2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[TheScorpion]

Vinny - That's a good point. In the case of the deal I proposed both Bemstrom and Foudy are exempt.

I think you'd protect Bjorkstrand and Dube and the final spot would come down to Backlund and Anderson, whoever is more valuable to the team at that point.

[TheScorpion]

New Era - the article I posted talks a lot about how Bjorkstrand was the Blue Jackets' most relied-upon offensive player this year and how he's developed a physical side to his game. But also.... you don't think Bjorkstrand, a natural RW remember, would get ice time on a Flames team that has been desperate to add natural RWs for years? This team played Buddy Robinson in the top-6 for a couple weeks.

Also maybe Bjorkstrand was 33rd in the NHL in pure RW scoring but you know he missed half the season with an ankle injury right?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The Gaudreau trade also needs to take into consideration expansion

Forwards
1.Tkachuk
2.Lindholm
3.Monahan
4.Hall*
5.Backlund
6.Mangipane
7.Dube/Bennett/god forbid we have to protect Looch

Defense
1. Hanifin
2. Andersson
3. Giordano/Valimaki/Kylington

Adding multiple depth pieces for Gaudreau could result in losing one of those pieces or another important piece to Seattle after one year.

You don't blink at losing the bolded. All of these players are not core to the team moving forward after next season. That would be one of the objectives of the Gaudreau trade, to nab a player or two who could possibly be core players moving forward, which is why you target a couple of young players who do not need protection. And let's be real on Giordano. This is a long-term hockey decision, and Gio is about to hit the age when he's a year-to-year contract player. Gio will be 38 by time Seattle takes the ice. If they want him, they can have him. Yes, we will miss his leadership, but he is about to hit the wall as a player. Leadership will be picked up internally.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The Gaudreau trade also needs to take into consideration expansion

Forwards
1.Tkachuk
2.Lindholm
3.Monahan
4.Hall*
5.Backlund
6.Mangipane
7.Dube/Bennett/god forbid we have to protect Looch

Defense
1. Hanifin
2. Andersson
3. Giordano/Valimaki/Kylington

Adding multiple depth pieces for Gaudreau could result in losing one of those pieces or another important piece to Seattle after one year.

Good teams generally lose a decent piece through expansion.

The only way around it is to have bad players.


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[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The Gaudreau trade also needs to take into consideration expansion

Forwards
1.Tkachuk
2.Lindholm
3.Monahan
4.Hall*
5.Backlund
6.Mangipane
7.Dube/Bennett/god forbid we have to protect Looch

Defense
1. Hanifin
2. Andersson
3. Giordano/Valimaki/Kylington

Adding multiple depth pieces for Gaudreau could result in losing one of those pieces or another important piece to Seattle after one year.

I would be all for trying to have Gaudreau and Hall playing together, but we have to really keep this in mind. If we don't do so hot this playoffs, it's time to retool the core and think ahead.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

New Era - the article I posted talks a lot about how Bjorkstrand was the Blue Jackets' most relied-upon offensive player this year and how he's developed a physical side to his game. But also.... you don't think Bjorkstrand, a natural RW remember, would get ice time on a Flames team that has been desperate to add natural RWs for years? This team played Buddy Robinson in the top-6 for a couple weeks.

Also maybe Bjorkstrand was 33rd in the NHL in pure RW scoring but you know he missed half the season with an ankle injury right?

Bjorkstrand is a good piece, however, I would want Bjorkstrand, Columbus' 2021 1st, and Korpisalo.

Maybe it's steep, maybe it isn't. But, that's what it would take for me.

[TheScorpion]

I think that's much worse than what I proposed. Korpisalo isn't really all that different from Rittich and Foudy is basically equal to that 1st. Then add Bemstrom and Anderson on top of that... both right-shot NHL calibre players with upside.

Bjorkstrand = Bjorkstrand
Anderson > Korpisalo
Foudy = 1st
Bemstrom >>>> nothing at all

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I think that's much worse than what I proposed. Korpisalo isn't really all that different from Rittich and Foudy is basically equal to that 1st. Then add Bemstrom and Anderson on top of that... both right-shot NHL calibre players with upside.

