2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I don’t think spreading money into the bottom pairing is something this team should do anymore. Trust more youth, stop spending on depth players.

Forbort want a 1 year, $1M contract to earn a bigger payday? Sure, I’m into it.

I’m just questioning the train of thought that has seen us continually spending into positions that don’t drive the team forward. Start deploying cheaper, younger players that have similar impacts - you just have to trust them, coach them, and realize that playing mistake free hockey isn’t the goal - winning the game is, and mistakes happen.

Nailed it. And to top it off, the team spends draft capital to acquire even more defensive depth at the deadline.

Having marginally better 5,6 and 7 defenseman than your opponent rarely makes a difference between winning and losing unless you’re so even everywhere else.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

How many shifts did Phillips get again? Don't mistake Treliving's "reward call-ups" as getting a sniff. There's a difference between getting a call up to come skate in practice, eat some pop corn, and earn a nice little bonus pay, and getting an actual call up where you suit up and get some playing time.

In Mangiapane's first call up he played a stretch of ten games and looked completely invisible. At the time I was fairly convinced he would amount to nothing more than an AHL journeyman, yet here we are. I think having a little more patience with Philip's is justified, and I agree with Scorp—if he looks like he can make an impact, then he should play regardless of who ever else is also on the roster.

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[Strange Brew]

There’s no rush to make a decision on Phillips. Under contact for another year.

Although while saying that, I can’t imagine there will be AHL hockey next year. What are these players going to do?

[MrMike]

With no AHL hockey next season I can see teams playing many more of their prospects rather than have them lose a year of development. Which will also lead to many many veterans on PTOs

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Lmao. Hall is not signing here to play on the third line with plugs like Bennett.

Ya literally just copy and pasted the previous example there, big guy. Plus although not ideal I do think that gives us three dangerous lines.

But I literally had another example directly under it where Hall was on the top line so don't really know what to tell you if you can't even read an entire post before commenting.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Lmao. Hall is not signing here to play on the third line with plugs like Bennett.

Hall is signing here to win a Stanley cup.

Also, having seven top six forwards allows you to have options.

Did Phil Kessel have an issue playing on the "3rd line"? Or does his two Stanley Cups wipe that away?

5v5, it creates a third scoring line. He'd still get 1st PP unit time.

Also, coaches can shift stuff around to see what works. The entire argument that a player wouldn't sign here for this role or that role...if a player is chasing a Stanley Cup, and they believe in the team vision - then they'll sign. Hall has spoken openly about his desire to win a Cup. He wouldn't fixed on the 3rd line, it was just a way to show what real depth up front could look like.

Originally Posted by BigErnSalute_16

(because it didn't seem like we got anything for him anyways) then role with this.

I have Hanifin being traded for a 1st round pick and two 2nd round picks (same deal as Hamonic).

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Hall is signing here to win a Stanley cup.

Also, having seven top six forwards allows you to have options.

Did Phil Kessel have an issue playing on the "3rd line"? Or does his two Stanley Cups wipe that away?

5v5, it creates a third scoring line. He'd still get 1st PP unit time.

Also, coaches can shift stuff around to see what works.



I have Hanifin being traded for a 1st round pick and two 2nd round picks (same deal as Hamonic).

exactly, thank you!

I actually think that putting Hall with Dube and Bennett would be more beneficial than with Backlund and Tkachuk seeing as how they also have defensive responsibilities that Mangiapane helps with more than Hall would. I think although offensively Hall and Tkachuk is ideal Hall would drastically take away from what I feel is a more important aspect of what that line is.

Except I would not move Hanifin for that. I think it's counter productive to being competitive and he is worth much more unless the 1st is top 10, which I still wouldn't do but I see where you are coming from now at least

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think having a little more patience with Philip's is justified, and I agree with Scorp—if he looks like he can make an impact, then he should play regardless of who ever else is also on the roster.

