2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[jg13]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Well Philly would be much more likely to accept this offer than Buffalo would be. Plus they would be willing to offer a lot more.

Plus, the Flyers know that Johnny would be much more likely to re-resign with them. His chances of re-signing in Buffalo would be much lower. Philly just makes way more sense, and I think it's borderline silly to even brainstorm trade scenarios with Buffalo - especially when you're demanding Cozens and an 8th (in an extremely strong draft).

Obviously they would. That Philly package is terrible and they get their hometown boy.

The Sabres are sick of drafting and waiting for help. They basically have to sell assets for help now or Eichel is going to ask for a trade. 8th OA and Cozens for a PPG winger isn't a stretch IMO especially for a desperate team.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by jg13

Obviously they would. That Philly package is terrible and they get their hometown boy.

The Sabres are sick of drafting and waiting for help. They basically have to sell assets for help now or Eichel is going to ask for a trade. 8th OA and Cozens for a PPG winger isn't a stretch IMO especially for a desperate team.

Yes, so obviously Philly would probably add to that offer, while Buffalo probably wouldn't make that offer in the first place. My point is that Philly would be willing to offer a lot more.

Eichel has tons of term left and has no leverage.
Buffalo's fans are among the most knowledgeable of the American fan bases. Their management knows that their fans aren't stupid enough to mortgage the future to make a rebuilding team into a bubble team. Just look at their forums. Eichel is going nowhere, regardless of their performance.

An 8th OA and Cozens (7th OA) is a huge stretch for 2 years of Johnny.

Not to mention, Buffalo doesn't even have that much cap space moving forward. Eichel and Skinner alone make nearly 20 million a year. Okposo and Ristolainen have long anchor contracts. Olofsson is due for a huge raise. As are Reinhart and Montour.
Their only tradeable pieces with some cap are Johansson and Miller. But they have considerable value on their own.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Yes, so obviously Philly would probably add to that offer, while Buffalo probably wouldn't make that offer in the first place. My point is that Philly would be willing to offer a lot more.

Eichel has tons of term left and has no leverage.
Buffalo's fans are among the most knowledgeable of the American fan bases. Their management knows that their fans aren't stupid enough to mortgage the future to make a rebuilding team into a bubble team. Just look at their forums. Eichel is going nowhere, regardless of their performance.

An 8th OA and Cozens (7th OA) is a huge stretch for 2 years of Johnny.

Not to mention, Buffalo doesn't even have that much cap space moving forward. Eichel and Skinner alone make nearly 20 million a year. Okposo and Ristolainen have long anchor contracts. Olofsson is due for a huge raise. As are Reinhart and Montour.
Their only tradeable pieces with some cap are Johansson and Miller. But they have considerable value on their own.

Buffalo has significantly more cap flexibility than Philly. Buffalo has $35M this summer. Philly has Giroux and Voracek over $8M and JVR and Hayes over $7M with a lot of guys they will need to pay in the next couple of years.

Not sure why they are willing to pay more than Buffalo? They were a top team this year where Buffalo just missed for the 9th straight year and their franchise player said he is getting frustrated.

Johnny doesn’t have a say where he goes so the Flames can send him wherever. I think any team in the east outside of the Canadian teams would have a great chance to re-sign Johnny. New Jersey also has the pieces and flexibility.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Sanheim would be protected. Giordano would be left unprotected.

If Seattle decides to take Giordano, then that's on them. They could have gotten someone young like Kylington.

Gio simply has way more value than Kylington, even as a trade chip.

Gio would be an easy pick for a Seattle. They could flip him for some pretty good assets if they choose too, or he could become their captain.


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[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Acquiring voracek is such a laughably ridiculous proposition. His contract makes it futile to consider and no way could we afford hall while icing a proper defense afterwards. If we're trading johnny we can't take back a longer, bigger contract from a 30+ player on the decline

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I picture Voracek at 35 and 36 years old making over 8 million and its a frightening thought.

I will say that I think he'd be solid for at least the next couple seasons though, which is a crucial couple of years for this core with Gio and Backlund et al. He's a hell of a set up man so Monahan would still be lighting the lamp 30+ times a year probably, and if you add Hall to that mix it'd be a really high end first line.

