2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[CsInMyBlood]

It funny how the majority of this board thinks there is no way Johnny would sign again with the Flames. Its a bunch of hearsay yet its treated like gospel.

Hall is an obvious downgrade on Gaudreau, older, more injury prone. Way rather throw that money at Johnny.

If you're trading Gaudreau you have to sell high on Monahan because IMO he will never eclipse the points he has been afforded with Johnny feeding him pucks. He does not drive offense in any way, isn't physical and is not a two way player by any stretch. Anyone that doesn't believe Monahans totals are propped up by Johnny either doesn't watch the games or aren't being honest about it.

Johnny is a special player in this league, has a very special skill set, his vision, shiftyness and edge work is at the top of the NHL. If you are able to sign him again then IMO he isn't a player to just move on from.

I understand losing him for nothing would be devastating to the franchise but I'm sure Treliving understands this and will have some serious talks with Gaudreau to see where he is leaning before making any decision.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

It funny how the majority of this board thinks there is no way Johnny would sign again with the Flames. Its a bunch of hearsay yet its treated like gospel.

I agree, we don't know for sure that he wants to move on but it came directly from two media members that have very close ties to the team. It wasn't some ####### blogger like David Staples feeding the masses whatever he was told to. Francis and Leslie said no way he re-signs in Calgary. There is no room for interpretation there in my opinion. I have a hard time believing they would make such a statement if they weren't certain it was the truth.

Now, could things change? Absolutely. Maybe John changes his mind and wants to stay but you can't very well bank on that can you? Treliving should (and I'm sure is) communicating with every team that he can about a JG trade.

[Jiri Hrdina]

^As has been stated numerous times it isn't just the fear over him re-signing.
3 outcomes
- He walks
- He re-signs for a contract that is risky and not great
- He is traded

Under the latter you get the assets in return for trading him and the cap space.

[AC]

Yes, of course Treliving is doing his due diligence regarding Gaudreau's feelings about potentially re-signing. But if Johnny even suggests he wants to test free agency then we have to trade him at some point.

Not turning a relatively cheap Gaudreau into a key asset or assets would be an abject failure for this franchise.

[Funkhouser]

I love the Johnny speculation...
To summarize, these seem to be the most talked about options. Any others?


To BUF for: Cozens and Miller/Montour OR with Bennett for the 1st, Reinhart and Miller/Montour

To Philly for: Farabee, Frost and Niskanen OR Frost/Farabee, 1st, 2nd and Vorachek (retained)

To NYI for: Beauvillier, Dobson and a 1st

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

...Hall is an obvious downgrade on Gaudreau, older, more injury prone. Way rather throw that money at Johnny.

I think the quality gap between Hall and Gaudreau is debatable, but moreover, I think it is virtually certain that Hall's UFA contract that he signs this summer will be at a lower cap hit than that which Gaudreau signs in two years, just by virtue of inflation. So, in addition to the assets acquired in any Gaudreau trade—which would be considerable, and should absolutely not be ignored in this conversation—his replacement on the top line will also come in at a lower cost.

If you're trading Gaudreau you have to sell high on Monahan because IMO he will never eclipse the points he has been afforded with Johnny feeding him pucks. He does not drive offense in any way, isn't physical and is not a two way player by any stretch. Anyone that doesn't believe Monahans totals are propped up by Johnny either doesn't watch the games or aren't being honest about it.

This is patented nonsense. Gaudreau and Monahan have played together for so long and so consistently that it is extremely difficult to distinguish between what one does to assist the other. But without any doubt, BOTH PLAYERS BENEFIT TREMENDOUSLY FROM LINING UP WITH THE OTHER. Contrary to your suggestion, while there is scant evidence, there is some evidence to see how each player performs in the absence of the other, and Monahan has fared just fine—Gaudreau, less so. Furthermore, while Monahan's 2019 playoff performance was not good, he has been among the Flames's top playoff performing forwards in previous years, and without much of a contribution from Gaudreau.

I actually think a good case could be made that Monahan would become a better player without Gaudreau to constantly defer to on his line. It is entirely possible that moving on from Gaudreau becomes the best thing to happen to Monahan's own career.

Johnny is a special player in this league, has a very special skill set, his vision, shiftyness and edge work is at the top of the NHL. If you are able to sign him again then IMO he isn't a player to just move on from.

I understand losing him for nothing would be devastating to the franchise but I'm sure Treliving understands this and will have some serious talks with Gaudreau to see where he is leaning before making any decision.

And if Treliving knows today that Gaudreau is determined to test UFA in two years, then what? The reason this is a topic of conversation now is because this is a decision that should be made now. There are still other opportunities to capitalize on Gaudreau's value if he is bound for free agency, but the best chance to get the most is now.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I love that you have to comment on every post I make on here like some teenage lovestruck girl following her favourite musician. Can I send you an autograph? Like if you are a day over 16 that is kind of scary.

