2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Really depends on if the Flames believe that long term sustained success is a more viable option than trying to get over the top with this core. Luckily majority of this core are under 26 years old. Adding two top picks from Jersey nets you potentially Lucas Raymond and Seth Jarvis on top of Gusev who is a good enough replacement in the short term. Boqvist is pretty a pretty good Center who could slot in at the 2C spot.

Gusev regardless of age isn't a major drop off in production from Johnny on a vastly inferior team this year.

I dont know, if you're getting Hall and your LW looks like Tkachuk, Hall, Mangiapane, you more than covered for moving Johnny. Adding Gusev to the #2RW slot is perfect. Boqvist playing Center surrounded by Backlind and Ryan is pretty good too IMO. A young Center in a good slot at 3C.

Gives good balance overall, AND you get some good magic bean chances.

I also wouldn't mind Mcleod included in the trade either.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Would you consider Cozens to be a risk? I still think that if they can get Cozens, 8OA and Miller, it's the deal to take. I think Cozens could step in and be second behind Monahan for a couple of years until he becomes the #1C. There aren't 'many deals out there where we are going to get a player of equal value back. It's the time for the Flames to plug up some other holes, Cozens looks like a future elite C and with the #8 pick they're getting a high end prospect, one of the forwards listed, Drysdale or even Askarov which would be HUGE for the team's future. Miller looks like he could step in and play in the top 4 and really help the loss of Hamonic and Brodie.

The team would have to be confident that Cozens is able to step in and play at this level. I'm not so sure. If he was like Frost and had that season of pro under his belt I would be much more confident. As it is I suspect he's going back to junior. The COVID break is likely to put the breaks on development and teams will be much more inclined to watch a young guy go through a period of success and domination before pushing him forward. I think he would be going back with the expectation of him representing at the WJHC and showing where he stands. To me, Cozens has to come back, dominate at junior another year, be a big player on the international stage, and show he is an elite player before I buy the hype. This is why I like Frost so much. He dominated two years of junior, went to the WJHC for his country, lead the team in scoring and won gold, stepped into pro and was the best player on his team, then got a short audition on a pretty good squad. He's stepping up and has a track record of stepping up. I have to see the same from Cozens.

Not sure how I feel about Miller. For what he is making he needs to play top four, but I'm not sure he's a top four defenseman. He's a serviceable guy, but I don't think he's as good as we need to backfill the hole in the lineup. He might be, but at that salary, he has to be. This is where having Lucic on the club makes deals like this that much more difficult. You could accept bringing in a guy that maybe is a little overpaid for what he brings, but with Lucic in the mix, everyone has to punch above their salary to get value.

I don't mind this deal so long as the team is 100% certain on the players that they will be stepping in and contributing. There is no player in this deal that you can immediately point to and say, "Yes, this guy is going to prevent us from taking a step backward because we lose Johnny."

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

44 points in 66gp in a 2nd line role.

58 points in 70 gp in top line top PP role.

Its not that massive. Especially considering the Idea is that Taylor Hall is signing too. Its greater balance.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I might consider 10+13+Gusev... but I don't think it's enough. Jersey doesn't really make a good trading partner for us, unless they would trade Hischier and I think that's crazy to consider.

Would be nice though. You add what it takes if you can pry Hischier out of there. Like I said before, I would even include Hanifin and Dube. NJ still says no, Hischier is going to be an absolute stud 200 foot player.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Adding two top picks from Jersey nets you the potential Lucas Raymond and Seth Jarvis on top of Gusev who is a good enough replacement in the short term.

Fixed that comment for you. You are getting nothing but potential players. Who knows what happens after you call their names. Whether they find their way to the NHL is a complete unknown as is the schedule of how long it takes.

Back to Gusev, no he's not a good enough replacement. He has zero track record to confidently say he would be able to step up and be a good replacement for the loss of Gaudreau. There is a 14 point gap between players as far as scoring goes. That is concerning. It should also be pointed out that he's being paid $4.5M and has one more year on that contract before he becomes an UFA. Too much risk.

