Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GGG

That’s good, it’s good for you white person of privilege to experience something that you can’t do because of your skin colour. Think about how that arbitrary restriction makes you feel and if it really bothers you eliminate the racist things in the world and when that is done we will come back and deal with the inequality that you can’t say the N-word.

I'd wager $100 that the person in the editorial meeting who denounced Mesley is white.

She was quoting someone else's words in an editorial meeting for the purposes of a news story. There's a difference between being sensitive and creating an unprecedented and absolute taboo around a word. This is getting into realm of fundamentalist religious shibboleths here.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

What gets me about the Mesley incident is that none of her peers in the media stood up for, even though I'd wager the great majority of them saw nothing at all wrong with what she did and could easily have done the same thing.

The danger is not the zealots. The danger is all the people who acquiesce to zealotry out of cowardice.

Pretty much exactly this.

"Cancel culture" is only as powerful as the power it is given. Sometimes, giving that power away is a decision based on it being beneficial, your stock potentially goes up with your fans, customers, etc. Other times, your stock or freedom to do what you do successfully goes down, so it's smarter not to give any of that power away.

You look at The Chicks, who made a change before it became an issue, but they gave away a bit of power in what is a pretty prudent decision. You look at Chapelle, who hasn't changed despite attempts to "cancel" him, and he's been successful by keeping that power. Youtube stars are scattered on both ends of success and failure based not on what they did or who they offended, but based on how they reacted. And this situation, where it should have been very easy to keep that power with a reasonable explanation, it was given away in much greater quantities than were necessary, and actually made the situation somewhat worse.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

What gets me about the Mesley incident is that none of her peers in the media stood up for her, even though I'd wager the great majority of them saw nothing at all wrong with what she did and could easily have done the same thing.

The danger is not the zealots. The danger is all the people who acquiesce to zealotry out of cowardice.

Is that the most likely reason her peers didn’t stand up for her. Or is it more likely that they don’t agree with her. You are assuming their opinion to fit your narrative that this is an affront to journalistic freedom.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I'd wager $100 that the person in the editorial meeting who denounced Mesley is white.

She was quoting someone else's words in an editorial meeting for the purposes of a news story. There's a difference between being sensitive and creating an unprecedented and absolute taboo around a word. This is getting into realm of fundamentalist religious shibboleths here.

Yes. This. But I'm weary about posting in this thread from previous missteps lol.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Acey

This is all dumb. She shouldn't be cancelled over this. YouTubers now getting cancelled because they made a skit with a fake tan in 2009 is dumb. This is all so incredibly dumb and getting catastrophically away from the issues that actually matter.

You know what? I use to agree, but this is what cancel culture has created. And now those who advocated so much for what it has become are now the people who are being effected. PC Culture, primarily driven by left of center voters has become everything they wanted and has now doubled back to bite so many of their own. 2020 Everything and Everyone is Cancelled!!

[corporatejay]

The problem with trying to be woke, is you can never be woke enough. Eventually they're going to come for you, and you don't stand your ground they will demand more and more and more until you're cancelled.

The media is a ####ing joke. An absolute ####ing joke. Reporting on what "people on twitter are saying" is literally the laziest form of journalism, and yet our major news outlets (CTV, CBC), and those down south report on it regularly.

It's ####ing pathetic and we are all ####ed.


I don't use the N-word, but if white people can't say it even quoting a title or literature, then it must be sooooo bad that no one should ever say it.

Finally, to merge all our worlds together.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/24/us/or...rnd/index.html

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

You know what? I use to agree, but this is what cancel culture has created. And now those who advocated so much for what it has become are now the people who are being effected. PC Culture, primarily driven by left of center voters has become everything they wanted and has now doubled back to bite so many of their own. 2020 Everything and Everyone is Cancelled!!

No one left of centre is part of cancel culture. The far left is cancel culture and people who are left of centre are too afraid of the backlash that they go along like Cliff Said.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

You know what? I use to agree, but this is what cancel culture has created. And now those who advocated so much for what it has become are now the people who are being effected. PC Culture, primarily driven by left of center voters has become everything they wanted and has now doubled back to bite so many of their own. 2020 Everything and Everyone is Cancelled!!

People have always been fired for not living up to the standards of their employer and it wasn't always a leftist thing. In fact, it has been done by the right many times in recent history. Ordinary people used to be blacklisted for having left of centre views. Bill Maher had his first show cancelled after criticizing the U.S. military causing sponsors to back out. Meanwhile, scumbags like Brett Kavanaugh get life time appointments to elite positions.

Also, with maybe a few exceptions, most famous people who have been fired because of offensive things they say, seem to be doing quite well still. This isn't a new phenomena and isn't the epidemic people think it is.