Frost would most likely have a nice transition to the NHL as well if Tkachuk and Lindholm were his wingers.

And there is a lot to like about Myers. I think in another year or two he will be untouchable if he isn't already. A damn shame the Flames didn't sign him when they had the chance.

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Neither Frost or Myers has the upside of a player like Johnny and Voracek is a contract that will look uglier every year it is on the books.

Teams sure have success with a bunch of 31-37 year olds eating up 32% of the cap and that is what this deal does to the Flames. Voracek, Gio, Backlund and Lucic. This team hasn’t won anything but they are somehow locked into an aging core. But they got some average you g pieces back. Maybe Frost can make it on the second line some day? Could be he is only a 3rd liner. Pretty average numbers for a guy drafted 3 years ago already. Myers could be a second pairing guy but he now needs to be protected over the Captain which makes sense but now your trade has cost this team Gaudreau and Giordano without bringing back a single elite piece. This somehow sets the team up long term?

A top 10 pick in this coming draft immediately becomes a better asset than Frost. Not tying up $8.25M in Voracek allows them to take a run at Taylor Hall. Your deal prices them out immediately by adding significant cap.

It is like there is zero thought of the cap or expansion draft?

Please acknowledge the reality of the situation. You are not moving Gaudreau and NOT taking salary back. This is the reality of trades in the NHL. The salaries have to pretty much balance out. Going to Philly would be $10M in salary and coming back to Calgary would be $9.8M. That balances out makes it work for the bean counters.

I really want to know what gives anyone the impression that Voracek is slowing down and will be a risky proposition going forward? He is playing the same game and being just as effective as he has always been. He's proven to be durable and is a top player at his position. Why is he going to all of a sudden going to drop off a cliff? You have answer that question especially when many of you are suggesting the Flames waste an expansion protection slot in a 38 Mark Giordano, who I guess bathes in the fountain of youth every morning. Those two positions are not consistent in any way.

It is hilarious to watch the same people who dump all over one player (Frost) yet walk around with a boner over another similar player. (Cozens) You do understand that Frost and Cozens put up similar numbers (PPG) in their draft +1, Frost being more of a setup man and Cozens being more a finisher? Oh, but Frost doesn't have the upside because he wasn't drafted top 10 like Cozens, amiright? It is down right laughable to watch the theatrics of people trying to dump on a player they know nothing about. You only look at draft position, like that matters a whole helluva lot (right Sam Bennett), and think that makes one player better than another. What matters is what happens after you're drafted. Frost ripped up the OHL in back-to-back years after he was drafted (112 and 109 points), leading his team in scoring by 27 and then 32 points, the later while playing eight less games than his closest team mate. Then the silly refrain of "Frost didn't put up a PPG in the minors" comes up. Yeah, he didn't. He only put up 29 points in 41 games. But is anyone one aware that the leading scorer for Leigh Valley put up 30 points in 57 games played? The kid is a stud plain and simple. The Flames would be damn lucky to get a player of his caliber back in any trade.

The ignorance on Myers is also very frustrating. The kid actually has the potential to solidify our back end for years to come. If you can shake loose a big RD just coming into his own in this deal you do it and laugh your way to the bank. Myers has top four potential written all over him. Just scored 16 points in 50 games played and was a sparkling +17, second best on the Flyers behind Couturier. With Myers in the fold you then have a post-Giordano top four of Hanafin-Andersson and Valimaki-Myers. All currently under the age of 24. Again, fills a need a sets the team up for success.

The reality of moving Gaudreau is you're not going to be getting a player of similar stature. You're going to have to make a deal for parts that have some pimples and come with some risk. Just like the Dougie Hamilton deal. Hamilton was the best player in the deal, but the Flames got (at the time) the next best two players. This is what to expect with a trade of Gaudreau. The Flames have an opportunity to fill numerous gaps in a single deal. They should do it and not roll the dice on unknown quantities at the draft table. I would hope that the hill of beans we got for Iginla would drive that point home.

