2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Sylvanfan]

Philly was starting to peak as a team before things shut down. I am less convinced that they feel the urge to make a big move. Ed Snider isn't around to tell the GM that he's not winning enough every two minutes.

I could see them giving Voracek and another asset like Frost to get the instant upgrade and cap relief. But I don't think they will fall all over themselves for a player who will likely be willing to talk to them when he's a free agent. Like when they thought offering Matt Read and a couple of firsts should have convinced Nashville to trade them Shea Weber before they put forth that offer sheet.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I see.

I wonder if there is any way to work that proposal as a basis but get Konecny instead of Voracek?

Gaudreau
Bennett
Kylington

for

Konecny
Frost
Myers


That seems pretty optimistic. Flyers are still getting the best player in the deal IMO, and will have no trouble signing him past the two years remaining on his deal. I guess it would depend on how much they liked Bennett and Kylington.

Flames need to add here? Pelletier? 2020 1st?

You'd think the ship on them trading Konecny would have sailed, but Johnny Hockey is a big deal.

If we could get Konecny and Frost with only losing Gaudreau as a key player (though I love Bennett) and have to add a high chance coin flip like Pelletier or the 1st, you do it, easy.

I'd be more comfortable doing it if we had Hall locked up, meaning that 1st would be a 2021, but I would still probably do it either way. Konecny and Tkachuk on the same team would be really entertaining.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Just curious, why isn't Voracek an answer? He's produced like a top 10 RW in this league for years. 0.81ppg this season even.

He won't be the answer 4 or 5 years from now, but for the next 3 he couldn't hurt, and that's the current cores window is it not?

Good teams have a small window. I want a team to have a window open for the next ten years with right moves. We have a very young core with Tkachuk Lindholm Monahan Anderson Hanafin Valimaki and I believe with the correct moves not handcuffing us can keep that window open for quite a while.

Yes Hall could slam that window shut in 4-5 years as well but he’s much less likely to and doesn’t have any acquisition cost.

Can we be a San Jose or St Louis and make right decisions, continually adding and drafting youth while getting younger and draft picks for expiring valuable assets.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Highly optimistic to expect 3 top line seasons IMO. I would expect 2 at best, then significant drop-off and cap hell.

Why? Why is this likely. All those who have been saying this have yet to put forth any reason to suggest this is likely. None. Just some crazy belief that because a player hits a certain age that the wheels fall off. Yet this is the same fan base that talks about Giordano playing into his 40s and held the same belief about Iginla when he was here. Why would a player that is showing no signs of slowing down all of a sudden fall apart at age 32 or 33? This makes no sense. If this was true Giordano would not have won a Norris, he would have been out of the game.

I would rather have Johnny (who's better) for 2 years, and then nothing (but $6.75M of cap space), than have Voracek for 2 years, and then Voracek as a cap anchor after that.

Well that's just plain stupid. Seriously. You're cutting your nose off to spite your face. That's how you guarantee that your team goes to hell and has to suffer through a painful rebuild. Don't pull an Iginla all over again. Recognize how to maximize assets and make a deal. Get the best assets available and move on.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Just curious, why isn't Voracek an answer? He's produced like a top 10 RW in this league for years. 0.81ppg this season even.

He won't be the answer 4 or 5 years from now, but for the next 3 he couldn't hurt, and that's the current cores window is it not?

32% of the cap tied up in Voracek, Backlund, Lucic, Gio all players that are 31+ next year. I just don’t see teams winning much when 1/3 of their cap is tied up in aging players.

I am not convinced this current core has what it takes to win so why close the window instead of trying to extend it by adding young pieces in a Gaudreau trade?

4-5 years Tkachuk is 26-27 so still plenty of time to win

[Roof-Daddy]

Johnny Gaudreau, Sam Bennett, Oliver Kylington for Travis Konecny, Morgan Frost, Phillipe Myers
Mark Jankowski, Matthew Phillips for Josh Anderson

Taylor Hall @ 7 x $8,000,000 AAV
Jan Ruuta @ 1 x $900,000 AAV
Laurent Brossoit @ 1 x $900,000 AAV
Zac Rinaldo @ 1 x $750,000 AAV
Michael Stone @ 1 x $750,000 AAV

Josh Anderson @ 2 x $2,250,000 AAV
Phillipe Myers @ 2 x $2,250,000 AAV
Andrew Mangiapane @ 2 x $2,000,000 AAV
Glenn Gawdin @ 1 x $787,500 AAV

Taylor Hall - Sean Monahan - Elias Lindholm
Matt Tkachuk - Morgan Frost - Travis Konecny
Mangiapane - Mikael Backlund - Josh Anderson
Milan Lucic - Derek Ryan - Dillon Dube

Zac Rinaldo, Glenn Gawdin

Mark Giordano - Rasmus Andersson
Noah Hanifin - Phillipe Myers
Jusso Valimaki - Jan Ruuta

Michael Stone

David Rittich
Laurent Brossoit

$1,260,001 remaining cap space

I'm doubtful the Flyers would move Konecny but for Johnny Gaudreau?? Maybe, if you drop Kylington and Myers? Maybe.....