[afc wimbledon]

I'm trying to think of a downside to living in a world where using racist or homophobic language is utterly unacceptable, where bigots know their vile views are unacceptable and my gay and coloured friends no longer have to worry about getting beaten up by some bunch of yahoos randomly, I'm having a hard time thinking of anything right now

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I'm trying to think of a downside to living in a world where using racist or homophobic language is utterly unacceptable, where bigots know their vile views are unacceptable and my gay and coloured friends no longer have to worry about getting beaten up by some bunch of yahoos randomly, I'm having a hard time thinking of anything right now

People think this is about overly sensitive "snowflakes" getting offended, but it is more about overly sensitive performers and rich people feeling entitled and getting upset when the entitlement gets taken away because large portions of the population get turned off. That is how capitalism works. If you want sponsors, you have to walk that line or find a platform that accepts your views.

I recall several times in the 80s and 90s when high profile people were fired for being racist, sexist, homophobic, etc... The difference now, is that there is more exposure and records due to the advances made in the information age. People aren't able to get away with it as easily.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I'm trying to think of a downside to living in a world where using racist or homophobic language is utterly unacceptable, where bigots know their vile views are unacceptable and my gay and coloured friends no longer have to worry about getting beaten up by some bunch of yahoos randomly, I'm having a hard time thinking of anything right now

Do you think Wendy Mesley is a racist or vile person? Do you not think as a journalist she shouldn't be allowed to quote literature?

Do you think Duane Forde's wife should be cancelled for using the N word in a piece about what people YELL AT HER ####ING CHILDREN?

If it's that vile and that horrific, then we probably should just all agree it shouldn't be used at all.

What's happening right now isn't tolerance or discourse, it's pure insanity.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

People have always been fired for not living up to the standards of their employer and it wasn't always a leftist thing. In fact, it has been done by the right many times in recent history. Ordinary people used to be blacklisted for having left of centre views. Bill Maher had his first show cancelled after criticizing the U.S. military causing sponsors to back out. Meanwhile, scumbags like Brett Kavanaugh get life time appointments to elite positions.

Also, with maybe a few exceptions, most famous people who have been fired because of offensive things they say, seem to be doing quite well still. This isn't a new phenomena and isn't the epidemic people think it is.

Bill Maher was legit cancelled nearly 20 years ago as sponsors pulled sponsorship of his show, an actual legit reason to cancel a program. Not like sat Live PD! which was a ratings Juggernaut for A and E, featured a black host. Canceled because it followed police around...

https://globalnews.ca/news/7054199/l...tter-protests/

This guy losing his job? Yes it is an epidemic.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...sture/2347584/

You think this guy is going to have an easy time getting another job? Yep, his resume is top notch, now plug his name into google.... DONE.

Removing Chase the Police Dog from Paw Patrol? Yes this is an epidemic

Have a read through this list going back the past month, some justifiable, some certainly not. This exlcudes Jimmy Fallon, Drew Brees and anyone else with an "All Lives Matter" take.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/everyo...les?ref=scroll

Things like this make me think of another word we are not suppose to be using. The R word, so much of this is simply ######ed.

[JohnnyB]

One of the most positive things that I think can come out of this moment in time is for more people to learn to understand racism beyond mere bigotry. Most people still seem to think of racism as just that, the acts or dispositions of bigoted people, and yet that's actually a really limiting viewpoint in advancing discussions that enable understanding of racism.

The change in thinking that results from seeing that racism is not merely about individual bigotry may actually be empowering for people who are not bigoted and yet feel threatened by the current conversations about racism because they feel there are personal implications of bigotry that strongly conflict with their personal values. More people can productively join the conversation when they understand that it's possible to have acted in a racist way without being bigoted, and that it is not necessarily a reflection of their personal values. It is easier to help with change when the defensive emotional barriers are lowered as a result of understanding the issue in a non-personal way.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I'm trying to think of a downside to living in a world where using racist or homophobic language is utterly unacceptable, where bigots know their vile views are unacceptable and my gay and coloured friends no longer have to worry about getting beaten up by some bunch of yahoos randomly, I'm having a hard time thinking of anything right now

Do you really think Wendy Mesley is a bigot?

One of the ironies of purity spirals is most of the people shamed and cancelled are progressives themselves. That’s inevitable when a movement can never go too far, and true believers gain prestige from denouncing anyone who is even marginally less pure.

Another irony is it’s not minority or marginalized groups themselves driving cancel culture, but a small number of dogmatic white zealots.

[WhiteTiger]

This thread is 'just' ONE month old today. What a heck of a month it's been.

