2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[dammage79]

Either deal works for me. But I'm of the belief Patrick is the biggest get of them all. Felt the same about Lindholm before that miracle occurred.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Just make the Couturier for Johnny package happen already.

[Roof-Daddy]

Taking Patrick back as the main piece for Gaudreau would be a massive gamble on the Flames part.

[Monahammer]

I think if you get cozens you won't also get the 8th. Conversely I feel like Patrick and the 25th isn't enough.

Patrick+sanheim or myers+ 25th for johnny +2nd or 3rd seems alright (I am also of the opinion patrick will turn it around.)

Cozens+risto/montour+buffalo 2nd for johnny
Or
8th overall+reinhart

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Taking Patrick back as the main piece for Gaudreau would be a massive gamble on the Flames part.

Agree. But I also think you dont get a shot a him unless it is this circumstance. Don't really care what it takes to get Gaudreau to Philly as long as Patrick is coming with the package.

[dissentowner]

If Patrick has his migraine issue under control I certainly would be interested as part of the deal for JG. I am not high on Frost at all. That does not mean he won't work out but I don't see it. I think the other NY area based teams can all offer better packages than Philly can. They are going to want us to take Voracek back in any deal, guaranteed. If Patrick is good to go I would be on board with Patrick + Voracek .

[gvitaly]

What about a deal that is centred around Monahan(1.375M retained) for Point. It gives the lightning a Center like Monahan for 3 more seasons at around $5M. Meanwhile the Flames get Point at around $8M for 2 more seasons, and another RFA year. The cap savings, and Monahan on even more of a steal of a contract would be a very good fit in Tampa.

What do you guys think? Which side needs to add in this scenario? Or is Point pretty much untouchable at this point?

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Johnny to Philly has a cap problem for the Flyers. The obvious solution is to acquire Voracek with a salary balance with Gaudreau, but the other option is to sell Johnny at 50% retained for a larger return.

Johnny (50%) for Morgan Frost, Bobby Brink, 2020 1st and Travis Sanheim.

I hate criticizing trade proposals in here, because we really don't know what is and isn't possible.
That being said, I don't think we're getting 4 pieces (especially those 4 pieces) for just Gaudreau.

I could see your proposal for Gaudreau, Killington, 3rd (maybe drop the 3rd if we're retaining 50%)

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Johnny to Philly has a cap problem for the Flyers. The obvious solution is to acquire Voracek with a salary balance with Gaudreau, but the other option is to sell Johnny at 50% retained for a larger return.

Johnny (50%) for Morgan Frost, Bobby Brink, 2020 1st and Travis Sanheim.

Honestly, their cap problems are their own problem. There is no reason for the Flames to have to take bad salary back in a Gaudreau trade or to retain. The Flames need all the cap space they can spare to ice a better team, especially when they are already wasting a bunch on Lucic and a couple buy out hits. If they want Gaudreau IMO, they can pay what he's worth, take his whole salary and clear salary some other way. Just my opinion, I want nothing to do with any of their 30+ year old players that have $7 million + AAV contracts for multiple years remaining.

Originally Posted by dammage79

Agree. But I also think you dont get a shot a him unless it is this circumstance. Don't really care what it takes to get Gaudreau to Philly as long as Patrick is coming with the package.

I want a good young potential #1C so bad I'm almost like yeah, just put Frost and Patrick together in a return package and call it a day. Gamble, gamble, gamble.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Assuming the Flames can sign Hall, keep coming back to Gaudreau, Jankowski, Kylington for Voracek, Frost, and Myers. Leaves the Flames able to swap Bennett for Anderson. Lineup looks like:

Hall*-Monahan*-Voracek
Tkachuk*-Frost**-Lindholm*
Dube*-Backlund*-Anderson*
Lucic-Ryan/Phillips**-Rieder/Gawdin**/Ruzicka**

Giordano-Andersson*
Hanafin*-Myers*
Forbot-Yelesin
Gustafsson/Valimaki**

* Expansion draft protected
** Protection not required

Solid lineup throughout. Three lines with potential to score and lots of options for the 4th line. Defense is solid and setup for the long term.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by New Era

Assuming the Flames can sign Hall, keep coming back to Gaudreau, Jankowski, Kylington for Voracek, Frost, and Myers. Leaves the Flames able to swap Bennett for Anderson. Lineup looks like:

Hall*-Monahan*-Voracek
Tkachuk*-Frost**-Lindholm*
Dube*-Backlund*-Anderson*
Lucic-Ryan/Phillips**-Rieder/Gawdin**/Ruzicka**

Giordano-Andersson*
Hanafin*-Myers*
Forbot-Yelesin
Gustafsson/Valimaki**

* Expansion draft protected
** Protection not required

Solid lineup throughout. Three lines with potential to score and lots of options for the 4th line. Defense is solid and setup for the long term.

You forgot Mangiapane, and the cap doesn't work with this line up.

You'd have to find a new home for Ryan I guess, which would be fine.

