Flames upcoming free agent defensemen: Who stays, who goes?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Bingo

keep in mind this is going to be a very strange UFA season.

Shortened window, a fear of contraction, an iffy season to follow. We may see players jumping at contracts with their current clubs for less term and less dollars just to get some certainty.

Yeah, it's really difficult to predict this one.

I think a lot of teams are going to avoid signing players to big contracts due to the uncertainty. Some players, especially mid-tier UFAs, will likely opt for the security of having a contract over salary.

I personally wouldn't be throwing money at expensive free agents until we see where the chips land. There could also be a lot of sellers over the next year as well if owners start going into cash savings mode.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

I'm going to lose it if Hamonic is retained. He destroyed a year of Brodie's career and had a big part to play in Hanifin's regression. Get him off the team unless he's okay with the 6D spot and the money and term that should go along with it. Even in the 6th spot I'd rather they just try someone new.

I can't remember the last time the flames were rooked as badly as the Hamonic trade. The Regehr trade? I don't know but BT better not be wanting to extend him just because he overpaid badly initially, that would be beyond stupid, it would be a fireable offense as it would show BT has no plan. I don't like BT but I think, I hope, he knows better than to re-try things that have already failed spectacularly. I don't even trust Hamonic to shut down the JT Comphers of the world.

It’s hilarious how everyone crapped on Brodie for 2-3 seasons, then he started to look better for a season and now everyone loves him again.

But for Hamonic he is terrible this past shortened season after a really good season and everyone can’t get rid of him soon enough.

Comical.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

It’s hilarious how everyone crapped on Brodie for 2-3 seasons, then he started to look better for a season and now everyone loves him again.



But for Hamonic he is terrible this past shortened season after a really good season and everyone can’t get rid of him soon enough.



Comical.

Hamonic wasn't ever really good. Year two was merely okay and the other two years were bad imo. And I never wanted Brods gone (well I didn't want to lose him for nothing as a ufa), I can't speak for others. Gio-Brodie was too good to split up unless you are a red haired moron. Dragging around Hamonic and covering for his panicky play constantly would make anyone look bad.

[dammage79]

Personally, I'd let Brodie and Hammer go. Its not without thought though. Because youre losing 2 of 3 top 9 RD.

And you're not guaranteed to get 2 replacement rd in FA so there is a gamble.

Do the Flames have enough faith that 2 of Kylington, Valimaki or Yelesin can take those open spots?

I think they'll try to retain one of Gustaffson or Brodie in reality.

Hammer is going to cost more than he has provided in his body of.work in CGY.

I don't know, I can honestly see 2 new faces on the back end when the 20/21 season fires up.

But, I can also see Tree going with this next year too:

Gio-Brodie
Andersson-Hanifin
Valimaki- someone
Someone

Its a tough nut to crack given the fiscal changes covid has given the league moving forward. Who the hell knows what they can and cannot do. Not much room to improve the team.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Hamonic wasn't ever really good. Year two was merely okay and the other two years were bad imo. And I never wanted Brods gone, I can't speak for others. Gio-Brodie was too good to split up unless you are a red haired moron. Dragging around Hamonic and covering for his panicky play constantly would make anyone look bad.

Not you specifically just the fan base in general.

Before Brodie’s incident in practice he was really struggling and Flames faithful wanted to ship him out. Now he’s looked better since recovering and everyone wants to re-sign him to a multi-year extension.

Hamonic in year 1 wasn’t great, new organization and new surroundings and partners so it’s somewhat expected to not be seamless.

Last year however, he and Hanifin formed an excellent 2nd pairing and was a big reason we won the West.

I’m not saying re-signing either one is the right answer I’m merely pointing out how the fan bases views on the players, in general, have changed so drastically basically over the course of a year.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Not you specifically just the fan base in general.



Before Brodie’s incident in practice he was really struggling and Flames faithful wanted to ship him out. Now he’s looked better since recovering and everyone wants to re-sign him to a multi-year extension.



Hamonic in year 1 wasn’t great, new organization and new surroundings and partners so it’s somewhat expected to not be seamless.



Last year however, he and Hanifin formed an excellent 2nd pairing and was a big reason we won the West.



I’m not saying re-signing either one is the right answer I’m merely pointing out how the fan bases views on the players, in general, have changed so drastically basically over the course of a year.

