2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

so no deal

Self-explanatory yes.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Poulin and two firsts would be a good return, as he looks to be a prototypical power forward with top line potential. They would leave the Penguins with literally nothing in the system and three years of no firsts.

no it wouldn't...it would be 3 players unlikely to be high impact NHLers the exact deal we should avoid

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Trade at the draft before it kicks in July first. Still one year before right?

Still lessens the return IMO. Then the acquiring team only gets one year and no certainty he signs beyond one season.

2 years is a massive selling point. Gives an acquiring team options like dealing him at the deadline to recoup if things don't work out.

2 years of Johnny is the perfect storm to maximize a return.

Thats just my take.

[TheScorpion]

Last time the Flames dealt their stars for maybes they ultimately wound up with the following assets:

- Reto Berra, dealt for the Hunter Smith pick
- Mark Cundari
- the Emile Poirier pick
- Kenny Agostino
- Ben Hanowski
- the Morgan Klimchuk pick

Zero NHL players. ZERO. This is not the norm for most teams.

The Flames absolutely have to come out of a Johnny trade with at least one surefire NHL player. Ideally many.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Last time the Flames dealt their stars for maybes they ultimately wound up with the following assets:

- Reto Berra, dealt for the Hunter Smith pick
- Mark Cundari
- the Emile Poirier pick
- Kenny Agostino
- Ben Hanowski
- the Morgan Klimchuk pick

Zero NHL players. ZERO. This is not the norm for most teams.

The Flames absolutely have to come out of a Johnny trade with at least one surefire NHL player. Ideally many.

Hold on, we traded Reto Berra for a second round pick. We absolutely robbed Roy, our fault we did nothing with that second round pick.

And how many of those were Feaster trades??

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Hold on, we traded Reto Berra for a second round pick. We absolutely robbed Roy, our fault we did nothing with that second round pick.

And how many of those were Feaster trades??

The trades were FMV, Iggy could veto any trade and did so. IIRC, Feaster got the only 1st round pick moved at the deadline. Iggy was a rental too and far from his prime.

The big problem those picks did not pan out.

It does show that often moving a player with some sort of protection can have a big difference in the return.

Once Johnny reaches his last year, he can give a list of 5 teams he’ll accept a trade to. If he wants to maintain leverage, instead of picking teams like Philly and other eastern based teams, he may well pick 5 teams that would have little interest in a one year rental. That would essentially give him complete control in choosing his next destination, as he will anyway as a UFA.

I think the Flames will access where they are after the playoffs, and make moves accordingly. A lot will depend on whether the have a realistic chance of getting Hall and, of course, whether they want him (I expect they do).


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[ForeverFlameFan]

A team that you can take advantage of because of cap constraints is the St. Louis Blues. They're going to have a hard time re-signing Pietrangelo unless they shed some cap. Maybe we can take Allen with 50% retention and a great piece like Schenn in a hockey trade. This is assuming we have the space to make these trades.

[Harry Lime]

Oddly enough, they would both fit into the Calgary system. Knock against them is that they are considered soft.

Harrington: "You think back to the season now and it seems there were some signs of disconnect between Krueger and deposed GM Jason Botterill. Brandon Montour and Colin Miller, acquired by Botterill in a five-month span last year, didn't seem to be the the kind of defensemen who fit Krueger's system. It would not be a shock to see Adams move them this summer to get some help up front." .... "Under Adams, it's hard to imagine that happens again. And now we watch to see what kind of players Krueger really wants. Botterill's firing is a good sign for Rasmus Ristolainen, whom Krueger loves. Montour better keep a real estate agent's number handy. A lot of other guys could be in the same boat."

Lysowski: "It's probably safe to say Rasmus Ristolainen isn't going anywhere. Ralph Krueger views Ristolainen as a core player." ... "Miller could be gone. Montour too. Think of the players that didn’t fit into Krueger’s system. There could be significant changes."

[Roof-Daddy]

I was advocating for adding Colin Miller all year last year.

He was solid enough in Boston to get taken by Vegas in the expansion draft and utilized as a top 4 for them when they went to the finals, then he gets dealt for a 2nd rounder IIRC and then played as a 6-7 Dman. Made no sense.

I'd take Montour too, depending on the asking price and what his contract demands are. If he'd take an extension similar to what Rasmus has, then our top 2 RHD would be locked up at a pretty decent cost for the next half a decade +

[Harry Lime]

I find it interesting that Colin Miller (and Montour) have lost value over the regime change. I know that the talk is all about sending big core names to the Sabres to take advantage of the situation, but I'm warming to the idea that there is better value in other cities. Also a smaller likelihood that Buffalo would part with Cozens or their first.