Define impact? Define role? Based on what Matthew Phillips is he has to be in the top six player or nothing. He isn't going to be an energy guy. He isn't going to be a penalty killer or defensive specialist. His size and skill set greatly limit him. He is what Johnny Gaudreau is. That's not a bad thing except when you're trying to build a winning team. You can have only so many small players. Don't make the same mistake the Sabres did when they tried to play Roy, Ennis, and Gerbe in their lineup at the same time.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by BigErnSalute_16

exactly, thank you!

Except I would not move Hanifin for that. I think it's counter productive to being competitive and he is worth much more unless the 1st is top 10, which I still wouldn't do but I see where you are coming from now at least

For me, part of it is also gaining assets from Hanifin while not losing the better defender for nothing.

I think Brodie is better than Hanifin today, and likely will be for the next 2 to 3 season in my opinion. In no way do I dislike Hanifin though, I am tired of seeing this team manage reactively rather than proactively.

We ended up giving up the 12th overall (2018), 43rd overall (2018), and 57th overall (2019) for Travis Hamonic - I'd be looking for that type of return. So when we traded that 12th overall pick, we didn't know it was a 12th overall - but I'd do it for a 12th overall in this year's draft + 2nd round picks.

If things were to end today with no return to play, these are the teams in the range I'd look at:

New Jersey - 10th
Minnesota - 11th
Winnipeg - 12th
New York - 13th
Florida - 14th
Columbus - 15th

I'd argue most of those teams would have interest for those picks.

Originally Posted by New Era

Define impact? Define role? Based on what Matthew Phillips is he has to be in the top six player or nothing. He isn't going to be an energy guy. He isn't going to be a penalty killer or defensive specialist. His size and skill set greatly limit him. He is what Johnny Gaudreau is. That's not a bad thing except when you're trying to build a winning team. You can have only so many small players. Don't make the same mistake the Sabres did when they tried to play Roy, Ennis, and Gerbe in their lineup at the same time.

Your view of an NHL roster is that of a fan that has cheered for bad teams, or still thinks it's the 1990s. 3rd, 4th line players can't be plugs/grinders/energy guys anymore. Top teams get production from lines 1-4. Phillips is a guy who can give us that.

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by New Era

Define impact? Define role? Based on what Matthew Phillips is he has to be in the top six player or nothing. He isn't going to be an energy guy. He isn't going to be a penalty killer or defensive specialist. His size and skill set greatly limit him. He is what Johnny Gaudreau is. That's not a bad thing except when you're trying to build a winning team. You can have only so many small players. Don't make the same mistake the Sabres did when they tried to play Roy, Ennis, and Gerbe in their lineup at the same time.

Nowadays in the NHL, 3 scoring lines is very much a thing if you have the talent to do so.

If Phillips on the 3rd line gives you a great third scoring line, there's no problem with him being there. He'd still get solid time on the PP

[Toonage]

I hope Phillips becomes a full time contributing member of the Flames. But we should probably wait until he gets that chance before gifting him a spot.

I'm just full of cheer and hope on this fine Canada Day.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

For me, part of it is also gaining assets from Hanifin while not losing the better defender for nothing.

I think Brodie is better than Hanifin today, and likely will be for the next 2 to 3 season in my opinion. In no way do I dislike Hanifin though, I am tired of seeing this team manage reactively rather than proactively.

We ended up giving up the 12th overall (2018), 43rd overall (2018), and 57th overall (2019) for Travis Hamonic - I'd be looking for that type of return. So when we traded that 12th overall pick, we didn't know it was a 12th overall - but I'd do it for a 12th overall in this year's draft + 2nd round picks.

If things were to end today with no return to play, these are the teams in the range I'd look at:

New Jersey - 10th
Minnesota - 11th
Winnipeg - 12th
New York - 13th
Florida - 14th
Columbus - 15th

I'd argue most of those teams would have interest for those picks.



Your view of an NHL roster is that of a fan that has cheered for bad teams, or still thinks it's the 1990s. 3rd, 4th line players can't be plugs/grinders/energy guys anymore. Top teams get production from lines 1-4. Phillips is a guy who can give us that.

New Jersey has 7th OA, 11th OA and 13 OA, depending on the lottery result, and I could see them trading the 13th for a 23 year old 20+ minute per game US born Dman on a good contract. Their LHD D depth isn't exactly great and he could help now while also still being in his prime as the rebuild progresses for them.