Bjorkstrand = Bjorkstrand
Anderson > Korpisalo
Foudy = 1st
Bemstrom >>>> nothing at all

Perhaps you're right, but why is Columbus going to want to mortgage the future when they already did that for one of the draft years? They would have nothing in the pipeline. They went all in last year. They lack a top 6 center, hoping Foudy is that. And I added in Korpisalo because he'd be an ideal 1B behind Rittich, and signed with term since we need cap space.

Maybe I am missing a piece, but I don't think Columbus is going to trade a top prospect and two of their middle 6 RW's as part of the package.

I would prefer to trade with New Jersey, Philly, NYR, or NYI. They have more appealing pieces.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by New Era

You don't blink at losing the bolded. All of these players are not core to the team moving forward after next season. That would be one of the objectives of the Gaudreau trade, to nab a player or two who could possibly be core players moving forward, which is why you target a couple of young players who do not need protection. And let's be real on Giordano. This is a long-term hockey decision, and Gio is about to hit the age when he's a year-to-year contract player. Gio will be 38 by time Seattle takes the ice. If they want him, they can have him. Yes, we will miss his leadership, but he is about to hit the wall as a player. Leadership will be picked up internally.

I would be surprised if they dont protect Dube.

He is one of those guys who you keep around as a utility type guy. A lot will depend on how he plays next season, if there is one, but at his age and his skill set, i think he is way more likely to be around a while than someone like Backlund who will be 32 at the time of the draft. And markedly cheaper.

[AC]

Dube is going to be a core piece for this team IMO.

[Harry Lime]

I actually like Columbus as a potential trade partner.

My list would be a little different. I understand your attachment to Bjorkstrand.
If the Jackets would also do Bermstrom

A gritty, speedy forward who with impressive distribution and goal-scoring prowess.

and Marchenko (he's committed to the KHL for three years)

Top-six forward with fantasy boom potential. Big tall winger with deceptive abilities who creates plays while displaying brilliance in the offensive zone. With scoring chances aplenty, if he makes it over to North America watch out.

You take what would be a top line RW on the Flames, a strong prospect, and hopefully a Kaprizov Minnesota situation for a couple of years down the line. I think that Columbus could actually b firmly in the running. Whether or not another team trumps them with a top 5 already drafted prospect or something, that's another story.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Good teams generally lose a decent piece through expansion.

The only way around it is to have bad players.


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This is true but at the same time, if you are trading Gaudreau you want to be sure you are getting pieces back that you can protect or won't have to protect.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think the quality gap between Hall and Gaudreau is debatable, but moreover, I think it is virtually certain that Hall's UFA contract that he signs this summer will be at a lower cap hit than that which Gaudreau signs in two years, just by virtue of inflation. So, in addition to the assets acquired in any Gaudreau trade—which would be considerable, and should absolutely not be ignored in this conversation—his replacement on the top line will also come in at a lower cost.

Johnny is younger, more productive and much less injury prone than Hall. Id rather pay Johnny 10M than Hall 9M.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This is patented nonsense. Gaudreau and Monahan have played together for so long and so consistently that it is extremely difficult to distinguish between what one does to assist the other. But without any doubt, BOTH PLAYERS BENEFIT TREMENDOUSLY FROM LINING UP WITH THE OTHER. Contrary to your suggestion, while there is scant evidence, there is some evidence to see how each player performs in the absence of the other, and Monahan has fared just fine—Gaudreau, less so. Furthermore, while Monahan's 2019 playoff performance was not good, he has been among the Flames's top playoff performing forwards in previous years, and without much of a contribution from Gaudreau.

Really? Because looking up the numbers and advanced stats I don't see Monahan producing more when away from Johnny. In fact Im seeing the total opposite. Maybe Im wrong and you can show me these stats, because with a quick look Monahans numbers look bad without Gaudreau on the ice with him. Also finding multiple articles stating those facts.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I actually think a good case could be made that Monahan would become a better player without Gaudreau to constantly defer to on his line. It is entirely possible that moving on from Gaudreau becomes the best thing to happen to Monahan's own career.