Oh, and for historical perspective, when the Flames dealt away Nieuwendyk they did a similar deal, taking on Corey Millen and an untouted player in Jarome Iginla, instead of the higher regarded Todd Harvey, who was drafted two picks earlier. The critics were very vocal about this "mistake" and how the Flames should have held out for the better prospect. Sometimes draft position doesn't mean a hill of beans.

[dissentowner]

The Athletic recently debunked the Harvey rumour. The Flames were always targeting Iginla, they didn't want Harvey.

[Geeoff]

I think it's funny how one interview during a road game in Philly like 2 years ago, turned Gaudreau for Couturier into the most discussed trade on this forum LOL.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

The Athletic recently debunked the Harvey rumour. The Flames were always targeting Iginla, they didn't want Harvey.

Didn't say they were pursuing Harvey. I said the response from the critics were they should have gone after Harvey, you know, because he was the better prospect because of his draft position. That was the hand wringing back then and the same silly trope holds in current discussions. Draft position doesn't mean squat. Sam Bennett is obviously the better player than David Pastrnak because one was drafted top 10 and the other was drafted in the mid-20s. Lets not even look outside the first round as all those players are crap. I mean Braden Point (79) or Kevin Leblanc (171) won't amount to anything being drafted so low. This is something people have to get by. Good players are good players regardless of their draft position.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by New Era

Please acknowledge the reality of the situation. You are not moving Gaudreau and NOT taking salary back. This is the reality of trades in the NHL. The salaries have to pretty much balance out. Going to Philly would be $10M in salary and coming back to Calgary would be $9.8M. That balances out makes it work for the bean counters.

I really want to know what gives anyone the impression that Voracek is slowing down and will be a risky proposition going forward? He is playing the same game and being just as effective as he has always been. He's proven to be durable and is a top player at his position. Why is he going to all of a sudden going to drop off a cliff? You have answer that question especially when many of you are suggesting the Flames waste an expansion protection slot in a 38 Mark Giordano, who I guess bathes in the fountain of youth every morning. Those two positions are not consistent in any way.

It is hilarious to watch the same people who dump all over one player (Frost) yet walk around with a boner over another similar player. (Cozens) You do understand that Frost and Cozens put up similar numbers (PPG) in their draft +1, Frost being more of a setup man and Cozens being more a finisher? Oh, but Frost doesn't have the upside because he wasn't drafted top 10 like Cozens, amiright? It is down right laughable to watch the theatrics of people trying to dump on a player they know nothing about. You only look at draft position, like that matters a whole helluva lot (right Sam Bennett), and think that makes one player better than another. What matters is what happens after you're drafted. Frost ripped up the OHL in back-to-back years after he was drafted (112 and 109 points), leading his team in scoring by 27 and then 32 points, the later while playing eight less games than his closest team mate. Then the silly refrain of "Frost didn't put up a PPG in the minors" comes up. Yeah, he didn't. He only put up 29 points in 41 games. But is anyone one aware that the leading scorer for Leigh Valley put up 30 points in 57 games played? The kid is a stud plain and simple. The Flames would be damn lucky to get a player of his caliber back in any trade.

The ignorance on Myers is also very frustrating. The kid actually has the potential to solidify our back end for years to come. If you can shake loose a big RD just coming into his own in this deal you do it and laugh your way to the bank. Myers has top four potential written all over him. Just scored 16 points in 50 games played and was a sparkling +17, second best on the Flyers behind Couturier. With Myers in the fold you then have a post-Giordano top four of Hanafin-Andersson and Valimaki-Myers. All currently under the age of 24. Again, fills a need a sets the team up for success.

The reality of moving Gaudreau is you're not going to be getting a player of similar stature. You're going to have to make a deal for parts that have some pimples and come with some risk. Just like the Dougie Hamilton deal. Hamilton was the best player in the deal, but the Flames got (at the time) the next best two players. This is what to expect with a trade of Gaudreau. The Flames have an opportunity to fill numerous gaps in a single deal. They should do it and not roll the dice on unknown quantities at the draft table. I would hope that the hill of beans we got for Iginla would drive that point home.