We won the west because five players went bananas for four months in a ride that was more unsustainable then the magical 14/15 season.

Hanifin was just there for the ride picking up some assists as the fab five did their best 90s penguins imitation. Him and hamonic were a terrible pair that got worse as time went on. By the playoffs they looked like two fresh faced bewildered rookies playing their first exhibition game.

Once the magic wore off and the margins became thinner, our 2nd pair was exposed. Badly. They made me long for the halcyon days of Russell and Wideman they were so bad.

[CSharp]

As much as I like Gio, it's gonna be tough to justify keeping him and lose a couple of good right side d-men through free agency and try to replace them with less experience or high priced addins via FA. I'd love to see both Brodie and Hamonic get contract extensions. The Gio situation is a difficult one. With the expansion draft coming, you protect him, you'll lose someone. However, you un-protect Gio, you lose part of your offense. At the same time, he's getting closer to the retirement age. With his past injury history, who knows it this will be repeated more often as he gets closer to that retirement age in 3 or 4 years, let alone the next year or 2.

I still say that if Hanifin can be offered up in a package for an upgrade, that's the best scenario. We can't keep holding on potential that might not turn up. Letting 2 right side d-men walk is crazy. I like to see the left side D get bigger and tougher.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by CSharp

As much as I like Gio, it's gonna be tough to justify keeping him and lose a couple of good right side d-men through free agency and try to replace them with less experience or high priced addins via FA. I'd love to see both Brodie and Hamonic get contract extensions. The Gio situation is a difficult one. With the expansion draft coming, you protect him, you'll lose someone. However, you un-protect Gio, you lose part of your offense. At the same time, he's getting closer to the retirement age. With his past injury history, who knows it this will be repeated more often as he gets closer to that retirement age in 3 or 4 years, let alone the next year or 2.



I still say that if Hanifin can be offered up in a package for an upgrade, that's the best scenario. We can't keep holding on potential that might not turn up. Letting 2 right side d-men walk is crazy. I like to see the left side D get bigger and tougher.

Serious question. What has Hamonic done on the ice to warrant another chance? He's 29 and in decline. He's like a bigger, more physical Kris Russell and we all like to mock that contract.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

I bet Gio will be more useful at 43 than Hamonic is currently at 29. Keep the captain!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Bring back Hamonic, Gustafsson, and Forbort. I like the grit on the blueline and each of these guys adds a little bot of that. The Flames need to start restocking the cupboards. Pretty scary where they are.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by New Era

Bring back Hamonic, Gustafsson, and Forbort. I like the grit on the blueline and each of these guys adds a little bot of that. The Flames need to start restocking the cupboards. Pretty scary where they are.

See I want each gone. We'd be better off with cheap players like Yelesin and Kylington than overpaying average to below average guys with major warts. Hamonic provides nothing that a younger guy can't provide. I'd rather watch yelesin get walked constantly than watch the same crap from hamonic. At least a younger guy could improve.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Bingo

keep in mind this is going to be a very strange UFA season.

Shortened window, a fear of contraction, an iffy season to follow. We may see players jumping at contracts with their current clubs for less term and less dollars just to get some certainty.

Which is why I'm somewhat hopeful Brodie re-ups for a 4x3 or 4x4 contract.

God I hope the team isn't still as high as they were on a Hamonic extension or acquiring Barrie.

Chances are Gustafsson could give you more than Barrie offensively for much less.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

It’s hilarious how everyone crapped on Brodie for 2-3 seasons, then he started to look better for a season and now everyone loves him again.

But for Hamonic he is terrible this past shortened season after a really good season and everyone can’t get rid of him soon enough.

Comical.

A good regular season and one of our two worst players in the playoffs alongside his partner

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by New Era

Bring back Hamonic, Gustafsson, and Forbort. I like the grit on the blueline and each of these guys adds a little bot of that. The Flames need to start restocking the cupboards. Pretty scary where they are.

Hamonic has grit and character in spades, no question, but im not sure if he's even a very good d-man currently with how much wear and tear he's taken as well as his noticeably sluggish foot speed.

I think the team became defensively stronger after he went down.

Was anybody counting down the days to his return just prior to the season pause? Don't believe so.

I think Brodie is just a better / more skilled player and the one they should be trying to extend.

