams to trade him a C, and he can't force the rare one that becomes available to waive his NTC for Calgary.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The bold part just isn't true.

Treliving traded for Zucker at the deadline and Kadri that summer, he knew we needed another top 6 forward and another top 6 C but he got blocked by whatever happened at the deadline, and also by a NTC.

So to your first statement, that would have solved the depth behind our number one line without a doubt.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Linholm
Tkachuk - Kadri - Mangiapane
Zucker Backlund - XXXXX

Treliving can only do so much, he can't force teams to trade him a C, and he can't force the rare one that becomes available to waive his NTC for Calgary.

Fair counter. He tried. But its still a fail.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Time to bust this beauty post from bax again:




Should really be re-posted at the start of every new page of this thread or stickied to the top of the forum.

But Eichel? Where's Eichel? I don't see Jack (worth monny, johnny and a 1st) frickin Eichel on that list. Eichel the hero!

[ForeverFlameFan]

Eichel is great, elite in fact, but he doesn’t know how to carry his team into the playoffs. I know that seems unfair given what he has to work with (aside from a few players), but even the best can get the team in the playoffs.

Just look at McDavid in 2016, MacKinnon in 2019. Haven’t seen that from Eichel yet. Hall even did it in 2018. I want Eichel, but moving Gaudreau AND Monahan is a lateral move at best.

[1qqaaz]

If Eichel had carried his teams to the playoffs, he wouldn't be in trade talks, and his value would be in the stratosphere.

But I do agree with your main point - he's not worth Gaudreau + Monahan, because he hasn't been an MVP, so his value isn't that high.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Eichel is great, elite in fact, but he doesn’t know how to carry his team into the playoffs. I know that seems unfair given what he has to work with (aside from a few players), but even the best can get the team in the playoffs.

Just look at McDavid in 2016, MacKinnon in 2019. Haven’t seen that from Eichel yet. Hall even did it in 2018. I want Eichel, but moving Gaudreau AND Monahan is a lateral move at best.

I'd be willing to do Gaudreau and a first, but then we'd still need to move out a bunch of salary and that deal doesn't make a ton of sense for the Sabres unless it is a 3-way with the Sabres getting more futures from the 3rd team

[Vinny01]

If a player of Eichel’s ilk with 6 years of term left and only 23 years old is available via trade you need to be aggressive in making a move. I think Eichel can be a Hart trophy winner and I would easily give up the Monahan+Gaudreau+1st package (as long as we don’t win the lotto).

That trade paces the way for Hall to sign as it frees up more than $3M in cap space. Gaudreau=Hall, Monahan <<< Eichel

Adding Eichel and Hall to the battle of Alberta with Tkachuk would likely vault that rivalry into must watch TV for fans across the league.

[kyuss275]

I would gladly trade Johnny and Mony for Eichel. Wouldn’t think twice about it. Adding the 1st round pick seems a bit much. Would change it to a 2nd round pick

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I would gladly trade Johnny and Mony for Eichel. Wouldn’t think twice about it. Adding the 1st round pick seems a bit much. Would change it to a 2nd round pick

I wouldn’t let a mid 1st get in the way.

Hypothetically if they ask for what the article states which is Monahan, Tkachuk, 1st I would counter with Monahan Gaudreau 2nd but if they held firm on the 1st I would pull the trigger. Just not with Tkachuk in the deal

[dammage79]

Wow, this is mind blowingly absurd stuff. Eichel isn't even close to being worth all that. This is literally stupid. How this is even a conversation Flames fans are willing to have is stupid. Thank the fracking gods you're all just fans.

Wheres that billy Madison quote when you need it.

“Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Wow, this is mind blowingly absurd stuff. Eichel isn't even close to being worth all that. This is literally stupid. How this is even a conversation Flames fans are willing to have is stupid. Thank the fracking gods you're all just fans.

Wheres that billy Madison quote when you need it.

“Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

Talk about dramatic overreaction...

I am a big Monahan fan- if people are dead set that the team needs a better centre than him to compete then they better be ready to pay out the ass to get one. This is that type of trade.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Talk about dramatic overreaction...

I am a big Monahan fan- if people are dead set that the team needs a better centre than him to compete then they better be ready to pay out the ass to get one. This is that type of trade.

Not nearly dramatic enough in my estimation. 2/3rds of your top line AND a pick for the exact same situation Eichel has in Buffalo. But it'll be different this time in Calgary right?

Whoever thinks you need better a better Center than Monahan ONLY, is out to lunch. You need two quality centers like Monahan. Push Backlund to the 3rd line C. Depth, not less... my god.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Yeah, Eichel isn't McDavid. Let's not get crazy here. Eichel is a top 10-20 player. He was having a career year this season, and that put him on par with Huberdeau in Florida. I din't think Huberdeau garners that type of return. Hell, Matthews is a way better player that Eichel and I don't think Matthews gets that. Save all the bull####, Monahan and Gaudreau are two top line players. Both are a year removed from scoring a PPG or better. So to suggest that you could get that, for a another slightly higher PPG player is nuts. Let Eichel rot in Buffalo and be a big fish in a loser pond. Flames should just focus on getting better in the spots where they are weak. Bring in a top six RW, another middle six center, and another young defenseman, and I think this team is set. They have the resources to make that happen without doing something silly like dumping 140-150 points production for 80-90 points production.

[TheScorpion]

I'm on the other side of the coin here. I think if Eichel was playing literally anywhere else we'd be looking at him right beside McDavid.

I also think his contract plays into his value relative to the Flames' guys. He has what, six years left on his deal? The Flames' guys have five years, combined, before they're UFAs. That substantially hurts their value.

I don't want to trade Monahan. But I don't think two years of Johnny, three years of Monahan, and a mid-first is even close to getting six years of a franchise player.

But that's just me.

[PepsiFree]

McDavid was McDavid when the Oilers were still as atrocious as the Buffalo Sabres. Eichel is not McDavid (now you're making me pump McDavid's tires, disgusting).

Even if you suggest Eichel is greater than he is, proposals like Gaudreau/Monahan/1st for Eichel just show a complete lack of respect for the quality of the Flames players, or their value, or a complete lack of understanding of how trades work in the NHL.

No single player outside Eric Lindros has ever, in the history of the NHL, been traded for such an enormously valuable package.