Oh, and for historical perspective, when the Flames dealt away Nieuwendyk they did a similar deal, taking on Corey Millen and an untouted player in Jarome Iginla, instead of the higher regarded Todd Harvey, who was drafted two picks earlier. The critics were very vocal about this "mistake" and how the Flames should have held out for the better prospect. Sometimes draft position doesn't mean a hill of beans.

I'm a little more than half way there with you haha

Frost and Myers are excellent pieces for the future, and like I said in the post you quoted, I'm confident Voracek would still be a very useful player for at least a couple more seasons. It'd be nicer if you could get the Flyers to retain a little bit on his contract, even $750k so that his AAV drops to $7.5m and Gaudreau's AAV + the Voracek retention would also be $7.5m.

If the Flames do your proposed deal they also need to have Hall in the fold, and then they are in a cap nightmare situation.

[Vinny01]

Money in money out is not as necessary when the trade is made in the offseason. The Devils and Sabres can easily take back Johnny’s contract and send little to no cap back the other way.

The Flames certainly do not need to take the more expensive and older player when they are moving the best player in the trade. This proposed trade accomplishes very little of why I think the Flames should move Gaudreau.

For me if Taylor Hall is not signing here I don’t even trade Johnny this summer. In order to sign Hall and fill out the roster they need to shed some money. Getting most of Johnny’s cap hit off without taking back another expensive piece allows them to have the flexibility to sign Hall.

Rather not take back a bunch of pieces that need expansion protection. This deal adds 3 pieces that require protection. It exposes Gio and at least one of Dube, Mangipane, Frost unless they are exposing Voracek which would make sense. Johnny is traded for depth and in one year that depth is lessened by expansion.

The whole Frost over Cozens arguement screams Frost fanboy to me. There was literally an article written yesterday on the top 50 drafted prospects and Cozens was 1 while Frost was 28th. One is a big center with speed the other is an average sized, and average at best skating. Comparing stats across the CHL leagues can be tricky and the Dub is typically known as the lower scoring league of the 3.

To each their own but I prefer a top draft pick in the upcoming draft as the centerpiece of the deal. If we are looking at the Hamilton deal a player like Reinhart is who you target not Frost. The Hamilton trade brought in 2 former 5th overall picks who had yet to breakout. Morgan Frost to me is a Dillon Dube comparable. Good player to have but not the one you give up your best offensive player for.

New Era’s deal shakes the Flames up but leaves no room to add Hall in free agency and exposes more talent to expansion. That coupled with the Voracek contract that is overpaid today for 60pts and is unlikely to look any better with a flat cap and more years and miles on the body.

Give up the best player and get back the oldest player with the biggest contract? Those trades always work out.

Why don’t we shift focus and package Backlund, Dube and Andersson for a top 5 RW in the game? Maybe we can get Brayden Point for that because he is from Calgary?

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by jg13

Obviously they would. That Philly package is terrible and they get their hometown boy.

The Sabres are sick of drafting and waiting for help. They basically have to sell assets for help now or Eichel is going to ask for a trade. 8th OA and Cozens for a PPG winger isn't a stretch IMO especially for a desperate team.

If you want 8th OA and Cozens, i would have to think flames would need to take back a bunch of cap in trade. Cap money is going to be a huge trading chip this off season.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Cap space is the new currency. With the cap staying flat, good luck with finding a suitor that will take Gaudreau's contract without taking cap back.

Yes, I know Johnny is good, but Johnny also needs a new contract in 2 years. You have to take that consideration. If we take back cap, we'll get more of a return, but possibly losing out on Taylor Hall. If we trade Gaudreau without a lot of cap coming back, then you best believe we won't get the desired return on our elite LW.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Gio simply has way more value than Kylington, even as a trade chip.

Gio would be an easy pick for a Seattle. They could flip him for some pretty good assets if they choose too, or he could become their captain.


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Good for them, we lose out on probably 2-3 years of Giordano (assuming he doesn't come back to us), and Seattle loses out on an up-and-coming defenseman that could have the potential to really break out if he got more ice time elsewhere.

I wouldn't fault them for taking Giordano for the potential to get a high draft pick later on. But, let's say Giordano regresses worse and just nets them a 2nd round pick and a prospect. In my opinion, the better long-term investment would have been taking the young 23 year old.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Cap space is the new currency. With the cap staying flat, good luck with finding a suitor that will take Gaudreau's contract without taking cap back.