Fun to look at though.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by New Era

"I would rather have Johnny (who's better) for 2 years, and then nothing (but $6.75M of cap space), than have Voracek for 2 years, and then Voracek as a cap anchor after that."


Well that's just plain stupid. Seriously. You're cutting your nose off to spite your face. That's how you guarantee that your team goes to hell and has to suffer through a painful rebuild. Don't pull an Iginla all over again. Recognize how to maximize assets and make a deal. Get the best assets available and move on.

Man don't have to call that stupid. It is not stupid at all and I agree fully with that statement.

Prospects and picks. Draft space is becoming a huge asset which as to be looked at as such.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by New Era

Why? Why is this likely. All those who have been saying this have yet to put forth any reason to suggest this is likely. None. Just some crazy belief that because a player hits a certain age that the wheels fall off. Yet this is the same fan base that talks about Giordano playing into his 40s and held the same belief about Iginla when he was here. Why would a player that is showing no signs of slowing down all of a sudden fall apart at age 32 or 33? This makes no sense. If this was true Giordano would not have won a Norris, he would have been out of the league

You are giving rare examples and talking like it is commonplace. Look at the free agent class of 2016 and how many guys fell off a cliff in their 30’s. Happened with plenty of guys from the 2003 draft class. The LA Kings went from cup contenders to multiple top 5 picks by overpaying a core into their 30’s. Kesler, Burrows, Perry, Richards, Carter, Neal, Backes, Ladd, Lucic, Brouwer, Okposo, Heatly, Ryan

Just a bunch of quick examples off the top of my head of star players that fell off around the age Voracek is. Let’s trade our 27 year old superstar for that guy and pay him a higher cap hit than any Flames in the history of the team.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

32% of the cap tied up in Voracek, Backlund, Lucic, Gio all players that are 31+ next year. I just don’t see teams winning much when 1/3 of their cap is tied up in aging players.

I am not convinced this current core has what it takes to win so why close the window instead of trying to extend it by adding young pieces in a Gaudreau trade?

4-5 years Tkachuk is 26-27 so still plenty of time to win

Bruins were in 1st place when COVID shut it down and went to the Finals last year, they have about $30 million tied up with plus 30 players (Krejci, Bergeron, Marchand, Chara, Rask and Halak).

If the older players produce and win, they produce and win. Granted none of those guys are nearly dead weight like Lucic is.

I don't disagree with your premise, I mean younger is better, but it's not always as clear cut as you make it to be. There is no cookie cutter formula for winning in the NHL.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I would have zero interest in Marner under any circumstances but I would love Nylander. I think he's a much better player. I would have no reservations whatsoever about trading Noah Hanifin for him.

Marner's awesome, you're crazy. He's like a RH version of Johnny with a higher ceiling and younger. I would drive 13 to the airport to get Marner.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

You are giving rare examples and talking like it is commonplace. Look at the free agent class of 2016 and how many guys fell off a cliff in their 30’s. Happened with plenty of guys from the 2003 draft class. The LA Kings went from cup contenders to multiple top 5 picks by overpaying a core into their 30’s. Kesler, Burrows, Perry, Richards, Carter, Neal, Backes, Ladd, Lucic, Brouwer, Okposo, Heatly, Ryan

Just a bunch of quick examples off the top of my head of star players that fell off around the age Voracek is. Let’s trade our 27 year old superstar for that guy and pay him a higher cap hit than any Flames in the history of the team.

Don't forget Dion!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

32% of the cap tied up in Voracek, Backlund, Lucic, Gio all players that are 31+ next year. I just don’t see teams winning much when 1/3 of their cap is tied up in aging players.

How about Washington? Ovechkhin (34) $9.538, Backstrom (32) $6.7, Oshie (33) $5.167, Eller (31) $3.5, Hagelin (31) $2.75, Carlson (30) $8.0, Gudas (30) $2.345, Holtby (30) $6.1 $44.1M or 54% of cap tied up in players 30 or older.

How about Boston? Krejci (34) $7.25, Bergeron (34) $6.875, Marchand (32) $6.125, Chara (43) $2.0, Rask (33) $7.0, Halak (35) $2.75 - $32M or 39% of cap tied up in players 30 or older.

What loser organizations!!!