Boqvist is pretty a pretty good Center who could slot in at the 2C spot.

Could be a pretty good center. Another one of those potential players. Definitely is not going to be stepping in and play ahead of Backlund, even if you surround him with solid players. Still a ton to learn and has not had much success in North America yet. I think if the Flames got him they would send him to the farm to develop.

Gusev regardless of age isn't a major drop off in production from Johnny on a vastly inferior team this year.

yeah, 14 points in a shortened season is not that much.

I dont know, if you're getting Hall and your LW looks like Tkachuk, Hall, Mangiapane, you more than covered for moving Johnny. Adding Gusev to the #2RW slot is perfect. Boqvist playing Center surrounded by Backlind and Ryan is pretty good too IMO. A young Center in a good slot at 3C.

Gives good balance overall, AND you get some good magic bean chances.

I also wouldn't mind Mcleod included in the trade either.

I like the structure of the deal. A RW, a center, and some future. That is the solid foundation for a deal. I just don't like the players. I would rather work with a team that has fully baked players that can step in and contribute right now than take on a bunch of development issues and waiting for them to bloom.

[bax]

I’ve posted something similar before, but I’m going to post it again. Some Flames fans are grossly underrating what Gaudreau has brought to this team.

Between 2016 and 2019 Gaudreau placed 5th in the league amongst forwards in 5 on 5 scoring rate (2.58/60). The top 10 is:

Mcdavid
Kucherov
Marchand
Matthews
Gaudreau
Malkin
Kane
Crosby
Panarin
Guentzal

During the same time period only one player in the entire league was in on a higher percentage of his teams on ice 5 on 5 points and that was Mcdavid.

Consider that Gaudreau has primarily played with Monahan as his center and it’s amazing. Nothing wrong with Monahan, but he isn’t an elite play driving center. Look at who the other guys on that list play with.

Gaudreau is the best offensive player the Flames have had since Iginla and the straw that stirs the drink on this team.

Taylor Hall doesn’t replace that, and Nikita Gusev certainly doesn’t even come close to replacing that. If you’re trading away Gaudreau you better be sure you’re getting an amazing return.

The only reason you trade Gaudreau is if you have confirmation he won’t be signing here because if you’re trading him it’s extremely probable you aren’t making the team better.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Would you consider Cozens to be a risk? I still think that if they can get Cozens, 8OA and Miller, it's the deal to take. I think Cozens could step in and be second behind Monahan for a couple of years until he becomes the #1C. There aren't 'many deals out there where we are going to get a player of equal value back. It's the time for the Flames to plug up some other holes, Cozens looks like a future elite C and with the #8 pick they're getting a high end prospect, one of the forwards listed, Drysdale or even Askarov which would be HUGE for the team's future. Miller looks like he could step in and play in the top 4 and really help the loss of Hamonic and Brodie.

Too much.

Doubt the Sabres are willing to part with Cozens, the 8th, plus a RHS D in his prime for two years of JG.

EDIT: if they are, you take it and run.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by bax

I’ve posted something similar before, but I’m going to post it again. Some Flames fans are grossly underrating what Gaudreau has brought to this team.

Between 2016 and 2019 Gaudreau placed 5th in the league amongst forwards in 5 on 5 scoring rate (2.58/60). The top 10 is:

Mcdavid
Kucherov
Marchand
Matthews
Gaudreau
Malkin
Kane
Crosby
Panarin
Guentzal

During the same time period only one player in the entire league was in on a higher percentage of his teams on ice 5 on 5 points and that was Mcdavid.

Consider that Gaudreau has primarily played with Monahan as his center and it’s amazing. Nothing wrong with Monahan, but he isn’t an elite play driving center. Look at who the other guys on that list play with.

Gaudreau is the best offensive player the Flames have had since Iginla and the straw that stirs the drink on this team.

Taylor Hall doesn’t replace that, and Nikita Gusev certainly doesn’t even come close to replacing that. If you’re trading away Gaudreau you better be sure you’re getting an amazing return.

