Duha leads a mock HOF voting committee....here are the results

[transplant99]

Just a great piece by Eric and a clear explanation of how hard it is to get in.

You need to subscribe to read it all, and its well worth it, but here are the nuts and bolts of it all.

The 2020 Athletic selection committee consisted of writers from every corner of our world: Adam Vingan, Arpon Basu, Corey Masisak, Daniel Nugent-Bowman, Hailey Salvian, Jeremy Rutherford, Joe Smith, Josh Cooper, Lisa Dillman, Mark Lazerus, Rob Rossi, Scott Burnside, Scott Cruickshank, Scott Wheeler, Sean McIndoe, Sean Shapiro, Sarah Goldstein and me.

As closely as possible, we followed the actual Hall of Fame committee format. Each selection committee member was permitted to nominate one player (in either the male or female category but not both) and one candidate in the referee/linesman or builder category. In theory, that could mean as many as 36 candidates could appear on the ballot.

Some years, the class of first-year eligible players is so strong that virtually no second-chance candidates have a shot. Other years, no single new candidate jumps off the page, thus making it easier to ponder the candidacies of players that have previously fallen through the cracks.

This year fell somewhere in between.




Once the deadline for nominations passed, it produced this candidate list:

Male player (13 candidates)
Daniel Alfredsson, Theo Fleury, Sergei Gonchar, Marian Hossa, Jarome Iginla, Steve Larmer, Vincent Lecavalier, Jere Lehtinen, Kevin Lowe, Alex Mogilny, Keith Tkachuk, Mike Vernon, Doug Wilson.

Female player (two candidates)
Jennifer Botterill, Natalie Darwitz.

Builder category (eight candidates)
Francois Allaire (nominated twice), Red Berenson, Cassie Campbell, Paul Henderson, Bill Hunter, Mitch Korn, Mike Marson, Viktor Tikhonov.

Male player, ballot No. 1

Adam Vingan
Iginla, Gonchar, Wilson

Arpon Basu
Iginla, Hossa, Mogilny, Gonchar

Corey Masisak
Hossa, Iginla, Mogilny, Wilson

Daniel Nugent-Bowman
Iginla, Lowe, Mogilny, Wilson

Eric Duhatschek
Iginla, Vernon, Wilson, Lowe

Hailey Salvian
Iginla, Mogilny, Hossa, Vernon

Jeremy Rutherford
Iginla, Mogilny, Hossa, Lehtinen

Joe Smith
Iginla, Hossa, Mogilny, Lecavalier

Josh Cooper
Mogilny, Hossa, Wilson, Iginla

Lisa Dillman
Iginla, Hossa, Wilson, Tkachuk

Mark Lazerus
Hossa, Iginla, Wilson, Mogilny

Rob Rossi
Hossa, Iginla, Gonchar, Wilson

Sarah Goldstein
Iginla

Scott Burnside
Iginla, Hossa, Lehtinen

Scott Cruickshank
Hossa, Iginla, Fleury, Vernon

Scott Wheeler
Iginla, Mogilny

Sean McIndoe
Iginla, Hossa, Wilson, Mogilny

Sean Shapiro
Vernon, Iginla, Mogilny

Results
Jarome Iginla
18 (Elected)

Alex Mogilny
12

Marian Hossa
12

Doug Wilson
9

Mike Vernon
4

Sergei Gonchar
3

Jere Lehtinen
2

Kevin Lowe
2

Keith Tkachuk
1

Theo Fleury
1

Vincent Lecavalier
1

Daniel Alfredsson
0

Steve Larmer
0

Three candidates – Marian Hossa, Alex Mogilny and Doug Wilson – all polled well right out the gate. The remaining eight did not. We’d established a rule going into the second ballot that any candidate with five or fewer votes would be dropped, because to get from five to 14 was difficult, bordering on impossible.

Results
Alex Mogilny
16 (Elected)

Marian Hossa
14 (Elected)

Doug Wilson
14 (Elected)

Lots more in there including the women and builder categories.

