Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Azure

This is stupid.

Rioting, looting, destroying homes, businesses and people's livelihood is never justified no matter who you were willing to 'fight.'

Must to be really hard to admit that left-wing anarchists can cause a problem as well. But as long as they meet right-wing fascists in the street and are willing to fight, then I like them. Give your head a shake.

1. I didn't write either of those tweets, so I'm not sure why you're saying "I like them" or that I should give my head a shake, I just think the tweets are highly relevant to the conversation.

2. I'm fine with admitting left-wing anarchists might be stirring #### up. I've been around these types of militant-left group members and learned how toxic they can be, but you're not being as profound as you think they are repeating "it must be hard to admit left-wing anarchists cause trouble!" It's not the right-wing "gotcha!" you think it is. People aren't taking your bait because it's hard to admit, they're avoiding it because the bait is grade school. If you approach conversations like you're the only woke person who knows there can be violence on both the left and the right, you'll find you struggle to keep up as the conversation moves past you.

3. The first one applies to you, and the people who suddenly have it all figured out because Antifa is trending. Are you willing to admit there are also right-wing agent provocateurs stirring #### up? Or is that "hard" for you to "admit"? The point here, as above, is that the President purposely tried to change the narrative, and people (like yourself, it looks like, but tell me I'm wrong) are eating it up. Suddenly Antifa is the issue and it's a left-wing conspiracy not to talk about it, when really, it's because they seem to be a very minor part of the issue. Certainly not worth obsession.

[TheScorpion]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1267504373443198978

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

True. But from what I'm seeing on Twitter lately, are many many people (including random Flames fans i follow), saying stuff like "Take note of those staying silent during this", especially referencing people in the public eye I'm sure. If you are a celebrity or even visible member of the media (thus needing an active Twitter account), I can see where the pressure would come in to feel like you have to post something like that. People are watching, and taking note if you don't.

The problem is that we've turned into a society where as long as we 'tweet' about how woke we are, then everyone is happy.

I could care less what someone says on Twitter about this. The real change happens on the ground.

The fact that are judging people because they are in our eyes 'staying silent' contributes to the problem. We have no idea what those people are doing in their communities.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm not saying Antifa is this highly organized, undergroup group that is controlling everything like the circle gang loves to say. I'm just saying there is ample evidence that they are to a certain degree organizing themselves to go out and destroy and loot.

Not sure what is hard to understand.

The reason it is an issue is because the media isn't reporting the proper story. They have turned it into the police state versus the rioters, when that isn't what it is at all. Most of the protesting has been peaceful. There is a small group of people on both sides, cops & rioters that are making it all worse.

But when we make 2 min videos of 'police brutality in America', or 2 min videos of 'how America is burning', everyone seems to think this is the norm and it just makes the problem worse.

Most groups that are peacefully protesting have caught on to this and are working to help the cops apprehend the people rioting and destroying businesses. Even the gangs in Chicago are working with the police to help.

People really need to stop reading what they see on Fox News or CNN. The media has been contributing to this problem for many years with their style of headline reporting.

You failed to respond to the crucial part of my post.

Is there something more you're basing this claim of antifa-participation on than just pictures of guys in masks causing mayhem?

Why do you think they're antifa, other than they fit a certain stereotype and some people call them antifa?

I'm not saying it's impossible they're out there. If some antifa-group considers the police to be basically fascists, it's conceivable.

But I haven't seen anything at all suggesting antifa participation. Not even a single social media post made by a group claiming themselves to be antifa condemning police brutality. As fas as I can tell, antifas existence in the US is extremely marginal for the most part.

Now, I'm not that active in those circles anymore so maybe it's just not coming up in my feed (I'm sure there's SOMETHING out there), but given the atmosphere and the extent to which that label is thrown around, I would also imagine that if any antifa group had actually made a post suggesting a connection, the conservative right wing would go just nuts spreading it around.

So, any links or anything to back the claim up?

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Azure

This is stupid.

Rioting, looting, destroying homes, businesses and people's livelihood is never justified no matter who you were willing to 'fight.'

