Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[schteve_d]

I'm done. For real. I apologize to the board. These silly, petty arguments are very irritating to read when you are not involved and I get it.

Roachman, if you wanna argue about it, PM me and we'll let the board carry on.

[jayswin]

I'm not defending police here and what they did was wrong, but to schteve's point this one had a very distinct "let's go after these cop vehicles until they have to do something" feel to it. Certainly not a peaceful protest vibe that many are describing it as. A smashed out window while everyone is surrounding it and screaming isn't worthy of deadly force, but it's almost certinaly not nothing either.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Honestly I think it’s completely fair game to look at this.

We all know there is a huge issue. It needs to be dealt with. Nobody is debating this. Only debating how to handle it.

At the same time, there are a lot of people out there who just come out to stir up ####. It only takes a handful. It can then grow out of control, or at the very least give ammo back to the side your protesting because some knuckleheads ruined your peaceful protest. Those incidents are worthy of being identified and called out.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

Roachman, if you wanna argue about it, PM me and we'll let the board carry on.

No, when the police can run over a bunch of teens, most of them at worst chanting and the police are still being defended, these are the exact conversations that need to take place.

You won't come out and say it, but it's clear you value the life of the officer over those otherwise peaceful protesters, and that's the root problem of why this is happening. You're happy to point out they weren't "peaceful protesters" because maybe someone broke a window, maybe, but who cares? That's all it takes to run over them? Someone else broke a window so they forfeit their life for being in the same vicinity? This is how Breonna Taylor died, she was an acquaintance of a drug dealer and now she's dead for his deeds.

The good police that some people still hold hope exist would see that video and be like "What the ####, this officer just escalated the situation and put a bunch of teens at risk of death due to ego. Thank God he didn't kill anyone and now remove him from the force before he does."

I'm not being hyperbolic. Don't drive into a crowd. Just don't. Automatically any police officer who purposely does like this should be removed. Anyone who defends driving into a crowd like that needs to realize they have the exact biases that people are protesting against. It's not just the police, it's society allowing them to get away with this. We're part of the problem when we need to bend over backwards to try and paint the majority of people who got ran over as deserving of it because they chanted a little song...

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

At the same time, there are a lot of people out there who just come out to stir up ####.

Well yeah, and most of them wear badges.

[activeStick]

Do all of these cruisers come equipped with speaker systems that they can speak into for those outside to hear? If so, I'd think that these situations could be prevented by making part of their procedures to warn people 2 or 3 times in these situations that they are going to move forward and to clear the path.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Well yeah, and most of them wear badges.

Yeah, I’m right there with ya.

But allowing agitators to have free reign hurts the cause. And they don’t even register a full percentage point in numbers.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Do all of these cruisers come equipped with speaker systems that they can speak into for those outside to hear? If so, I'd think that these situations could be prevented by making part of their procedures to warn people 2 or 3 times in these situations that they are going to move forward and to clear the path.

To me, that is what the siren is for. Move the first time. What happens when "protesters" get hit because they didn't move after 2-3 times? Change the policy to 3-5 times?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

No, when the police can run over a bunch of teens, most of them at worst chanting and the police are still being defended, these are the exact conversations that need to take place.

You won't come out and say it, but it's clear you value the life of the officer over those otherwise peaceful protesters, and that's the root problem of why this is happening. You're happy to point out they weren't "peaceful protesters" because maybe someone broke a window, maybe, but who cares? That's all it takes to run over them? Someone else broke a window so they forfeit their life for being in the same vicinity? This is how Breonna Taylor died, she was an acquaintance of a drug dealer and now she's dead for his deeds.

The good police that some people still hold hope exist would see that video and be like "What the ####, this officer just escalated the situation and put a bunch of teens at risk of death due to ego. Thank God he didn't kill anyone and now remove him from the force before he does."

I'm not being hyperbolic. Don't drive into a crowd. Just don't. Automatically any police officer who purposely does like this should be removed. Anyone who defends driving into a crowd like that needs to realize they have the exact biases that people are protesting against. It's not just the police, it's society allowing them to get away with this. We're part of the problem when we need to bend over backwards to try and paint the majority of people who got ran over as deserving of it because they chanted a little song...

I'm a bit confused here.

Are you saying the cops should just stop the car and wait? Till the protesters leave? You don't think they should feel threatened given the current climate? I'm not quite sure what you expect here.

Because it seems like you basically have created a scenario where no matter what the cops would do you would accuse them of stirring up sh&t.

Seriously, tell me what they should do. Tell me what you would do in that situation. Basic patrol, and people start banging on your car. Lets just ignore the fact that we all know that these protests can turn from banging on cars to breaking windows in a split second, because it seems like you can't handle talking about that.

Tell me what the cops should do.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Do all of these cruisers come equipped with speaker systems that they can speak into for those outside to hear? If so, I'd think that these situations could be prevented by making part of their procedures to warn people 2 or 3 times in these situations that they are going to move forward and to clear the path.

I don't see how that situation is any different from any other emergency response where the responders have the right of way.

If a cop is trying to get a scene of a crime and you block them off on the highway, what are they going to do?

If a firetruck is trying to get a fire, and you block them off, what will they do?

I honestly want to know what people think the cops should do.

Because it is being framed in such a way that no matter WHAT the cops do, they will always be wrong. It doesn't matter what the protesters do.