Jankowski (change of scenery) + Gawdin (AHL All-star!) + 4th (Buffalo drafting juggernaut!)
for
Casey Middelstadt (Buffalo fires their entire AHL staff, so who knows?) + Miller (Sabres hate the salary/player)

I like Phillips to take the third line RW spot, and really like Philp as the darkhorse to take the 4th line RW spot. Except for 10 games pointless to start his AHL career, he is a point per game player his entire life. That fills up all roles : Middelstadt for Jankowski, Philp for Reider, Phillips for Rinaldo, Miller for Brodie and Kylington moving over for Hamonic.

Concentrate on pulling a couple of A+ prospects for Gaudreau, because that would leave no glaring holes in the roster except for a second line LW, which is not the most difficult spot to fill.

That is how I would take advantage of Buffalo.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Still lessens the return IMO. Then the acquiring team only gets one year and no certainty he signs beyond one season.

2 years is a massive selling point. Gives an acquiring team options like dealing him at the deadline to recoup if things don't work out.

2 years of Johnny is the perfect storm to maximize a return.

Thats just my take.

In my opinion he holds more value with one year left after a good year 2 with a mediocre year. Especially if shipped to one of the areas who knows he wants to re-sign.

And even if he loses value you still take that chance for one more year.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I find it interesting that Colin Miller (and Montour) have lost value over the regime change. I know that the talk is all about sending big core names to the Sabres to take advantage of the situation, but I'm warming to the idea that there is better value in other cities. Also a smaller likelihood that Buffalo would part with Cozens or their first.

Jankowski (change of scenery) + Gawdin (AHL All-star!) + 4th (Buffalo drafting juggernaut!)
for
Casey Middelstadt (Buffalo fires their entire AHL staff, so who knows?) + Miller (Sabres hate the salary/player)

I like Phillips to take the third line RW spot, and really like Philp as the darkhorse to take the 4th line RW spot. Except for 10 games pointless to start his AHL career, he is a point per game player his entire life. That fills up all roles : Middelstadt for Jankowski, Philp for Reider, Phillips for Rinaldo, Miller for Brodie and Kylington moving over for Hamonic.

Concentrate on pulling a couple of A+ prospects for Gaudreau, because that would leave no glaring holes in the roster except for a second line LW, which is not the most difficult spot to fill.

That is how I would take advantage of Buffalo.

I don't think Buffalo would accept this even if Calgary added the 2020 1st.

[chedder]

I don't think Johnny has a higher value as a trade than this summer. If he has a good playoff showing that would be the icing on the cake with respect to return. I'm also of the opinion that he doesn't re-sign here so get it done before the start of next season.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I don't think Buffalo would accept this even if Calgary added the 2020 1st.

It wouldn't be taking advantage if it were easy.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by chedder

I don't think Johnny has a higher value as a trade than this summer. If he has a good playoff showing that would be the icing on the cake with respect to return. I'm also of the opinion that he doesn't re-sign here so get it done before the start of next season.

Underwhelming season though. His value will skyrocket if the flames go a couple rounds and he puts up a PPG.

If they sign hall im like others in that I'd like to see what Hall and Johnny could do together but if that's not happening then I'd be all for fetching a potential future 1C by dealing him. We need to start to shift our strength from the wings to the middle.

[Pickle Juice]

If we get Hall in free agency there should be no reason to trade Johnny in my opinion. That should be our all in moment.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Pickle Juice

If we get Hall in free agency there should be no reason to trade Johnny in my opinion. That should be our all in moment.

Plus I doubt Hall would want to sign in Calgary if he knew they would trade away Johnny immediately.

The only problem is that there would be a lot less cap space for goaltending and defensemen. Plus Gaudreau would burn one of the last 2 years on his contract.

[Harry Lime]

Hall playing on a line with Monahan and Lindholm, backed up with MT-MB-AM and hopefully a better supporting cast than this year, would be the best group he has ever been party to.

Bennett - Amazing prospect 1C potential from JG trade - Dube
Lucic - Ryan - Phillips

is about all the thought that needs to go into this offseason.

[Roof-Daddy]

Gaudreau - Monahan - Tkachuk
Taylor Hall - Lindholm -
Mangiapane - Backlund -
Milan Lucic - D. Ryan -

It is intriguing to give that a go for a season.

Can we get a decent right shot RW in return for the likes of Bennett/Janko/Kylington?

Guys like Fast and Leivo probably wont cost a ton as UFAs and might compliment those lines OK enough.

Phillips, Philp, Petterson, Gawdin or Pelletier ready to take on roles like that?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Plus I doubt Hall would want to sign in Calgary if he knew they would trade away Johnny immediately.

I would like to see Johnny play RW with Hall and Monahan, Johnny was so dangerous playing RW at the 2014 WC, very few players can make plays from their off wing like Gaudreau.(ask Justin Abdelkader) I'm still mystified why a Flames coach hasn't tried him at RW.