Must to be really hard to admit that left-wing anarchists can cause a problem as well. But as long as they meet right-wing fascists in the street and are willing to fight, then I like them. Give your head a shake.

Nobody should have any trouble admitting it. However, it's impossible to claim that most of them are Antifa, or that they are the catalyst for this destruction.

I think most of them are self-interested criminals disinterested in the politics of the situation, drunk on the chaos, disorder, and momentum, but that's just the way I define them and can't offer any proof outside of observational evidence. Although it is a generally accepted pattern of misconduct throughout modern riots so the theory is supported.

It's going to be much more difficult to prove and then definitely claim this mayhem is caused by organized Antifa militants bent on disrupting society. It may be why the majority of networks and news organizations are not giving credence to that narrative.

[AltaGuy]

"notably Antifa, that has used this opportunity to hijack the protests"

I'm just going to pick this quote from this thread as an example of the propaganda coming from the right about this situation.

Yes, there are looters, rioters, anarchists, criminals, and likely a few Antifa members among those protesting. But when you use a phrase like "hijacked" you are devaluing the vast majority of protesters and their cause. The protests haven't been hijacked. The vast majority of protesters continue to be focused on demonstrating dissatisfaction with police forces across the US.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by agulati

Will it be a musical? It better be a musical

It won’t be a musical but all of the dialogue will be recycled song lyrics and there will be a lot of random SNL references. And the entire movies takes place in a CJSW DJ booth.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

1. I didn't write either of those tweets, so I'm not sure why you're saying "I like them" or that I should give my head a shake, I just think the tweets are highly relevant to the conversation.

2. I'm fine with admitting left-wing anarchists might be stirring #### up. I've been around these types of militant-left group members and learned how toxic they can be, but you're not being as profound as you think they are repeating "it must be hard to admit left-wing anarchists cause trouble!" It's not the right-wing "gotcha!" you think it is. People aren't taking your bait because it's hard to admit, they're avoiding it because the bait is grade school. If you approach conversations like you're the only woke person who knows there can be violence on both the left and the right, you'll find you struggle to keep up as the conversation moves past you.

3. The first one applies to you, and the people who suddenly have it all figured out because Antifa is trending. Are you willing to admit there are also right-wing agent provocateurs stirring #### up? Or is that "hard" for you to "admit"? The point here, as above, is that the President purposely tried to change the narrative, and people (like yourself, it looks like, but tell me I'm wrong) are eating it up. Suddenly Antifa is the issue and it's a left-wing conspiracy not to talk about it, when really, it's because they seem to be a very minor part of the issue. Certainly not worth obsession.

I don't care what Trump says. Not sure why you are bringing that up.

Like I said, go and watch some of the actual videos being recorded on the streets where these protests are happening. There are extremists (both right wing & left wing, including Antifa) that are stirring #### up and are changing the narrative of the true issue here.

The narrative being 'America is burning', and 'all the police brutality in a 2 min video.' The context is wrong, and we need to get it right.

The problem is, people can't admit that. The media, people on here, etc. No way Antifa would do that. No way some neo-Nazi hate group would do that. It quickly becomes a 'us versus them', and if they support my side, I give them a pass.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

"notably Antifa, that has used this opportunity to hijack the protests"

I'm just going to pick this quote from this thread as an example of the propaganda coming from the right about this situation.

Yes, there are looters, rioters, anarchists, criminals, and likely a few Antifa members among those protesting. But when you use a phrase like "hijacked" you are devaluing the vast majority of protesters and their cause. The protests haven't been hijacked. The vast majority of protesters continue to be focused on demonstrating dissatisfaction with police forces across the US.

True.

My issue is with how the media is portraying the protests.

When you see major news organizations popping headlines like 'America is burning', when it in fact isn't true at all, one does wonder if things didn't get 'hijacked' again. Just like they do after most protests when the media starts 'reporting.'

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Azure

The problem is that we've turned into a society where as long as we 'tweet' about how woke we are, then everyone is happy.

I could care less what someone says on Twitter about this. The real change happens on the ground.

The fact that are judging people because they are in our eyes 'staying silent' contributes to the problem. We have no idea what those people are doing in their communities.