I am a fan. Your ridiculous comments are pure comedy. 'Taylor Hall is dumb', 'Taylor Hall is a quitter', 'The Buffalo Sabres will certainly buy out Jeff Skinner'. Are some recent ones. All things you have no idea about, but you like to pretend you do. I don't have the time or inclination to dig it up, but you went apoplectic one night right around the Taylor Hall trade and after having several members disagree with a wide variety of your terrible arguments, you folded up and said something to the effect of 'I have a head ache so I'm going to bed'.

It seems most times you touch a keyboard, the belligerent ignorance can't help but shine through. you should be called out on the stuff you say and the way you say it. Do you know Taylor Hall? How many times have you met him? Would you call him dumb or a quitter to his face, or are you just some hack with a fake name on a forum who likes to pretend you know things you really have no idea about? As far as I can tell you never offer up thoughtful balanced perspectives, only myopic points of view that mean nothing to anyone but yourself. What point are you trying to make when you say things along the line of the Devils wouldn't trade Nico Hischer for Gaudreau, Hanafin, and Dube? Then you go on in other posts to say half of the forum members here would trade Gaudreau for 'dog crap'? I guess Nico Hischer is a mega elite talent waiting to crush the league. Ok fine, but again your belligerence is a funny way of going about making your point.

It's also funny you have made comments about Eric Francis when it seems like you are cut from the same cloth. At least he puts his name on it though. which is respectful.....

anyway. I'll leave it at that. Keep up the good stuff Dissentowner, you're a beaut.

[dissentowner]

My God you need a hobby besides sidetracking threads to follow me around like a lost puppy. Collect stamps or hockey cards or something. It is bizarre and creepy. Seriously. Do you do this on the Leafs board too? I think I will actually use the ignore feature. You are one of those petty posters who has to attack others for a differing opinion. It is pathetic and sad. I actually feel sorry for you that your life is that bad that you have to resort trolling message boards. Goodbye.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

^As has been stated numerous times it isn't just the fear over him re-signing.
3 outcomes
- He walks
- He re-signs for a contract that is risky and not great
- He is traded

Under the latter you get the assets in return for trading him and the cap space.

Gaudreau could sign a deal and live up to it...he is one of the most talented players in franchise history.

I think he is a 80-100 point player worth 8-10M

There is quite a bit of "grass is greener" thinking going on IMO

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Gaudreau could sign a deal and live up to it...he is one of the most talented players in franchise history.



I think he is a 80-100 point player worth 8-10M



There is quite a bit of "grass is greener" thinking going on IMO

My problem is in thinking that Gaudreau's next contract will come in in the $8–10 m range. If he is as good as many of us believe him to be, then he is getting a +$10 m deal by the time he is a UFA, and my greatest fear would be tying up that kind of money to a winger even as good as Gaudreau is for the kind of term it will take to lock him down. Furthermore, doing so at the same time that Monahan and Lindholm will be 27-years-old, Backlund will be 33, and Giordano wi be 38 does not strike me as a great idea. We are already at the point where the Flames should be focused on beginning a transition to a younger core group.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

^As has been stated numerous times it isn't just the fear over him re-signing.
3 outcomes
- He walks
- He re-signs for a contract that is risky and not great
- He is traded

Under the latter you get the assets in return for trading him and the cap space.

This describes every player due for a big $ long term contract.

Should the Flames have traded Gio or Backlund? It is looking less and less likely the team will be a real contender while they their contracts remain good value.

The only reason to trade Gaudreau is because the pieces you get back will help you win more than what you’re giving up IMO.

[Roof-Daddy]

For me it always come down to my opinion that the Flames aren't good enough down the middle thanks to the Bennett crash and burn.

Plus, if they do sign Hall, then they will have three #1 LW's.

Now, if you could trade one of those #1 LW's for a #1C you'd do it, but that's not going to happen because everyone knows how important #1 C's are.

The only way to really flip one of the LW's for a #1C is to trade for one before he actually becomes a #1C and take the risk that he won't become one, ala Bennett.

If they want to sign Hall, play one of the LWs on their off wing and move Lindholm to C and give it a go for one more season, it is what it is. But I think a retooling of the core is going to be necessary very soon, and the sooner you do it the better return you will likely get on the core pieces you move.

[Poe969]

The main reason to Trade Gaudreau is because of Hall. If there wasn't an elite LW becoming a UFA with a strong chance of signing in Calgary I don't think everyone would be in a rush to trade him. The fact that Chucky plays LW also plays into things. I don't think anyone here is saying the team is better off if they just get rid of him for nothing, it's that they can bring in a different LW who is really good and acquire assets and not be completely gutted in that position.

As for should they have traded Gio or Backlund...I think they should now or really soon.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Extremely doubtful.

The Islanders are not trading their #1 defensemen in a deal to bring in Johnny, unless of course they are having issues with contract negotiations.

Honesty I had no idea he was their #1 Dman I thought he was a 3-4? Never mind then?

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

I agree, we don't know for sure that he wants to move on but it came directly from two media members that have very close ties to the team. It wasn't some ####### blogger like David Staples feeding the masses whatever he was told to. Francis and Leslie said no way he re-signs in Calgary. There is no room for interpretation there in my opinion. I have a hard time believing they would make such a statement if they weren't certain it was the truth.