But what i took away from it the most, is the long haul Fleury has to get in. Vernon looks closer at this point.

https://theathletic.com/1885501/2020...w-it-happened/

[Lanny_McDonald]

The selection criteria published by Duhatschek makes it very difficult for Fleury going forward. While he is obviously high in playing ability, he is low in almost every measure. Doesn't look good for him.

[agulati]

Great exercise by Duha and the athletic. Surprising to see the lack of support Fleury has from the “Shadow” HHOF committee, for sure, just garnering a single vote.

[SportsJunky]

Wow, that is enlightening. I felt like Theo was on the cusp but according to this he’s barely in the conversation.

[CSharp]

Interesting Mogilny gets more love than Hossa, who has accomplished more. Mogilny and Fleury have similar stats, yet clearly the committee doesn't like Fleury. I'm not even sure why Mogilny is even considered, TBH.

[Harry Lime]

I kind of wish that some elements of the baseball type of selection were in hockey. There are years when only one or two people get in. I actually like Sarah Goldstein's selection of only Iginla. If she thought that he was the only worthy candidate, then why play the 'aw, shucks' game with everyone else?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I agree. While I think Cooperstown goes too far the other way - it's silly that Larry Walker was ever in doubt - I would prefer that was how the NHL HOF worked.

Obviously though they can't start that now after many years of being the Hall of Very Good. That's just what it is now. It's never a great sign when your argument in support of a player going in is essentially, "these other guys are in and they weren't all THAT great either". But it's a legitimate argument. If this guy is in, then that guy should be.

[hah]

Alex Mogilny over Paul Henderson is a travesty.


Duha next article should explain why Henderson is not in the HHOF as a player.
Duha votes Wilson over Fleury.

[habernac]

Because his stats suck

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by hah

Alex Mogilny over Paul Henderson is a travesty.


Duha next article should explain why Henderson is not in the HHOF as a player.
Duha votes Wilson over Fleury.

Henderson is rightfully not ever to be in the HHOF for the same reason that Mike Eruzione will also never be inducted. Henderson is remembered IN THIS COUNTRY because he scored an historically important goal in an exhibition-style tournament restricted to participation by only two nations. This is a different type of achievement that warrants a different type of recognition. He was inducted into the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame (1995), and also awarded the Order of Canada (2012)—perfectly sufficient accolades for his legacy here in Canada, but not remotely enough to qualify him for the HHOF.



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[Eric Vail]

How did Kevin Lowe get two votes?

[Mccree]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

How did Kevin Lowe get two votes?

He knows a few things about winning

[SuperMatt18]

NHL Hall of Fame is Weird.

Guy Carbonneau: Hockey Hall of Famer

3x Selke
1318 Gp
260 Goals
663 Points

Jere Lehtinen: A couple of votes
3x Selke
875 GP
243 Goals
514 Points

Rod Brind'Amour : Not Even A Mention
2 x Selke Winner
1484 GP
452 goals
1184 points

So somehow that one extra Selke makes Carbonneau a HHOF, Lehtinen gets some love, but Brind'Amour doesn't even get a sniff.

[Flashpoint]

I guess people unfamiliar with Fleury just focus on "sportsmanship" and "good character" totally ignoring the fact that he was a sexual abuse survivor who hadn't dealt with his abuse. You can't make any other argument given his numbers.

I was surprised to see Eric D. didn't vote for him. I wish the article had provided some reasoning for the votes.

To quote one of the comments below the article:

Fleury scored about ~50 fewer points than Hossa in about ~210 fewer NHL games. He won a Cup and was over a point per game average in both regular season and playoffs--the only person to do so not in the HHOF. He paved a path for smaller, skilled forwards in the NHL.

I fail to see a merit-based argument as to why Fleury only gets one vote while Hossa gets 12, and while there are many current inductees who were worse hockey players, and several current inductees who were much worse human beings.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Henderson is rightfully not ever to be in the HHOF for the same reason that Mike Eruzione will also never be inducted. Henderson is remembered IN THIS COUNTRY because he scored an historically important goal in an exhibition-style tournament restricted to participation by only two nations. This is a different type of achievement that warrants a different type of recognition. He was inducted into the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame (1995), and also awarded the Order of Canada (2012)—perfectly sufficient accolades for his legacy here in Canada, but not remotely enough to qualify him for the HHOF.