Devils need to add though. Maybe Mirco Mueller?

Hanifin for 13th OA, & Mueller

Or maybe Hanifin, Bennett, 45th overall for 13th overall, Gusev and Mueller

Gusev is small, but he put up 0.67 points per game with 14:40 ice time as a rookie on a crappy team.

Sign Brodie, sign Hall

Hall - Monahan - Gaudreau
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Gusev
Mangiapane - Backlund - XXXX
Lucic - Ryan - YYYY

XXXX = Dube, Phillips, Gawdin, UFA
YYYY = Dube, Phillips, Gawdin, UFA
ZZZZ = Stone, Kylington, Mackey, UFA


Giordano - Brodie
Mueller - Andersson
Valimaki - ZZZZ

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Your view of an NHL roster is that of a fan that has cheered for bad teams, or still thinks it's the 1990s. 3rd, 4th line players can't be plugs/grinders/energy guys anymore. Top teams get production from lines 1-4. Phillips is a guy who can give us that.

Phillips hasn't played a shift in the NHL, but he's going to give us scoring that is not there.

A big part of the game is playing physical and wearing teams down. This is what differentiates the good from the bad. Teams used to hate playing Calgary because they would leave bruised and drained regardless of the outcome. The team we have now is too small, too soft, and too easy to play against. We need more size and we need more physicality.

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Nowadays in the NHL, 3 scoring lines is very much a thing if you have the talent to do so.

If you have the talent AND ability to play at the NHL level. Part of that ability is to handle the physical play of the game. Phillips has not proven he can do that. I don't think that we have the talent to surround him with on the third line to make him successful.

If Phillips on the 3rd line gives you a great third scoring line, there's no problem with him being there. He'd still get solid time on the PP

Define scoring or expected production. What is scoring from the third line? 1st line - 60+ points? 2nd line - 40+ points? 3rd line - ??? What is the expectation. Also, who is Phillips bumping from the lineup to get this playing time? Who is he especially bumping on the PP to get this "solid" time?

[TheScorpion]

I think expecting three guys with 30+ points on the third line is fair.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Hall is signing here to win a Stanley cup.

).

I am not certain that any players are coming to Calgary because they think this is the way to win a Stanley Cup.


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[TheScorpion]

I'm pretty sure Hall would come here for three reasons:

1. He grew up a Flames fan.
2. Calgary can offer him fair market value and more.
3. This is a pretty good, young team.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I think expecting three guys with 30+ points on the third line is fair.

So that means nine players scoring 30+ points? Looking back to the last full season played there are only a few teams who had nine forwards who scored 30+ points. Some others close, including the Flames. The secret appears to have no high priced superstars and guys that don't eat up a ton of minutes. It's possible, but that requires the majority of our roster having career best seasons. Certainly won't happen with the current roster and current level of play from the guys we have.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Nailed it. And to top it off, the team spends draft capital to acquire even more defensive depth at the deadline.

Having marginally better 5,6 and 7 defenseman than your opponent rarely makes a difference between winning and losing unless you’re so even everywhere else.

When 2 of your top 4 are injured it kinda forces things...both deadline deals the Flames made were solid IMO. I hope one or both stick around at the right price

[TheScorpion]

You don't think it'll happen with the current roster? This team has had multiple years where guys have met and exceeded expectations. Look at 2018-19 when all these guys scored around 30 points at the very least

Gaudreau
Monahan
Lindholm
Tkachuk
Backlund
Frolik
Jankowski
Ryan
Bennett

That's a balanced top-nine. Replace Frolik with Mangiapane, Jankowski with Dube and I think that is an attainable roster ideal.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

We ended up giving up the 12th overall (2018), 43rd overall (2018), and 57th overall (2019) for Travis Hamonic - I'd be looking for that type of return. So when we traded that 12th overall pick, we didn't know it was a 12th overall - but I'd do it for a 12th overall in this year's draft + 2nd round picks

That's more than what the Flames spent to get Dougie Hamilton. I don't think you will find another team willing to do a trade like that.