Hall (8.0) - Monahan - Voracek
Tkachuk - Frost - Lindholm
Mangi (2.0) - Backlund - Anderson (2.5)
Lucic - Ryan - Dube

Giordano - Andersson
Hanifin - Myers (2.5)
Valimaki - Yelesin

Rittich

That has the cap with $1.1 million left to add a back up and three scratched guys.

No Forbort, no Gus, etc

[MrMike]

The point in signing Hall and trading Gaudreau is to recoup prospects/picks and cap space to afford Hall himself. We won’t be taking back much salary in a Gaudreau trade unless someone gives us a center worth it.

[Vinny01]

I don’t like the Flyers as trade partners nearly as much as quite a few posters. I am too risk adverse when it comes to Patrick and I just think he will suffer from concussion related problems and never realize his potential. Voracek makes absolutely no sense as he is 31 and has 5 more years at $8.25M. He is nearly a Decade older than Tkachuk and makes more money than him. Frost, Myers, 1st is the type of return I expect if the Flames are trading Johnny at the deadline of his last season not when he has 2 years left on his deal.

It won’t happen anymore but Konecny is the guy we would need.

I see a Johnny deal being more about tomorrow than right now. Taylor Hall would be signed to change the right now and Johnny is used to ensure someone substantial is coming in a year or two when Tkachuk is needing a new deal.

[Jacks]

There is a real chance that Patrick will never be the same if he even plays again. It's been a year since his migraines sidelined him and all he has managed is no contact practice, you have to think if he was close they would have gave him a few AHL games for conditioning. I hope he gets his career back on track but the Flames can't afford to take that kind of gamble.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t like the Flyers as trade partners nearly as much as quite a few posters. I am too risk adverse when it comes to Patrick and I just think he will suffer from concussion related problems and never realize his potential.

Agreed. Patrick is a non-starter. The risk of him getting injured and not playing again is way too high. Hard pass as a piece for Gaudreau.

Voracek makes absolutely no sense as he is 31 and has 5 more years at $8.25M. He is nearly a Decade older than Tkachuk and makes more money than him.

Actually, Voracek makes all the sense in the world. He's an elite RW in this league, is durable, has size, is not showing signs of slowing down, and fills a massive positional need on this team. He is also a controlled contract for the next five years which covers the contracts of our core players. Who cares if he's 10 years older than Tkachuk or makes more money. This is about addressing needs of the hockey team, and this team is in dire need of a top end RW.

Frost, Myers, 1st is the type of return I expect if the Flames are trading Johnny at the deadline of his last season not when he has 2 years left on his deal.

Hahaha. That's funny. You are NOT getting that type of quality at the trade deadline, especially for a player that might only play 12-15 games. You only get that quality when you make a hockey trade. Your expectations are completely out of whack.

It won’t happen anymore but Konecny is the guy we would need.

That is the statement of the obvious. Philly has no reason to trade him.

I see a Johnny deal being more about tomorrow than right now. Taylor Hall would be signed to change the right now and Johnny is used to ensure someone substantial is coming in a year or two when Tkachuk is needing a new deal.

Tkachuk's deal is covered. Unless the Flames prospects continue to #### the bed and they don't have some cost controlled assets in play Tkachuk's contract add will be covered with the loss of players on the current roster.

Also disagree on the need for the deal. The deal is about right now and the future. The Flames can't make the same mistake they made when they signed Bouwmeester and held onto Phaneuf. They should have made the signing then immediately dealt away the player they knew would have to go in the future. Gaudreau is that player. If they bring in Hall, Gaudreau has to go before the next season opens. Gaudreau can return the immediate need and the future players the team desperately needs. This is a trade that checks all the boxes of the players the Flames should be looking for..

Top end RW? Check.
Young center with big potential? Check.
RH blueline depth? Check.

This is a deal that sets the Flames up for success IMO, and does so with as little risk as possible. The team is getting known quantities and players that can play and contribute right now. When making a trade you are going to have to eat similar salary coming back, so you better make sure that salary is providing a lift in areas of need. This is sheer win.

One last point, there is way too much risk with including draft picks. When you trade a star player to another team for draft picks you receive are diminishing returns. Odds are that the team we move Gaudreau to is going to get better and those future picks will drop several slots. So if you're trading for what you think is a 15-20 pick, the odds are that Gaudreau is going to make that a 20-25 pick. A player of his caliber is good enough to move a team enough points to drop five or picks in the draft. When that happens you are grabbing players that have longer development curves and are less likely to achieve their potential. This is why you trade for young guys that are already developed to the NHL level. You know what you're getting. The draft pick is magic beans.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by New Era

Agreed. Patrick is a non-starter. The risk of him getting injured and not playing again is way too high. Hard pass as a piece for Gaudreau.



Actually, Voracek makes all the sense in the world. He's an elite RW in this league, is durable, has size, is not showing signs of slowing down, and fills a massive positional need on this team. He is also a controlled contract for the next five years which covers the contracts of our core players. Who cares if he's 10 years older than Tkachuk or makes more money. This is about addressing needs of the hockey team, and this team is in dire need of a top end RW.