[getbak]

Mesley's statement is confusing with regards to exactly what she said in this situation.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1276263794684186625

She mentions the incident last fall where she said the title of the book in a meeting. It doesn't appear she faced any discipline over that, she just had a colleague tell her it made people uncomfortable.

In the incident where she was disciplined, it sounds like she was quoting someone who was quoting someone else who used the actual n-word, but the person she was quoting directly only used the euphemism "the n-word". So, instead of quoting the person as having said "the n-word", she said the actual slur.


It seems like she's doing the classic spin doctor move, when you do something indefensible (casually say the n-word in a meeting), bring up another incident where you did something similar but easier to defend (saying the n-word in a meeting while quoting the title of a book) and then link those events in people's minds. Then, proceed to talk in detail about the easier to defend incident while being less-detailed about the harder to defend one. She uses 6 lines of text when referring to the incident that actually led to discipline and uses vague language that makes it hard to tell exactly what was said. She uses 14 lines of text and is very detailed when referring to the other incident.

I'm not sure if she intentionally did that to spin public opinion in her favour, but as someone who was on Marketplace for many years, it's a technique she should be very familiar with.

[PsYcNeT]

So basically my assessment was correct; first use was casual and dumb, second use was to be edgy and provocative.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

So basically my assessment was correct; first use was casual and dumb, second use was to be edgy and provocative.

All use of the word is dumb.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Bill Maher was legit cancelled nearly 20 years ago as sponsors pulled sponsorship of his show, an actual legit reason to cancel a program. Not like sat Live PD! which was a ratings Juggernaut for A and E, featured a black host. Canceled because it followed police around...

https://globalnews.ca/news/7054199/l...tter-protests/

This guy losing his job? Yes it is an epidemic.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...sture/2347584/

You think this guy is going to have an easy time getting another job? Yep, his resume is top notch, now plug his name into google.... DONE.

Removing Chase the Police Dog from Paw Patrol? Yes this is an epidemic

Have a read through this list going back the past month, some justifiable, some certainly not. This exlcudes Jimmy Fallon, Drew Brees and anyone else with an "All Lives Matter" take.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/everyo...les?ref=scroll

Things like this make me think of another word we are not suppose to be using. The R word, so much of this is simply ######ed.

While I agree with some of your points, I think you're just playing into the outrage over it.

How were Jimmy Fallon and Drew Brees cancelled? Brees said something and apologised and kept his job. I don't even know why Fallon is included, but whatever it was he seems to be doing fine.

Live PD! yeah, cancelled, but fairly common sense given the political climate surrounding what is a very real issue with police brutality.

This issue with the outrage machine is that people unwittingly play into the exact thing they're pretending to be against. Want to talk about why cancel culture is toxic? Great, Mesley is a prime example. Removing the cop dog from Paw Patrol is probably another one, because we're getting into the space of "way too reactionary." But including things that are going away for good reason (Live PD) and people that haven't even been "cancelled" (Fallon, Brees) just muddies the water and makes the point gutless.

That's no different than commenting about our issue with racism and mentioning Mesley in the same breath as the cops who said they wanted to "kill n******".

It's actually a perfect example of why cancel culture is ####ing bonkers. Instead of addressing things that are actually an issue, people need to make the issue bigger or go around demonizing fairly innocent people who really shouldn't be included in the first place. There's no limit. When people get going on something they're outraged about, they push and push and push until they're trying to swallow up things that don't belong in that path. It's toxic, but to say it's isolated to the left, or isolated to "people saying 'bad' things in public" is wrong, because the issue is way wider.

It's spread over society to the point that even people who think they're against it play in so willingly. You can go look at the Canadian politics thread and see a ####ty joke. Was it the left crying foul and calling it "racist" despite it not fitting the bill and them not being able to explain why? Nope, it certainly wasn't.

"Cancelling" is a tool that is more and more being used solely to bring people down a peg by people who otherwise want nothing more than that. That's the issue to me, and if we try to categorise it by just saying "one ideology" is at fault, I think we're missing the bigger issue.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Do you really think Wendy Mesley is a bigot?

One of the ironies of purity spirals is most of the people shamed and cancelled are progressives themselves. That’s inevitable when a movement can never go too far, and true believers gain prestige from denouncing anyone who is even marginally less pure.

Another irony is it’s not minority or marginalized groups themselves driving cancel culture, but a small number of dogmatic white zealots.

No of course not, but if we have decided as a society that you cant use that 'n' word because it is massively offensive (which it is) then bigotry isn't required, you just shouldn't be throwing the word around, I grew up in a society where my mum would happily tell me in a market to stop being such a silly c***, it just isnt as offensive in the UK as it is here, I dont use the C word because of that, my feelings about the word or the body part or women in general are irrelevant.