[Scroopy Noopers]

Hawks and the Kings are seemingly just paying out players who won them championships. It seems to be a thing, reward contracts. Toews, Kane, Kopitar, Doughty, Brown,

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Bruins were in 1st place when COVID shut it down and went to the Finals last year, they have about $30 million tied up with plus 30 players (Krejci, Bergeron, Marchand, Chara, Rask and Halak).

If the older players produce and win, they produce and win. Granted none of those guys are nearly dead weight like Lucic is.

I don't disagree with your premise, I mean younger is better, but it's not always as clear cut as you make it to be. There is no cookie cutter formula for winning in the NHL.

Bergeron is one of the best players of his generation as is Chara. Most of those players are part of a team that went to the finals 3 times in the last 10 years. Voracek comes from the Flames East where they make the playoffs one year and miss the next. He will get 85pts then 60pts. Maybe he keeps up this level of production and it is a good deal?

I think there is just as much or more risk targeting an aging bloated contract like Voracek vs a 7-10 pick in the draft. Both carry risks while Voracek is a proven player he has a $8.25M cap hit that takes him to 36. New Era tried to do the exercise and the only way to add him and sign Hall is t have Lucic magically retire this summer.

I have been all about moving Johnny for high end futures and using the space created to sign Hall. I think the futures acquired this offseason could be a huge piece or pieces of the core when Tkachuk is 26-27 years old.

I want the Flames to be able to sell Tkachuk on the now and the future and getting the top prospect and signing Hall does that.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by New Era

How about Washington? Ovechkhin (34) $9.538, Backstrom (32) $6.7, Oshie (33) $5.167, Eller (31) $3.5, Hagelin (31) $2.75, Carlson (30) $8.0, Gudas (30) $2.345, Holtby (30) $6.1 $44.1M or 54% of cap tied up in players 30 or older.

How about Boston? Krejci (34) $7.25, Bergeron (34) $6.875, Marchand (32) $6.125, Chara (43) $2.0, Rask (33) $7.0, Halak (35) $2.75 - $32M or 39% of cap tied up in players 30 or older.

What loser organizations!!!

Naming teams with generational players that have been competitive and winning playoff rounds pretty much every year for a decade. Flames are not that team and Voracek doesn’t turn them into that team.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by New Era

How about Washington? Ovechkhin (34) $9.538, Backstrom (32) $6.7, Oshie (33) $5.167, Eller (31) $3.5, Hagelin (31) $2.75, Carlson (30) $8.0, Gudas (30) $2.345, Holtby (30) $6.1 $44.1M or 54% of cap tied up in players 30 or older.

How about Boston? Krejci (34) $7.25, Bergeron (34) $6.875, Marchand (32) $6.125, Chara (43) $2.0, Rask (33) $7.0, Halak (35) $2.75 - $32M or 39% of cap tied up in players 30 or older.

What loser organizations!!!

Teams don't trade their quality players of that calibre. I would trade any one of Lucic/Backlund straight up for any of those players.

Yeah what about Crosby and Malkin too? Now that is a stupid statement since you like throwing that statement around.

[AustinL_NHL]

In the last 3 seasons, Voracek ranks 100th among all NHL RW'ers in Goals per 60.

Not to mention his points-per-game has dipped the last 3 seasons despite his oiSH% actually improving during that time. Not a good combo.

He would need to be lined up along players who can actually put the puck in the net because the dude cannot score.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

You are giving rare examples and talking like it is commonplace. Look at the free agent class of 2016 and how many guys fell off a cliff in their 30’s. Happened with plenty of guys from the 2003 draft class. The LA Kings went from cup contenders to multiple top 5 picks by overpaying a core into their 30’s. Kesler, Burrows, Perry, Richards, Carter, Neal, Backes, Ladd, Lucic, Brouwer, Okposo, Heatly, Ryan

Some good examples there and some bad ones. Injuries came in to play for a lot of these guys, but yes, age does affect everyone. It does affect everyone differently. You can look at the Bruins for an example.

Just a bunch of quick examples off the top of my head of star players that fell off around the age Voracek is. Let’s trade our 27 year old superstar for that guy and pay him a higher cap hit than any Flames in the history of the team.

Voracek is only one component of the trade. Frost and Myers are actually the bigger parts and the reason for eating the big salary. Voracek is going to be a great addition, and will be so for probably the length of his contract, bit Frost and Myers fill very important slots in the lineup for now and the long term.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Marner's awesome, you're crazy. He's like a RH version of Johnny with a higher ceiling and younger. I would drive 13 to the airport to get Marner.

One issue I would have there is the extra $4M cap hit.

Gaudreau @6.75 > Marner @10.9

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Naming teams with generational players that have been competitive and winning playoff rounds pretty much every year for a decade. Flames are not that team and Voracek doesn’t turn them into that team.

Why am I out of thanks? We need a generational player to compare to those teams