Yes, I know Johnny is good, but Johnny also needs a new contract in 2 years. You have to take that consideration. If we take back cap, we'll get more of a return, but possibly losing out on Taylor Hall. If we trade Gaudreau without a lot of cap coming back, then you best believe we won't get the desired return on our elite LW.

Your point is exactly why Johnny should have more value than what is being discussed here. Buffalo and New Jersey can take back the cap without sending much of any back.

The cap is flat for 2-3 years and the Flames are potentially putting a top 10 scorer in the league with a 6.75M cap hit on the market. His value should be that much higher because of his low cap hit.

If Taylor Hall is not coming here then I keep Johnny for another year. I just think that Hall wants to be here. Add him to replace Johnny today and the main pieces coming back would be a high pick or top end prospect.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Cap space is the new currency. With the cap staying flat, good luck with finding a suitor that will take Gaudreau's contract without taking cap back.

Yes, I know Johnny is good, but Johnny also needs a new contract in 2 years. You have to take that consideration. If we take back cap, we'll get more of a return, but possibly losing out on Taylor Hall. If we trade Gaudreau without a lot of cap coming back, then you best believe we won't get the desired return on our elite LW.

Yes, this whole narrative of not having the cap space to make the Philly deal is not accurate. Here's what I propose.

Move one: Sign Taylor Hall @ 6 years $45M (probably market value).

Move two: Trade Gaudreau, Jankowski, and Kylington to Philadelphia for Voracek, Frost, and Myers

Move three: Trade Bennett to Columbus for Anderson

Move four: Sign Alex Petrovic @ $700K and re-up Talbot or similar goaltender at the same contract.

Hall ($9.0)-Monahan ($6.375)-Voracek ($8.25)
Tkachuk ($7.0) -Frost ($.863)-Lindholm ($4.85)
Dube ($.784)-Backlund ($5.35)-Anderson ($2.25)
Mangipagne ($1.25)-Ryan ($3.125)-Gawdin ($.800)
Rieder ($.700)

$50.597

Giordano ($6.75)-Anderson ($4.55)
Hanafin ($4.95)-Myers ($2.5)
Forbort ($2.0)-Petrovic ($.700)
Yelesin ($.925)

$22.375

Rittich ($2.75)
Talbot ($2.75)

$5.5

$78.472 cap hit ($2.528 cap space) with appropriate space and movement opportunities for contract bumps in the future. Don't believe me?

Matthew Tkachuk comes due in 22-23. Derek Ryan's $3.125 comes off the books in at the end of 20-21. Tkachuk will likely be in that $8.5-9M range. Ryan's contract covers the need and leaves an extra $1.125-1.625 on the table for a replacement 4th line center.

The RFAs we have to be concerned about are Dube at the end of 20-21, which should require a modest bump, and Valimaki who hasn't played in a year. No major bump is happening there. The only concern would be Frost, but you cross that bridge when you come to it. There is room to make moves if need be. $5.35 on a third line center may be a number the Flames reconsider, or maybe Lucic follows through on his threat from earlier this year and does elect to pull the plug. Problems solved. The most important thing the Flames can do is continue to bring cheap young talent in the door and keep those bottom salaries in check.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by New Era

Please acknowledge the reality of the situation. You are not moving Gaudreau and NOT taking salary back. This is the reality of trades in the NHL. The salaries have to pretty much balance out. Going to Philly would be $10M in salary and coming back to Calgary would be $9.8M. That balances out makes it work for the bean counters.

I really want to know what gives anyone the impression that Voracek is slowing down and will be a risky proposition going forward? He is playing the same game and being just as effective as he has always been. He's proven to be durable and is a top player at his position. Why is he going to all of a sudden going to drop off a cliff? You have answer that question especially when many of you are suggesting the Flames waste an expansion protection slot in a 38 Mark Giordano, who I guess bathes in the fountain of youth every morning. Those two positions are not consistent in any way.