Especially when said posters accusers ALL COPS of always stirring sh&t up, when it is has been quite evident that we have protesters that are hijjacking what are otherwise peaceful protests, and are literally burning stuff down.

Really, I want to know what the cops should do.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm a bit confused here.

Are you saying the cops should just stop the car and wait? Till the protesters leave? You don't think they should feel threatened given the current climate? I'm not quite sure what you expect here.

Because it seems like you basically have created a scenario where no matter what the cops would do you would accuse them of stirring up sh&t.

Seriously, tell me what they should do. Tell me what you would do in that situation. Basic patrol, and people start banging on your car. Lets just ignore the fact that we all know that these protests can turn from banging on cars to breaking windows in a split second, because it seems like you can't handle talking about that.

Tell me what the cops should do.

I don't see the confusion. Not run into crowds of innocent people is my answer. Anything but.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Just for context.

If a police car is on its way to an emergency situation. Siren blaring and lights flashing, and approaches a red light. It still must yield, if it does not and causes an accident due to a car going through the green light, the officer could be liable.

Officers still must drive defensively. It is not carte Blanche with the lights on.

This isn't telling the whole story. What happens after they yield?

What happens if you purposely block off the path and refuse to move? What do you think the cops will do then?

[schteve_d]

And, I'm not talking to Roachman here as I swore I wouldn't engage him any more, but what is the endgame to holding up the cruiser in that video? What does it prove? What is the lesson learned? That people standing in the streets can stop the law if they want? I really, really don't get it. i want to stop, and smash, a police cruiser because I can? This gets the main message across how?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't see how that situation is any different from any other emergency response where the responders have the right of way.

If a cop is trying to get a scene of a crime and you block them off on the highway, what are they going to do?

Not run over innocent people.

Originally Posted by Azure

If a firetruck is trying to get a fire, and you block them off, what will they do?

Not run over innocent people.

But of course this is ignoring that the police weren't trying to do anything, there was no call, they weren't trying to get anywhere.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I don't see the confusion. Not run into crowds of innocent people is my answer. Anything but.

So given the circumstances you think the cops should just basically stop and do nothing. Is that what you are saying?

I want to know what you think they SHOULD do, not what they should NOT do.

Come on, it can't be that hard to answer the question. You seem to always have all the answers. Tell me what the cops should do in that situation.

For the sake of argument, lets assume that people have just been banging on the doors, and the rear windows have been broken.

How should the cops respond?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Not run over innocent people.


Not run over innocent people.

But of course this is ignoring that the police weren't trying to do anything, there was no call, they weren't trying to get anywhere.

You are just saying what they should NOT do.

I want to know what they should do, because they have to do something.

There was an incident, and they needed to response. Tell me how they should respond.

There have been multiple incidents where people are blocking off the police in what I assume are routine patrols. How should the cops respond?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Azure

So given the circumstances you think the cops should just basically stop and do nothing. Is that what you are saying?

I want to know what you think they SHOULD do, not what they should NOT do.

Come on, it can't be that hard to answer the question. You seem to always have all the answers. Tell me what the cops should do in that situation.

For the sake of argument, lets assume that people have just been banging on the doors, and the rear windows have been broken.

How should the cops respond?

Anything but run over innocent people.

If they want to make arrests, go for it. But driving over innocent protesters is terrorism. Nothing less.

If they shot at the person on the hood I would have felt better. At least it would have been calculated and against someone committing a crime, and they would be forced to be accountable, but running over a peaceful crowd of teen protesters during a planned march, no #### that. They used lethal force on dozens of innocent teens and it's no less a miracle that they all survived.

But the best thing and obvious thing they could have done was NOTHING. There's tons of cop cars already there behind them, sit tight, let them chant at you, let them yell mean words at you, and then move on with your day. These protesters had been marching for awhile, they weren't just going to stop there.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Anything but run over innocent people.

If they want to make arrests, go for it. But driving over innocent protesters is terrorism. Nothing less.

If they shot at the person on the hood I would have felt better. At least it would have been calculated and against someone committing a crime, and they would be forced to be accountable, but running over a peaceful crowd of teen protesters during a planned march, no #### that.

So you are okay if they get out of the vehicle and start shooting, but you have a problem if they stay within the relative safety of their car, and force themselves forward.

Given that the protests have turned violent very quickly, and what those cops are seeing is a protest that is quickly heading south, you think they should get out and start shooting. Good Lord.

Seriously, you have no frickin' idea what you're talking about. You just want to rag on the cops for stirring sh&t up, and you refuse to admit the impossible position they are in.

There is no good response to that scenario. Seriously. If they get out of the car they are more at risk. Why should they put their lives on the line like that?

I just don't get you. It really seems like you just want to rag on what the cops do all the time. And you intentionally avoid answering, and when you do answer, your response is 'get out and shoot.'

What a mess.

[jayswin]

@ oling roachenin - Why do you keep saying "peaceful"? I've been as anti-American police as anyone since this started, but why do you keep ignoring that they just had a window smashed out and had a crowd at their cruiser screaming and chanting?

I know you're a semantics guy in arguments so no I am NOT SAYING that what they did was the right course of action, I am ONLY asking why you keep referring to this as peaceful? It hurts the discussion and deepens the divide to exaggerate and bend the truth, imo.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

innocent protesters

peaceful crowd

innocent teens

You're blind, man.