2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[TheScorpion]

Yeah... I just don't like Mitch, though. Never been impressed by his play... I think Nylander is all-around a far superior player.

Mitch is basically Johnny with better defense and worse hands. Nylander is a beefed-up version of Lindholm.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

You could throw Ryan Johannson into the list too, but like him, I don't put stastny or duchess in the "top line" C category.

That being said ROR has shown he's part of that conversation. Damn man, that's ROR, Stastny, Duchene all off the same team.

Yes, that makes me sick also

Yeah, forgot about Johansen, although he's very similar to Duchene. Both have alot of talent but are very inconsistent. Duchene had some point per game seasons in his early and mid 20's and also got selected for Canada at the Olympics and World Cup so I considered him a true #1 at one point, not so much anymore. Crazy that the two them are eating $16 million of cap space for Nashville now, and that's probably a big reason why Nashville struggled this year.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Yeah... I just don't like Mitch, though. Never been impressed by his play... I think Nylander is all-around a far superior player.

Mitch is basically Johnny with better defense and worse hands. Nylander is a beefed-up version of Lindholm.

I dunno Scorp, Marner is only 23 and already has two 1.15ppg seasons under his belt.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

OK, so RW's from teams that would be in JG's wheel house, because let's be honest, despite there being no trade protection for Johnny, teams are going to know if they actually have a real shot at extending him or not:

PHI - Voracek
PHI - Konecny

NYR - Buchnevich

CAR - Terravainen
CAR - Necas

NJD - Palmieri
NJD - Gusev

BOS - Pasternak
BOS - Debrusk

NYI - Eberle
NYI - Bailey

WAS - Oshie
WAS - Wilson

BUF - Reinhart

CLB - Atkinson
CLB - Bjorkstrand
CLB - Anderson

PIT - Rust


Not seeing very many realistic options there. Seems like a true top line RW might be as big of a white whale for this club as a true #1C

You can add Emil Bemstrom fromColumbus.

Scrop brought him up a few weeks back. His release is filthy. Piggy backing off his thoughts I don’t think Columbus is talked about enough regarding a potential landing spot for JG. They have a lot of pieces I think would be appealing to the Flames and they definitely have the appetite to add a player to replace Panarin.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I dunno Scorp, Marner is only 23 and already has two 1.15ppg seasons under his belt.

Just not a fan of his style of play that's all. He's paid way too much and I don't want another Johnny. I want a big Swede with a great contract.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Yeah... I just don't like Mitch, though. Never been impressed by his play... I think Nylander is all-around a far superior player.

Mitch is basically Johnny with better defense and worse hands. Nylander is a beefed-up version of Lindholm.

Ian Tulloch who writes about the Leafs would agree. Between the blue lines Nylander is one of the better forwards in the league gaining the line. All things considered, I would rather have Nylander and his contract than Marner and his contract. Debatable who is better, but IMO no way Marner is ~4 million per better.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I strongly doubt that you can acquire a C that is better than Monahan in a trade. So #1 C is out, and there is no way that Johnny should be traded for a #2 C. IMO, if the plan is to acquire Hall and move Johnny, then the return has to be for a #1 RW - not top 6, top line.

If it also includes lottery items, great. But it has to include a top line C, RW or top 2 Dman.

Otherwise the team is worse.

This is exactly why I'd like him to be traded to Buffalo (if he is traded at all) for a package containing Cozens, Reinhart and maybe even a defensemen with possibly a small add by the Flames.

wouldn't solve all of those problems immediately but two of them now with the potential of the 1C in 2-3 years.

that also brings me to my next point. I looked up Konecny's stats expecting to be blown away because of how everyone has been talking about him but I just don't get why he'd be "untouchable" when they would 100% be upgrading on him with Johnny?

I get that he is three years younger signed on a really good long term contract and he was outscoring Gaudreau this year. But that was his best season by a mile so far in his career and it was still under a ppg vs. Johnny's worst season. And to add to that does no one remember that Johnny was heating up in the couple weeks before Covid? Chances are he still would have outscored Konecny this year.

And Philly would have no problem signing Gaudreau so the contract thing isn't an issue outside of having to pay Johnny 9+ in three years. So essentially an extra mil on the cap for two then an extra 4 after that for a far better, hometown player? I think that's an easy yes for Philly and probably would have to add something. Maybe not much but something.

I think Konecny+ is actually a pretty reasonable return for Johnny especially when you consider what's been posted a page or two back where Johnny is a top, like, what was it? 5? producer at 5 on 5 in the league over the last 4 years and second to only McDavid in % of team goals.