Hahaha. That's funny. You are NOT getting that type of quality at the trade deadline, especially for a player that might only play 12-15 games. You only get that quality when you make a hockey trade. Your expectations are completely out of whack.



That is the statement of the obvious. Philly has no reason to trade him.



Tkachuk's deal is covered. Unless the Flames prospects continue to #### the bed and they don't have some cost controlled assets in play Tkachuk's contract add will be covered with the loss of players on the current roster.

Also disagree on the need for the deal. The deal is about right now and the future. The Flames can't make the same mistake they made when they signed Bouwmeester and held onto Phaneuf. They should have made the signing then immediately dealt away the player they knew would have to go in the future. Gaudreau is that player. If they bring in Hall, Gaudreau has to go before the next season opens. Gaudreau can return the immediate need and the future players the team desperately needs. This is a trade that checks all the boxes of the players the Flames should be looking for..

Top end RW? Check.
Young center with big potential? Check.
RH blueline depth? Check.

This is a deal that sets the Flames up for success IMO, and does so with as little risk as possible. The team is getting known quantities and players that can play and contribute right now. When making a trade you are going to have to eat similar salary coming back, so you better make sure that salary is providing a lift in areas of need. This is sheer win.

One last point, there is way too much risk with including draft picks. When you trade a star player to another team for draft picks you receive are diminishing returns. Odds are that the team we move Gaudreau to is going to get better and those future picks will drop several slots. So if you're trading for what you think is a 15-20 pick, the odds are that Gaudreau is going to make that a 20-25 pick. A player of his caliber is good enough to move a team enough points to drop five or picks in the draft. When that happens you are grabbing players that have longer development curves and are less likely to achieve their potential. This is why you trade for young guys that are already developed to the NHL level. You know what you're getting. The draft pick is magic beans.

Acquiring voracek is such a laughably ridiculous proposition. His contract makes it futile to consider and no way could we afford hall while icing a proper defense afterwards. If we're trading johnny we can't take back a longer, bigger contract from a 30+ player on the decline

[Roof-Daddy]

I picture Voracek at 35 and 36 years old making over 8 million and its a frightening thought.

I will say that I think he'd be solid for at least the next couple seasons though, which is a crucial couple of years for this core with Gio and Backlund et al. He's a hell of a set up man so Monahan would still be lighting the lamp 30+ times a year probably, and if you add Hall to that mix it'd be a really high end first line.

Frost would most likely have a nice transition to the NHL as well if Tkachuk and Lindholm were his wingers.

And there is a lot to like about Myers. I think in another year or two he will be untouchable if he isn't already. A damn shame the Flames didn't sign him when they had the chance.

[Vinny01]

Neither Frost or Myers has the upside of a player like Johnny and Voracek is a contract that will look uglier every year it is on the books.

Teams sure have success with a bunch of 31-37 year olds eating up 32% of the cap and that is what this deal does to the Flames. Voracek, Gio, Backlund and Lucic. This team hasn’t won anything but they are somehow locked into an aging core. But they got some average you g pieces back. Maybe Frost can make it on the second line some day? Could be he is only a 3rd liner. Pretty average numbers for a guy drafted 3 years ago already. Myers could be a second pairing guy but he now needs to be protected over the Captain which makes sense but now your trade has cost this team Gaudreau and Giordano without bringing back a single elite piece. This somehow sets the team up long term?

A top 10 pick in this coming draft immediately becomes a better asset than Frost. Not tying up $8.25M in Voracek allows them to take a run at Taylor Hall. Your deal prices them out immediately by adding significant cap.

It is like there is zero thought of the cap or expansion draft?

[djsFlames]

No more of these "desperate to unload him so get the most you can while being fair to the other team" proposals.

We're not here to do other teams favors by not taking our equal pound of flesh the other way and taking on their crap contracts for an amazing one.

Makes zero sense with such leverage.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by jg13

Would much rather take my chances with Cozens and 8th OA than Patrick and 25th OA and its not even close

Well Philly would be much more likely to accept this offer than Buffalo would be. Plus they would be willing to offer a lot more.

Plus, the Flyers know that Johnny would be much more likely to re-resign with them. His chances of re-signing in Buffalo would be much lower. Philly just makes way more sense, and I think it's borderline silly to even brainstorm trade scenarios with Buffalo - especially when you're demanding Cozens and an 8th (in an extremely strong draft).

And no, the Flyers wouldn't trade Sean Couturier for Gaudreau. Not when he makes $4.3 a year and is among the best defensive centers in the league.
He's like Lindholm on steroids. Same goes for Konecny. He makes only $5.5 until 2025 and just led the Flyers in points.

Therefore, the players who make the most sense are Patrick, Sanheim, Farabee, Lindblom, Laughton, and Hagg.
They have a lot of good young assets. Yet are actually competitive and could use Gaudreau.