American Politics Thread: The Hunt for Blue November

[Fuzz]

You have to click on the first tweet to see the full size image, the phone is on the table.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't get it.

Her phone is on the table...it has that picture of that women's Juggs on it

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You have to click on the first tweet to see the full size image, the phone is on the table.

Oh, I didn't realize you had to click on it to see the whole photo.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Oh, I didn't realize you had to click on it to see the whole photo.

The Twitter auto-crop strikes again!

[Cali Panthers Fan]

And that's on Jeanine Pirro's phone? Eeeewwwww....I don't want to know why.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

And that's on Jeanine Pirro's phone? Eeeewwwww....I don't want to know why.

I don't know who any of those people are, and I think that's a good thing?

[dino7c]

To be fair it's on all of our phones too...scrolling twitter and Instagram I have had some pretty weird stuff on my phone too.

[blender]

Originally Posted by New Era

Just some thoughts on this as I think your view of America is built on the idealistic view American propaganda has built up over the years.

The Americans were isolationists until WWII. They entered both world wars late because of their isolationist beliefs. What made the US an economic power was them profiteering from the international war effort prior to joining. Post WWII was when the United States became the power they are and that was a result of the power vacuum in Europe. The cold war with the Soviets allowed the US to build military and economic alliances and spread their influence because so many nations were left so weak. This was ultimately because of good leadership from the United States, and because they were really the last nation standing, thanks to "the bomb.". But make no mistake, that position was established out of a series of cooperative efforts and agreements that would leave the US in a leadership position while the other nations rebuilt.

What we have seen is an attempt to expand the American Empire beyond the shores of the US, and her allies. This has has some success and plenty more failures. The US has attempted to make forays into the middle east and have failed spectacularly. They have attempted to extend their reach into Latin and South America and had at best mixed results. It is pretty easy to look at those regions and recognize they have pretty much rejected American hegemony. The US has very little influence in Africa, and Asia is also a mixed bag. To suggest the United States has has global control or absolute influence like some of the other empires is not accurate in any shape or form.

The best argument that can be made for global access is the influence of American culture through the arts and entertainment. Music and movies have been the United States' greatest export and helped shape minds and win hearts. These industries were powerful in spreading the American dream and belief that the United States was that shining light on a hill. But that was pre-9/11. Since 9/11 the United States has turned into the opposite of what those industries have long projected. The economic collapse greatly stunted the movie industry's reach and efficacy. As a result control of those industries fractured and message management disappeared. The messages coming from those industries have actually done more damage to the projection of a positive image of America than can be imagined. The anti-American media campaign actually started internally by the music and film industries.

This is the most interesting thing to watch about what is happening right now. America is dying from the inside. The "empire" they believed they could build is rotting to the core. They have been devoid of leadership since the end of the Vietnam era. Reagan was a hardass on the Soviets but added so much to the credit card at unmanageable interest rates that the country may never recover. They continued an incredible expansion of their perceived empire through military and economic means, but the successive economic collapses and continual spending on the credit card has actually weakened the United States.

The United States is a house of cards. Economically, culturally, and systemically. We are seeing all of the cards begin to buckle and all it will take is one and the whole mess falls in upon itself. The institutions that made America great are now a punch line in a Trump speech as years of corruption and divisive politics have weakened or destroyed the foundations of governance. The markets are for the top .1% and everyone else is a pawn/hostage to the system. The system is not sustainable. Culturally we are seeing what America is, and it is not pretty. This is a country that was built on racism and subjugation. Now that the demographics have shifted America will have to evolve or die. Culturally this may not be possible.

The American military is impressive, but it is so large and bloated that it is virtually impossible to support. If there was a global conflict the country would bankrupt itself in trying to keep the military machine running. Without the network of allies the United States military would fall quickly just because of the logistics of keeping that behemoth supplied.

This is the thing missing from the discussion. America is only as strong as it allies. Without alliances the effective reach and ability to maintain the military ceases. This is what has brought every previous empire to its knees and the United States is no different. With Trump in office the alliances that have made America great are being destroyed. Those alliances that allowed for expansion and influence are on the shakiest of ground and the failure of one card may cause the whole house to collapse.

Well thought out post with some salient points, but I must say, I feel that it may be your view that is coloured by American propaganda rather than mine. I've always felt that the goal has been to not advertise their imperialism and focus on "spreading democracy" or some such nonsense.

You mentioned Central and South America. If there was ever a case of a powerful nation having total hegemony over a region I don't know what would be a better example. Asia is tenuous, yes, but America locked up the Western hemisphere long ago with methods as brutal and total as can be.

I agree with your points about the current state of America. The future does not look bright; and make no mistake, I do not equate the strength of the American Empire with progress or see it as beneficial to the world in any way. I believe that much of the dirty work of empire building has been done under cover or disguised as something else. "Failures" such as in the middle east have still yielded results. Iraq as a sovereign state in control of it's own oil resources has been neutralized, for example. Iran is most certainly on the agenda next. Time will tell if the US can pull that one off.