It is hilarious to watch the same people who dump all over one player (Frost) yet walk around with a boner over another similar player. (Cozens) You do understand that Frost and Cozens put up similar numbers (PPG) in their draft +1, Frost being more of a setup man and Cozens being more a finisher? Oh, but Frost doesn't have the upside because he wasn't drafted top 10 like Cozens, amiright? It is down right laughable to watch the theatrics of people trying to dump on a player they know nothing about. You only look at draft position, like that matters a whole helluva lot (right Sam Bennett), and think that makes one player better than another. What matters is what happens after you're drafted. Frost ripped up the OHL in back-to-back years after he was drafted (112 and 109 points), leading his team in scoring by 27 and then 32 points, the later while playing eight less games than his closest team mate. Then the silly refrain of "Frost didn't put up a PPG in the minors" comes up. Yeah, he didn't. He only put up 29 points in 41 games. But is anyone one aware that the leading scorer for Leigh Valley put up 30 points in 57 games played? The kid is a stud plain and simple. The Flames would be damn lucky to get a player of his caliber back in any trade.

The ignorance on Myers is also very frustrating. The kid actually has the potential to solidify our back end for years to come. If you can shake loose a big RD just coming into his own in this deal you do it and laugh your way to the bank. Myers has top four potential written all over him. Just scored 16 points in 50 games played and was a sparkling +17, second best on the Flyers behind Couturier. With Myers in the fold you then have a post-Giordano top four of Hanafin-Andersson and Valimaki-Myers. All currently under the age of 24. Again, fills a need a sets the team up for success.

The reality of moving Gaudreau is you're not going to be getting a player of similar stature. You're going to have to make a deal for parts that have some pimples and come with some risk. Just like the Dougie Hamilton deal. Hamilton was the best player in the deal, but the Flames got (at the time) the next best two players. This is what to expect with a trade of Gaudreau. The Flames have an opportunity to fill numerous gaps in a single deal. They should do it and not roll the dice on unknown quantities at the draft table. I would hope that the hill of beans we got for Iginla would drive that point home.

Oh, and for historical perspective, when the Flames dealt away Nieuwendyk they did a similar deal, taking on Corey Millen and an untouted player in Jarome Iginla, instead of the higher regarded Todd Harvey, who was drafted two picks earlier. The critics were very vocal about this "mistake" and how the Flames should have held out for the better prospect. Sometimes draft position doesn't mean a hill of beans.

Please acknowledge the reality that the team you proposed wouldn't be able to limp into the playoffs next season, let alone 2 seasons from now with Voracek eating a huge chunk of the cap and likely being worthless.

Myers is a great pickup, and should undoutedly be part of the return from Philly. to me the philly trade looks like this:

Patrick or Frost (I personally prefer Patrick) + Myers+ Sanheim + 1st 2020

The salary absolutely does work for philly to take on Johnny.
In fact, there are multiple teams that can take on johnny and his value contract while delivering us much less salary in return. You make it sound so cut and dry, but value contracts like Johnny's hold even more return value over the next few years with a flat cap. Players with large value and little impetus to trade (from our end) can absolutely be traded without aligning the salary.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by New Era

Yes, this whole narrative of not having the cap space to make the Philly deal is not accurate. Here's what I propose.

Move one: Sign Taylor Hall @ 6 years $45M (probably market value).

Move two: Trade Gaudreau, Jankowski, and Kylington to Philadelphia for Voracek, Frost, and Myers

Move three: Trade Bennett to Columbus for Anderson

Move four: Sign Alex Petrovic @ $700K and re-up Talbot or similar goaltender at the same contract.

Hall ($9.0)-Monahan ($6.375)-Voracek ($8.25)
Tkachuk ($7.0) -Frost ($.863)-Lindholm ($4.85)
Dube ($.784)-Backlund ($5.35)-Anderson ($2.25)
Mangipagne ($1.25)-Ryan ($3.125)-Gawdin ($.800)
Rieder ($.700)

$50.597

Giordano ($6.75)-Anderson ($4.55)
Hanafin ($4.95)-Myers ($2.5)
Forbort ($2.0)-Petrovic ($.700)
Yelesin ($.925)

$22.375

Rittich ($2.75)
Talbot ($2.75)

$5.5

$78.472 cap hit ($2.528 cap space) with appropriate space and movement opportunities for contract bumps in the future. Don't believe me?