You're suggesting Monahan is suddenly going to become a driver of offense without Johnny? I just don't see it. Monahans biggest strength by far is his ability to get a heavy accurate shot off quickly and is afforded that often because of the playmaking and vision of Gaudreau, not to mention the chemistry they have due to the amount of time they have spent together on the ice. I think you have to agree not many guys in the league have the playmaking ability of Johnny.

I know you're a huge Monahan fan but if I'm serious about moving Gaudreau then why not consider making the bigger trade and include both of them? I just have the feeling that Monahan will suffer greatly without Johnny on his wing. Monahan is pretty much useless when he isn't scoring goals.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Johnny is younger, more productive and much less injury prone than Hall. Id rather pay Johnny 10M than Hall 9M.




Really? Because looking up the numbers and advanced stats I don't see Monahan producing more when away from Johnny. In fact Im seeing the total opposite. Maybe Im wrong and you can show me these stats, because with a quick look Monahans numbers look bad without Gaudreau on the ice with him. Also finding multiple articles stating those facts.



You're suggesting Monahan is suddenly going to become a driver of offense without Johnny? I just don't see it. Monahans biggest strength by far is his ability to get a heavy accurate shot off quickly and is afforded that often because of the playmaking and vision of Gaudreau, not to mention the chemistry they have due to the amount of time they have spent together on the ice. I think you have to agree not many guys in the league have the playmaking ability of Johnny.

I know you're a huge Monahan fan but if I'm serious about moving Gaudreau then why not consider making the bigger trade and include both of them? I just have the feeling that Monahan will suffer greatly without Johnny on his wing. Monahan is pretty much useless when he isn't scoring goals.

Monahan has already done this when Johnny was injured.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Johnny is younger, more productive and much less injury prone than Hall. Id rather pay Johnny 10M than Hall 9M.

Sure, that's fair but which is the best way to go?

1. Johnny @ $10 million, and that's it
2. Hall @ $9 million, plus whatever Johnny returns via trade
3. No Johnny because he walks, no Hall because you kept Johnny, and no trade return for Johnny

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Sure, that's fair but which is the best way to go?

1. Johnny @ $10 million, and that's it
2. Hall @ $9 million, plus whatever Johnny returns via trade
3. No Johnny because he walks, no Hall because you kept Johnny, and no trade return for Johnny

Yep, 2 is a no brainer IMO. In fact I think it’d be irresponsible for Tre to NOT take advantage of the situation (if Hall does in fact sign) and trade Johnny to upgrade the team.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Sure, that's fair but which is the best way to go?

1. Johnny @ $10 million, and that's it
2. Hall @ $9 million, plus whatever Johnny returns via trade
3. No Johnny because he walks, no Hall because you kept Johnny, and no trade return for Johnny

What about 4? Sign Hall, keep Gaudreau for an extra year, and make a run at a Cup? Then deal Gaudreau in his final year. If the Flames don't get offered fair value for Johnny this off season that might be a better plan.

[TheScorpion]

You gotta trade johnny before his NTC kicks in next summer. That's why you have to do it now IMO

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Yep, 2 is a no brainer IMO. In fact I think it’d be irresponsible for Tre to NOT take advantage of the situation (if Hall does in fact sign) and trade Johnny to upgrade the team.

Pretty much, and I might be alright with even waiting one more season and giving a top 6 with Johnny, Hall, Monahan, Tkachuk and Lindholm in it to see what they can do and then shopping JG if they fall short.

It'd be a risk, and JG's value might drop losing a year, but if he has another 90+ point season it may have the opposite effect too.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

What about 4? Sign Hall, keep Gaudreau for an extra year, and make a run at a Cup? Then deal Gaudreau in his final year. If the Flames don't get offered fair value for Johnny this off season that might be a better plan.

Yep, I just made a post about this too, which I would probably be OK with.