[Sylvanfan]

Back around the Trade Deadline I think Friedman or one of the other talking heads made the comment that the team with the greatest need, and best fit for T.J. Brodie was the Calgary Flames.

As I noted earlier though...there is no monetary sum that the Flames can offer Brodie that will make up for him playing like 60 games a year within a 2 hour flight of where he lives if he was to go play in the Eastern Conference and stay the hell out of Florida. I'm not sure how much value that carries with Brodie.

But with the odd situation that we are in, perhaps he would be willing to stick around 1-2 more years where he's at and see where things are. Something that may not have been an option prior to this.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

See I want each gone. We'd be better off with cheap players like Yelesin and Kylington than overpaying average to below average guys with major warts. Hamonic provides nothing that a younger guy can't provide. I'd rather watch yelesin get walked constantly than watch the same crap from hamonic. At least a younger guy could improve.

You need a blend of talent on the blueline. You can't just give positions up on the back end until a player proves he's ready to step in. Inexperienced bluelines almost always guarantee missed playoffs. There is a reason why veterans get snapped up at the trade deadline, experience matters. I would prefer to have five defensemen on the team with more than a couple seasons under their belts. If the kids step up and show they are capable, you have an attractive commodity you can move. You can never have too many defensemen, especially defensemen than have proven they can be effective at the NHL level. Kylington is the only defenseman we have that we can honestly say is ready to step in and play a regular shift. Valimaki is coming back from a rebuilt knee, so we have no idea where he stands. Yelesin played four games in the NHL last season and looked every bit of that. You don't win many games with a blueline that is comprised on players with no experience. You can sit there and say you would be happy watching Yelesin and company getting walked multiple times a game, but as the losses pile up I suspect you quickly change your tune and demand change.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by New Era

You need a blend of talent on the blueline. You can't just give positions up on the back end until a player proves he's ready to step in. Inexperienced bluelines almost always guarantee missed playoffs. There is a reason why veterans get snapped up at the trade deadline, experience matters. I would prefer to have five defensemen on the team with more than a couple seasons under their belts. If the kids step up and show they are capable, you have an attractive commodity you can move. You can never have too many defensemen, especially defensemen than have proven they can be effective at the NHL level. Kylington is the only defenseman we have that we can honestly say is ready to step in and play a regular shift. Valimaki is coming back from a rebuilt knee, so we have no idea where he stands. Yelesin played four games in the NHL last season and looked every bit of that. You don't win many games with a blueline that is comprised on players with no experience. You can sit there and say you would be happy watching Yelesin and company getting walked multiple times a game, but as the losses pile up I suspect you quickly change your tune and demand change.

Hamonic would get walked too. It's more frustrating because he's a vet and you pay him millions. I can put up with a lot from a rookie. I'm not saying go with 6 rookies, but there is no reason valimaki-yelesin/kylington can't be our bottom pair. They will improve, Forbort, Hamonic and Gus will not. Yelesin looked surprisingly good last year I think he will be a bottom pairing guy for us soon. You have to remember these young guys improve. Forbort etc are out of the NHL in 2-3 years and will provide diminishing returns.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Serious question. What has Hamonic done on the ice to warrant another chance? He's 29 and in decline. He's like a bigger, more physical Kris Russell and we all like to mock that contract.

Grit, toughness, and a bit of stability. I didn't like Hamonic at first when he first joined. But with him in the lineup for this past two years, I think he's not bad, especially when the Flames need a stay-at-home type of d-man on a right hand shot at that. Hamonic does have the ability to jump up for offense once in a while, which is also nice. He doesn't always sit back but he can read plays and go offensive as needed but he's defensively sound. What the Flames lack is grit and toughness. Hanifin sure doesn't add much even though his skating is really good.

[MrMike]

I really liked Forbort. I hope he replaces Stone as our 6-7. I found he was better than Hamonic and Stone combined.

If Brodie walks I would try to retain Gustafsson for a decent price as I think he really upgrades our offence.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

I bet Gio will be more useful at 43 than Hamonic is currently at 29. Keep the captain!

There's only a finite small number of years left. It's not like he's in his prime anymore. If there's no expansion draft in sight, yeah, I agree there's no question in anyone's mind that Gio must be kept. It'll be a tough decision when it's time to protect the roster. Plus, your comparison is between two different styles of players.