Matthew Tkachuk comes due in 22-23. Derek Ryan's $3.125 comes off the books in at the end of 20-21. Tkachuk will likely be in that $8.5-9M range. Ryan's contract covers the need and leaves an extra $1.125-1.625 on the table for a replacement 4th line center.

The RFAs we have to be concerned about are Dube at the end of 20-21, which should require a modest bump, and Valimaki who hasn't played in a year. No major bump is happening there. The only concern would be Frost, but you cross that bridge when you come to it. There is room to make moves if need be. $5.35 on a third line center may be a number the Flames reconsider, or maybe Lucic follows through on his threat from earlier this year and does elect to pull the plug. Problems solved. The most important thing the Flames can do is continue to bring cheap young talent in the door and keep those bottom salaries in check.

Where did Lucic go?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by New Era

Yes, this whole narrative of not having the cap space to make the Philly deal is not accurate. Here's what I propose.

Move one: Sign Taylor Hall @ 6 years $45M (probably market value).

Move two: Trade Gaudreau, Jankowski, and Kylington to Philadelphia for Voracek, Frost, and Myers

Move three: Trade Bennett to Columbus for Anderson

Move four: Sign Alex Petrovic @ $700K and re-up Talbot or similar goaltender at the same contract.

Hall ($9.0)-Monahan ($6.375)-Voracek ($8.25)
Tkachuk ($7.0) -Frost ($.863)-Lindholm ($4.85)
Dube ($.784)-Backlund ($5.35)-Anderson ($2.25)
Mangipagne ($1.25)-Ryan ($3.125)-Gawdin ($.800)
Rieder ($.700)

$50.597

Giordano ($6.75)-Anderson ($4.55)
Hanafin ($4.95)-Myers ($2.5)
Forbort ($2.0)-Petrovic ($.700)
Yelesin ($.925)

$22.375

Rittich ($2.75)
Talbot ($2.75)

$5.5

$78.472 cap hit ($2.528 cap space) with appropriate space and movement opportunities for contract bumps in the future. Don't believe me?

Matthew Tkachuk comes due in 22-23. Derek Ryan's $3.125 comes off the books in at the end of 20-21. Tkachuk will likely be in that $8.5-9M range. Ryan's contract covers the need and leaves an extra $1.125-1.625 on the table for a replacement 4th line center.

The RFAs we have to be concerned about are Dube at the end of 20-21, which should require a modest bump, and Valimaki who hasn't played in a year. No major bump is happening there. The only concern would be Frost, but you cross that bridge when you come to it. There is room to make moves if need be. $5.35 on a third line center may be a number the Flames reconsider, or maybe Lucic follows through on his threat from earlier this year and does elect to pull the plug. Problems solved. The most important thing the Flames can do is continue to bring cheap young talent in the door and keep those bottom salaries in check.

Where is Lucic in your forward lineup and cap calculation?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Buffalo and New Jersey can take back the cap without sending much of any back.

You can't say that with certainty. Both of those teams have been internal cap teams for quite some time. They have not spent to the cap so it is not an automatic that they would just welcome another higher salary because they have space. It is much more likely that they make a deal they are going to stick to their internal constraints and send salary out.

If Taylor Hall is not coming here then I keep Johnny for another year. I just think that Hall wants to be here. Add him to replace Johnny today and the main pieces coming back would be a high pick or top end prospect.

I think Hall would like to be here even more if the team were stacked with more talent, giving him a better chance to win.

The love affair with the "high pick" is ridiculous. It's like winning a raffle where you have the choice of Mercedes SL550 or a 1-20 chance of winning a million dollars, then stating you're turning down the Mercedes because you're going to buy yourself a McLaren with the million dollars you're getting, when you don't yet have the million, you just have a chance at the million. Whats worse is that you didn't bother to read the fine print and then find out that your million bucks is paid out at $50K a year for 20 years, so even if you do win you end up with a new Hyundai in the end because that's the way things developed. Sometimes its best to take what appears to be the lesser because it is a known quantity.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Where did Lucic go?

Retired.