If we can't get Cozens, Reinhart + from Buffalo I'd like to see a Konecny + dman package from Philly.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I would have zero interest in Marner under any circumstances but I would love Nylander. I think he's a much better player. I would have no reservations whatsoever about trading Noah Hanifin for him.

While the cap hit isn’t great, I expect you might be the only person in the world who thinks that Nylander is better than Marner.

There are some that think that Marner is better than Matthews, although I’m not one of those.

But you might well be able to get Nylander for Hanifin. Because the Leafs certainly wouldn’t trade Marner for Hanifin.


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[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by BigErnSalute_16

This is exactly why I'd like him to be traded to Buffalo (if he is traded at all) for a package containing Cozens, Reinhart and maybe even a defensemen with possibly a small add by the Flames.

wouldn't solve all of those problems immediately but two of them now with the potential of the 1C in 2-3 years.

that also brings me to my next point. I looked up Konecny's stats expecting to be blown away because of how everyone has been talking about him but I just don't get why he'd be "untouchable" when they would 100% be upgrading on him with Johnny?

I get that he is three years younger signed on a really good long term contract and he was outscoring Gaudreau this year. But that was his best season by a mile so far in his career and it was still under a ppg vs. Johnny's worst season. And to add to that does no one remember that Johnny was heating up in the couple weeks before Covid? Chances are he still would have outscored Konecny this year.

And Philly would have no problem signing Gaudreau so the contract thing isn't an issue outside of having to pay Johnny 9+ in three years. So essentially an extra mil on the cap for two then an extra 4 after that for a far better, hometown player? I think that's an easy yes for Philly and probably would have to add something. Maybe not much but something.

I think Konecny+ is actually a pretty reasonable return for Johnny especially when you consider what's been posted a page or two back where Johnny is a top, like, what was it? 5? producer at 5 on 5 in the league over the last 4 years and second to only McDavid in % of team goals.

If we can't get Cozens, Reinhart + from Buffalo I'd like to see a Konecny + dman package from Philly.

Yeah I don't hate that.

Small LW for smallish RW.

Konecny is younger and helps address Flames natural RW shortage issue.

Gaudreau is the more proven producer and will extend long term with the Flyers.

Not a C but pretty solid return, and hopefully you can snag a prospect with him.

[TheScorpion]

I wouldn't trade Hanifin for Marner in a million years. Why would the Flames take on nearly $6 million in additional salary (!!) and give up their surest bet to replace Giordano for a Johnny redux?

Trust me, there are plenty of Leafs fans who prefer Nylander to Marner. Much like there are plenty of Flames fans (like me) who prefer Lindholm to Johnny.

[SportsJunky]

You are on fire today with the hot takes Scorp.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I quoted Enoch who's assertion was that a Johnny trade needs to return a top line RW, a top line C or a top 2 D.

Seems very unlikely on all accounts IMO.

More likely a Johnny trade could return a package of players with POTENTIAL to reach those heights, but haven't reached them yet, which of course is a gamble on the Flames part.

It also illustrates how New Era's proposal that he repeatedly puts up and is repeatedly scoffed at for, actually makes a crap ton of sense.

Top line RW = Voracek (0.87 ppg the last 5 seasons, 9th in the NHL for all RWs)

Then two pieces, a young C and a young RHD who both are just breaking into the league and have tremendous upside and pedigree.

I mean really, people crap all over it because they have visions of top ten picks and top ten prospects (I do too at times), but if you break it fills some needs, you're just risking that Voracek's play will fall off a cliff or that Frost/Myers won't reach their potential.

But it doesn't because you are almost SURE to lose (hoping you draft a win).

Voracek is not an answer. Neither are hopes and prayers.

If you can't solve one (or two) of those primary issues, then you don't trade him. Because you're making the team worse.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Just not a fan of his style of play that's all. He's paid way too much and I don't want another Johnny. I want a big Swede with a great contract.

I’m not sure what you mean... the guy does everything. Including blocking shots in big games. He’s significantly better than Johnny, because he brings more.

And also, for the record, Leaf fans soured on Marner for the same reason they soured on Nylander, the holdout. I haven’t spoken to single person who doesn’t want Nylander moved. I’m so confused by this whole angle, I feel like I’m dreaming.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But it doesn't because you are almost SURE to lose (hoping you draft a win).

Voracek is not an answer. Neither are hopes and prayers.