Again, appreciate the discussion, as this is THE story of the world post WWII, and most discussion of it is either limited in detail or completely obfuscated by a purposeful effort at disinformation or jingoistic rhetoric. It bears further discussion.

[GirlySports]

I'm more disgusted by all the outrage in the comments about her wearing a mask.

[dino7c]

So Trump has demanded Bubba Wallace apologize and criticized Nascar for banning the Confederate flag...was this already discussed here?

Could be Trump's most racist act yet and that's saying something.

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by dino7c

So Trump has demanded Bubba Watson apologize and criticized Nascar for banning the Confederate flag...was this already discussed here?

Could be Trump's most racist act yet and that's saying something.

Bubba Wallace, Bubba Watson is a white golfer...

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Flacker

Bubba Wallace, Bubba Watson is a white golfer...

Lol that's even more racist!

F me edited my mistake...thanks

[Senator Clay Davis]

I guess any hopes the GOP had Trump might try and moderate the racism even a little have pretty much faded. Full steam ahead on the losing strategy!

https://twitter.com/user/status/1280203174008303616

[nik-]

can't lie, he got me with that last sentence.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I guess any hopes the GOP had Trump might try and moderate the racism even a little have pretty much faded. Full steam ahead on the losing strategy!

https://twitter.com/user/status/1280203174008303616

My god, this clown.

Every day I think he can't get more childish, and every day I proven wrong.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by nik-

can't lie, he got me with that last sentence.

Yeah, that's legitimately funny.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by blender

Well thought out post with some salient points, but I must say, I feel that it may be your view that is coloured by American propaganda rather than mine. I've always felt that the goal has been to not advertise their imperialism and focus on "spreading democracy" or some such nonsense.

Living in the states for over 20 years certainly exposes one to a lot of propaganda, but I do my very best to try and not be affected by it. That can be hard sometimes, but I try and keep history in mind as I approach my adopted land.

I agree with your framing of "spreading democracy." It's a bunch of BS meant to project American interests abroad and get countries to fall in line with what best benefits the United States. It isn't really about hegemony insomuch that it is protecting the interests of powerful American money making interests. Hegemony is just a coincidental outcome as a result of these activities. America really doesn't give a rip about spreading democracy or values, they are concerned about establishing footholds for the elite to make gobs of money on the backs of the poor. Projection of American power is about making money. Period. Full stop.

You mentioned Central and South America. If there was ever a case of a powerful nation having total hegemony over a region I don't know what would be a better example. Asia is tenuous, yes, but America locked up the Western hemisphere long ago with methods as brutal and total as can be.

I don't see the US having hegemony over any part of Latin America. If anything this region has rejected American hegemony and the region remains up for grabs. The US views Brazil as a massive threat. Same with Venezuela. Argentina is on the radar as a possible trouble spot as they develop their economy. With the exception of Belize and Panama, and possibly Costa Rica, the remaining countries in Latin America have no use for the US and her political leanings. The US is viewed as a means to an end, but one those countries would abandon in a heartbeat if pressed.

I agree with your points about the current state of America. The future does not look bright; and make no mistake, I do not equate the strength of the American Empire with progress or see it as beneficial to the world in any way. I believe that much of the dirty work of empire building has been done under cover or disguised as something else. "Failures" such as in the middle east have still yielded results. Iraq as a sovereign state in control of it's own oil resources has been neutralized, for example. Iran is most certainly on the agenda next. Time will tell if the US can pull that one off.

Iraq is a massive failure. That did not turn out the way Americans believed it would and it just destabilized the middle east in ways no one imagined. Trump has only made Bush's mess worse. Iraq is a political mess, where Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria (Russia), and Turkey control much of the region and the flow of resources. To suggest Iraq is a sovereign state is not acknowledging the dynamics of the region and how the ethnic groups do not operate under the confines of borders imposed by the west.

The US should not get involved with Iran. People who suggest that Iran would be a cake walk like Iraq don't understand the region. Iran would be more like Afghanistan. There terrain is much more like Afghanistan and warfare would be similar. They are also refusing to acknowledge that Russia would play a substantial role in supporting Iran and keeping them supplied. Iran would be a formidable foe and not an easy target to take on.

Again, appreciate the discussion, as this is THE story of the world post WWII, and most discussion of it is either limited in detail or completely obfuscated by a purposeful effort at disinformation or jingoistic rhetoric. It bears further discussion.

It does indeed. My suggestion is to read some William Blum, especially Killing Hope and Rogue State. I would also recommend some John Perkins, especially Confessions of an Economic Hitman and The Secret History of the American Empire. Should provide some more fodder for future discussion about the America's place in the world.

[burn_this_city]

Central Park Karen is being charged by the NY DA.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I guess any hopes the GOP had Trump might try and moderate the racism even a little have pretty much faded. Full steam ahead on the losing strategy!

https://twitter.com/user/status/1280203174008303616

So out of touch. He's driving off a cliff and we all get to watch.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Calling the Cleveland Indians a “fabled sports franchise” got me laughing too.