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Though i dont disagree with your premise nor conclusion, Paul Henderson scored more than that one goal.

Canada needed to win games 6, 7, and 8 to claim that series. He scored the winner in every one of them.

Also if you combine his WHA and NHL careers, he was well over 1,000 games and just short of 80 points. He was also the fastest guy of his generation and a multiple NHL all star.

No question he didnt have an HOF career but he was a very good player for a long time.

I think that gets lost whenever this conversation comes up, but for sure he shouldnt be among the best of the best.

[looooob]

the way I look at Henderson, is you will likely (always) see him in the HOF but in a different capacity


every time I have been there there has been at least part of an exhibit or a showcase about the 72 series with lots of info about Henderson- his exploits are captured in the Hall


yet I fine with him not being inducted as a player per se- because really his overall body of work doesn't take hm to that level


yet chances are if you go to the Hall you will see as much- or more- of him than Federko or Ciccarelli or Barber or... (you get the idea, many HOFers)


there is a comparison there somehow to Gelinas and the Flames, just can't quite word it properly

[looooob]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

NHL Hall of Fame is Weird.

Guy Carbonneau: Hockey Hall of Famer

3x Selke
1318 Gp
260 Goals
663 Points

Jere Lehtinen: A couple of votes
3x Selke
875 GP
243 Goals
514 Points

Rod Brind'Amour : Not Even A Mention
2 x Selke Winner
1484 GP
452 goals
1184 points

So somehow that one extra Selke makes Carbonneau a HHOF, Lehtinen gets some love, but Brind'Amour doesn't even get a sniff.

yeah leaving Lehtinen out (fine player by the way and I'd be ok with him in the Hall), Carbonneau over Brindamour is just a head scratcher (yes I get it CUPSZZ!!!1) but Brind'amour has one too, and I'm not convinced you can show me the intangibles or defensive aspects that make up the 500 point difference in offense

[Pliddy]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

I guess people unfamiliar with Fleury just focus on "sportsmanship" and "good character" totally ignoring the fact that he was a sexual abuse survivor who hadn't dealt with his abuse. You can't make any other argument given his numbers.

I was surprised to see Eric D. didn't vote for him. I wish the article had provided some reasoning for the votes.

To quote one of the comments below the article:

I'm also guessing his book "Playing with Fire" also didn't help much with voters outside the Calgary Market. I myself am a little on the fence about his legacy after reading that book

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

NHL Hall of Fame is Weird.

Guy Carbonneau: Hockey Hall of Famer

3x Selke
1318 Gp
260 Goals
663 Points

Jere Lehtinen: A couple of votes
3x Selke
875 GP
243 Goals
514 Points

Rod Brind'Amour : Not Even A Mention
2 x Selke Winner
1484 GP
452 goals
1184 points

So somehow that one extra Selke makes Carbonneau a HHOF, Lehtinen gets some love, but Brind'Amour doesn't even get a sniff.

I agree. Brind'Amour deserves serious consideration. Lehtinen might be forgotten sooner because he didn't have the longevity and had some injury problems. He was one of the best defensive forwards of our generation though when at his peak.

Let's face it, the Canadiens are probably the most recognized hockey club in the world. Playing most of your career with them adds to your legend. For the record though, I do think Carbonneau is deserving on his own merit.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I agree. Brind'Amour deserves serious consideration. Lehtinen might be forgotten sooner because he didn't have the longevity and had some injury problems. He was one of the best defensive forwards of our generation though when at his peak.

Let's face it, the Canadiens are probably the most recognized hockey club in the world. Playing most of your career with them adds to your legend. For the record though, I do think Carbonneau is deserving on his own merit.

the former Sabres kid in me looks at Carbonneau and says why not Craig Ramsay