If you can't solve one (or two) of those primary issues, then you don't trade him. Because you're making the team worse.

Just curious, why isn't Voracek an answer? He's produced like a top 10 RW in this league for years. 0.81ppg this season even.

He won't be the answer 4 or 5 years from now, but for the next 3 he couldn't hurt, and that's the current cores window is it not?

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Some teams are going to be absolutely screwed by the salary cap in the upcoming season. Toronto is one that is desperately going to need to unload few medium or one top player. 5 mill in cap room with a few players to sign and only 2 defenceman (Muzzin and Reilly)

We could look at Nylander as a very possible target.

Or to really fix their top heavy roster would you try and see if Marner is movable? With Anderson Valimaki Hanifin Kyllington we could be a cap friendly defenceman move for them.


I don’t put it out the realm of possibilities with Tre already trying to get Kadri last year. I could see the leafs being a trade partner.

???

Leafs have their top 9 locked up and Muzzin, Reilly, Holl with Dermott being a RFA and Sandin and Lillegrin coming up.

They only need a bottom line with can be filled in with Spezza deals or young kids from the farm.

Sorry but Nylander is pretty untouchable unless the Leafs are getting back an equally dynamic player of similar age.

Hanafin is good but not at Nylander's level.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Just curious, why isn't Voracek an answer? He's produced like a top 10 RW in this league for years. 0.81ppg this season even.

He won't be the answer 4 or 5 years from now, but for the next 3 he couldn't hurt, and that's the current cores window is it not?

Highly optimistic to expect 3 top line seasons IMO. I would expect 2 at best, then significant drop-off and cap hell.

I would rather have Johnny (who's better) for 2 years, and then nothing (but $6.75M of cap space), than have Voracek for 2 years, and then Voracek as a cap anchor after that.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Highly optimistic to expect 3 top line seasons IMO. I would expect 2 at best, then significant drop-off and cap hell.

I would rather have Johnny (who's better) for 2 years, and then nothing (but $6.75M of cap space), than have Voracek for 2 years, and then Voracek as a cap anchor after that.

I see.

I wonder if there is any way to work that proposal as a basis but get Konecny instead of Voracek?

Gaudreau
Bennett
Kylington

for

Konecny
Frost
Myers


That seems pretty optimistic. Flyers are still getting the best player in the deal IMO, and will have no trouble signing him past the two years remaining on his deal. I guess it would depend on how much they liked Bennett and Kylington.

Flames need to add here? Pelletier? 2020 1st?

You'd think the ship on them trading Konecny would have sailed, but Johnny Hockey is a big deal.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Lindholm is this team's #1 RW. Mangiapane appears to be a guy trending to be able to take that #2 RW spot.

If Dube can find some consistency in his offensive game, I think he could play a part in the top 2 RW puzzle also, as early as Aug 1.

Yes, but if he's playing RW, then the Flames have a problem at C.

If Backlund and Ryan are your #2 and #3 centers, you have a problem. If they are your #3 and #4 Cs, you are in great shape!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I see.

I wonder if there is any way to work that proposal as a basis but get Konecny instead of Voracek?

Gaudreau
Bennett
Kylington

for

Konecny
Frost
Myers


That seems pretty optimistic. Flyers are still getting the best player in the deal IMO, and will have no trouble signing him past the two years remaining on his deal. I guess it would depend on how much they liked Bennett and Kylington.

Flames need to add here? Pelletier? 2020 1st?

You'd think the ship on them trading Konecny would have sailed, but Johnny Hockey is a big deal.

johnny Hockey is a big deal, and nowhere more so than Philly (other than here).

I have a feeling that Bennett would become a beast in Philly.

Don't know what to think about that proposal, but I sure wouldn't want to add to it.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I don't see the Flyers moving Konecny or Couturier based on two things:

1) They are two of their top players in the top 6
2) Both are on cap friendly deals, which are desperately needed with the cap staying flat.

We need a defenseman, so I would accept one of the following:

The Flyers' 2020 1st, Sanheim, and Frost
or
The Flyers 2020 1st, 2021 2nd (1st if they make it to the 2021 ECFs, Patrick, and Myers. The extra conditional 1st/2nd pick is basically because of the uncertainty in Patrick.

I would prefer to keep Gaudreau for a season more to see how well we do with Hall (assuming we sign him) and Gaudreau on the same team, on different/same lines. If we falter once more with the both of them, then obviously trade JG before the NTC kicks in (at the 2021 draft), which would be before the 2022 season.