The only reason you trade Gaudreau is if you have confirmation he won’t be signing here because if you’re trading him it’s extremely probable you aren’t making the team better.

Why aren’t there more of you around here?

Instead I open every thread and see trade Johnny chatter.

I thought we want to get better?

Trading Johnny doesn’t achieve that, we need to continue to add good pieces around guys like Johnny, Monny, Chucky, Lindholm, Mangiapane, Dube, Andersson, Valimaki, Hanifin and Rittich.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by dammage79

44 points in 66gp in a 2nd line role.

58 points in 70 gp in top line top PP role.

Its not that massive. Especially considering the Idea is that Taylor Hall is signing too. Its greater balance.

Lol this guy

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Why aren’t there more of you around here?

Instead I open every thread and see trade Johnny chatter.

I thought we want to get better?

Trading Johnny doesn’t achieve that, we need to continue to add good pieces around guys like Johnny, Monny, Chucky, Lindholm, Mangiapane, Dube, Andersson, Valimaki, Hanifin and Rittich.

I was leaning towards a Gaudreau trade if the Flames could sign Hall, but I've shifted and would rather keep Johnny even if they sign Hall and give it a go for a year.

I just wish we had one more decent center option to slot in between Mony and Backs without having to shift Lindholm to C.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by New Era

If the main return for Gaudreau is built around a pick outside the top three that is a huge failure. You will not get Taylor Hall to sign here if you're removing a top six player from a team that is need of another top six player or two. If the Flames deal Gaudreau they need to get back a top six talent that will play and contribute immediately. Otherwise this team takes yet another step backward. The focus on draft picks is crazy. They are total wild cards. Here's a list of the players selected at the draft slots being talked about. I'm going back from 2017 since most players take a couple years to show their potential to make the jump.

2017 - Lias Andersson (7), Owen Tippett (10), Nick Suzuki (13)
2016 - Clayton Keller, Tyson Jost, Jake Bean
2015 - Ivan Provorov, Mikko Rantanen, Jakub Zboril
2014 - Hayden Fleury, Nick Ritchie, Jakub Vrana
2013 - Darnell Nurse, Valeri Nichushkin, Josh Morrisey
2012 - Matt Dumba, Slater Koekkoek, Radek Faksa
2011 - Mark Scheifele, Jonas Brodin, Sven Baertschi
2010 - Jeff Skinner, Dylan McIlrath, Brandon Gormley
2009 - Nazim Kadri, Magnus Paajavi, Zack Kassian
2008 - Colin Wilson, Cody Hodgson, Colton Teubert
2007 - Jakub Voracek, Keaton Ellerby, Lars Eller
2006 - Kyle Okposo, Michael Frolik, Jiri Tlusty
2005 - Jack Skille, Luc Bourdon, Marek Zagrapan
2004 - Rostislav Olesz, Boris Valabik, Drew Stafford
2003 - Ryan Suter, Andrei Kostitsyn, Dustin Brown
2002 - Joffrey Lupul, Eric Nystrom, Alexander Semin
2001 - Mike Komisarek, Dan Blackburn, Ales Hemsky
2000 - Lars Jonsson, Mikhail Yakubov, Ron Hainsey

That is ugly. Not many stars on that list. A lot of guys were middling players, and a lot of names that didn't pan out. Risk with picks is crazy. I don't want to roll the dice when moving Gaudreau. I want players that are pretty well baked and you know what you are getting. If we don't get back a top flight player to contribute immediately, and some players on the verge with good potential, this has to be considered a failure. Dealing stars for draft picks is a clear indication of a rebuild. If we only get a handful of magic beans (picks) I would hope Treliving is shown the door.

Fixed some of the bolding. Those are solid players with significant upside. It looks like a renaissance in drafting ability since 2010.

As for why the Johnny talk, it's due to reports that JG won't sign an extension here and would in the east, and that his NTC kicks in the last year, making this offseason the prime time to sell.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Fixed some of the bolding. Those are solid players with significant upside. It looks like a renaissance in drafting ability since 2010.