Now, could things change? Absolutely. Maybe John changes his mind and wants to stay but you can't very well bank on that can you? Treliving should (and I'm sure is) communicating with every team that he can about a JG trade.

Beyond just hearing from multiple strong media sources that Gaudreau wants out, there are a bevy of other sources who have said the following:
- Johnny has a fear of flying and would prefer less travel (impossible playing out of Calgary.)
- Johnny is very close with his family and hates living so far from "home"
- Johnny's father has had some health issues over the last couple of years.

Look, we may not like it, and there may still be opportunity for change... but if Johnny is actually a bit unhappy with his lifestyle due to playing for Calgary, then he isn't likely to perform as well as he would somewhere comfortable.

In a perfect world, Johnny's whole family would have moved to Calgary with him and his fear of flying would evaporate. This isnt a perfect world. We might have to come to terms with losing one of our best players. Wouldn't it be better, if we knew that's what he wanted, to do him a solid and deal him somewhere close while also recouping significant assets for this franchise?

If that is the case, wouldn't it then make sense to go hard after someone we really know WANTS to play in CALGARY specifically?

That is where 98% of us are coming from. We don't want to ship Johnny out but it just seems like it's inevitable given all available information.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

This describes every player due for a big $ long term contract.

Should the Flames have traded Gio or Backlund? It is looking less and less likely the team will be a real contender while they their contracts remain good value.

The only reason to trade Gaudreau is because the pieces you get back will help you win more than what you’re giving up IMO.

For me the evaluation is across several factors
- Likelihood he re-signs
- The return you can get from trading him, particularly with 2 years remaining
- The probability that a long-term contract will be a positive one
- The sense that he's a guy committed and that you can win with

For me there's a lot of risk in re-signing. I know I sit on the side of trading him. And that's in part because I don't see a guy who's committed on the ice or off the ice. And the latter is concerning, as not committing to fitness and nutrition adds additional risk to a long-term deal.

Contrast that to a guy like Gio who is committed on and off the ice - and therefore warrants a different decision.

So when I look at all the factors, including that...he's not a guy I sign long-term and therefore I trade him.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Poe969

The main reason to Trade Gaudreau is because of Hall. If there wasn't an elite LW becoming a UFA with a strong chance of signing in Calgary I don't think everyone would be in a rush to trade him. The fact that Chucky plays LW also plays into things. I don't think anyone here is saying the team is better off if they just get rid of him for nothing, it's that they can bring in a different LW who is really good and acquire assets and not be completely gutted in that position.

As for should they have traded Gio or Backlund...I think they should now or really soon.

I think Gio should be a Flame for life. As for Backlund doesn't he have a NTC? I am not sure he waives it.

[Roof-Daddy]

What would we have to add to Rittich to get Matt Murray?

Murray had an off year, might be able to get him for not too much and the Pens could have Big Save Dave for a year while they continue to transition Jarry into the #1 role.

Murray is an RFA too, so you might get him signed to a pretty decent deal as well coming off not his best year.

Buy some what low maybe and get a 26 year old proven starter that's already made 47 playoff starts, won 28 of them and has a Stanley Cup.

Goalies can be such voodoo though.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

For me the evaluation is across several factors
- Likelihood he re-signs
- The return you can get from trading him, particularly with 2 years remaining
- The probability that a long-term contract will be a positive one
- The sense that he's a guy committed and that you can win with

For me there's a lot of risk in re-signing. I know I sit on the side of trading him. And that's in part because I don't see a guy who's committed on the ice or off the ice. And the latter is concerning, as not committing to fitness and nutrition adds additional risk to a long-term deal.

Contrast that to a guy like Gio who is committed on and off the ice - and therefore warrants a different decision.

So when I look at all the factors, including that...he's not a guy I sign long-term and therefore I trade him.

Maybe we are narrative building and maybe people simply refuse to see the truth but even the most stubborn of people have to see all the signs point to Johnny leaving.

The only point now IMO is how the Flames let johnny leave. This offseason is the only time they have total control over the handling of his departure. Next season onward he has NTC powers that will hinder the process and then they lose him for nothing.

Right now is the only time they can get prime assets for him. And they have 30 teams vying for his services. Half that of you know he will just be happy he is in the eastern conference and only 5 or 6 if he only wants to go Home.

2 years of johnny anywhere is going to get you good pieces.

Now is the time.

Of course all this is for not if everything a lot of us have come to believe is wrong and he wants to be a flame for life. But I don't get that sense at all.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

What would we have to add to Rittich to get Matt Murray?

Murray had an off year, might be able to get him for not too much and the Pens could have Big Save Dave for a year while they continue to transition Jarry into the #1 role.

Murray is an RFA too, so you might get him signed to a pretty decent deal as well coming off not his best year.

Buy some what low maybe and get a 26 year old proven starter that's already made 47 playoff starts, won 28 of them and has a Stanley Cup.

Goalies can be such voodoo though.

I’d rather go after Lehner if Vegas has difficulty resigning him. Or go after Markstrom.