As for why the Johnny talk, it's due to reports that JG won't sign an extension here and would in the east, and that his NTC kicks in the last year, making this offseason the prime time to sell.

Yet that is all speculation, even in Francis and Leslie's opinions. If anything, there is more evidence from what JG himself has said over past interviews he would like to stay.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Fixed some of the bolding. Those are solid players with significant upside. It looks like a renaissance in drafting ability since 2010.

As for why the Johnny talk, it's due to reports that JG won't sign an extension here and would in the east, and that his NTC kicks in the last year, making this offseason the prime time to sell.

Where are the reports though? There are nothing more than rumors at this time. Regardless I trust Treliving to have a good handle on the situation.

[SportsJunky]

I can't find the quote from TheScorpion's podcast but the guys said "no way" is Gaudreau signing. Not, "I doubt it" or "I'm unsure if he'll sign here". I know that's not 100% confirmation but those guys are really sticking their necks out by saying that.

That's what swayed me to the trade Gaudreau side.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

It looks like a renaissance in drafting ability since 2010.

No, its recency bias. In another five or ten years we'll look back at those picks and think what a bunch of average players most of them were.

As for why the Johnny talk, it's due to reports that JG won't sign an extension here and would in the east, and that his NTC kicks in the last year, making this offseason the prime time to sell.

Johnny has a really close relationship with his family. It is tough for him to be on the other side of the continent in a different country with different social standards. I think it would help if Johnny would establish some roots in the Calgary area, but that just doesn't look like it is happening. He considers home to be the Philly area and has expressed a desire to play for the Flyers in interviews. It just doesn't seem likely that he will be a long-term Flame. I agree, if this is indeed his feelings, and the team would have a clear read on this, this off season is the one you make a trade.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by dammage79

44 points in 66gp in a 2nd line role.

58 points in 70 gp in top line top PP role.

Its not that massive. Especially considering the Idea is that Taylor Hall is signing too. Its greater balance.

This is also one of Johnny’s worst seasons.

Gusev has a very small sample size, Gaudreau has 445 points in 464 games.

[TheScorpion]

Wait why aren't Skinner, Kadri, Brown, Lupul, Hemsky, Eller, and even Komisarek, Frolik, and Okposo bolded on New Era's list? Those guys have all been excellent-to-very good players.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

This is also one of Johnny’s worst seasons.

Gusev has a very small sample size, Gaudreau has 445 points in 464 games.

We arent talking about Gusev 1 for 1 though. He is just one piece of a multi asset trade. Perspective is very important. I very specifically pointed out THIS season, 14 points in 4 less gp on an exponentially inferior team. I'm not saying he could produce more on the Flames, im saying the fact Gusev still produced only 14 points less with a mountain of factors against him. Why omit context in the discussion.

Yeah Gaudreau puts up points, its why he is so valuable. He's on a down year along with the rest of the team except Lindholm and Tkachuk. Everyone knows what he does on the Flames side. And none of this happens if what Leslie and others are saying is false. But Im of the belief they're correct.

All these talk are based on the premise that Hall is coming because everyone involved wants him in calgary. And Gaudreau is being traded to make room and because he won't re-sign.

And even if none of it is true and the Flames whimper put of the play in ypu know theres going to be major moves being made. Especially since the prior season ended embarrassingly after one of the best in team history. A down year ending in whimper with the core in their prime.window? Things will change.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Wait why aren't Skinner, Kadri, Brown, Lupul, Hemsky, Eller, and even Komisarek, Frolik, and Okposo bolded on New Era's list? Those guys have all been excellent-to-very good players.

I had the same thought. There are a lot of names in that list that would have positively impacted the team.

[Saqe]

Saw Gusev play a couple of times and his overall game was absolutely brutal. Yes there is some offensive skill there but he also got benched for a reason, several times IIRC. Maybe he can get better at that but it's not like he's young.