Yo, you done making stuff up, yet?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Azure

The problem is, people can't admit that. The media, people on here, etc. No way Antifa would do that. No way some neo-Nazi hate group would do that. It quickly becomes a 'us versus them', and if they support my side, I give them a pass.

We agree on the rest of your post, but again, this: who can't admit it? I'm seeing a lot of posters saying "yeah probably" and can't really recall anyone saying "Antifa? NEVER"

Maybe there are posters who have said that, I haven't read every single post. But let's say it's true. When the majority are happy to say Antifa is might be involved, why is your narrative "people can't admit that" and why are you constantly responding with "it must be hard for you to admit that!" to people who seem to have no trouble admitting it...

You're fighting a ghost. It's confusing.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't care what Trump says. Not sure why you are bringing that up.

Like I said, go and watch some of the actual videos being recorded on the streets where these protests are happening. There are extremists (both right wing & left wing, including Antifa) that are stirring #### up and are changing the narrative of the true issue here.

Everyone has watched those videos. I've watched a ton, so have many others here.

I'm not seeing antifa. Not sure I've even seen a single sign that I'd call antifa-style, let alone the word.

If you're seeing it, please show it to the rest of us. Don't just keep repeating that "it's obvious", because clearly it's not.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Itse

While Buzzfeed isn't what I'd call a go-to fact-checking organization, I do think this link is worth checking out, just as a reminder that in a situation like this it's really important to think critically about the information you're seeing, especially in the social media.

We’re Keeping A Running List Of Hoaxes And Misleading Posts About The Nationwide Police Brutality Protests

There's a lot of BS out there right now.

I was curious so I read the whole list. Thankfully nothing there that anyone with two brain cells wouldn’t be able to debunk themselves based on a modicum of common sense.

The only one that made me sad was the epic tear gas volley clip. That’s actually from Lebanon.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

You do realise that Antifa has only one aim and purpose and that is to oppose extreme right wing groups, that is literally what their name is Antifa(scist), while there may well be people who are sympathetic to Antifa at the protests there is no chance the loosely organised Antifa would have anything 'officially' to do with this, it has bugger all to do with their mandate, now if the Proud Boys started counter marching the protests then you would see Antifa in a heart beat.

Understand you are being played right now, it is the old song 'external agitators and anarchists' its a way to try and get you to ignore the protests and so not support the sweeping change that needs to happen, if they can persuade you this is the work of outsiders then the protest isn't real and nothing has to change.

Lmaoooooo, their "mandate". C'mon man, if you actually just take everyone's names at face value with no critical thought then I have some bad news for you about the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Islamic Republic of Iran, and the People's Republic of China. Actually, since you defend all of those countries I think I now finally understand your weird worldview.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Azure

It honestly doesn't matter to me what they stand for. My only point is that there are groups of people organizing themselves to go out and destroy businesses, homes and peoples livelihood, and they do not care about the BLM movement at all.

I just find it hilarious how hard it is to admit that this is happening when there is a massive amount of evidence from official sources (not Trump), from protesters on the ground, videos, etc.

The reason it is important is because most people are headline readers, the media would like you to believe that this is police brutality against protesters rioting and looting in the streets, but that is very much not what is happening.

Most of the protests have been peaceful. Most are emotional, most are angry. Most of the cops involved are doing a great job of handling the situations. But if we are going to make 2 min videos to show how 'America is burning', then I think we should at least be honest about who is making it burn. And like I said, it is not the BLM movement. Not the ACTUAL ones involved.

To me, watching the videos on Twitter that are taking on the ground are extremely moving. You won't get that in the media, which is why the media is part of the problem here.



https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/u...ts-antifa.html

There is no organization, no groups of people, I have been in a few riots and lack of organization is literally there defining feature, what is happening is any large crowd draws in a few morons who turn to breaking things quickly when they realise the cops can't stop them, that in turn draws in a few more who might not have thought about breaking stuff when they went on the march but are happy to get pulled in once it starts, it doesn't take many, they are drawn to the points of trouble by the noise and the shouting and become a crowd within the larger crowd.

What we will see as these protests go on is more trouble as every idiot kid who doesn't give a tinkers about George Floyd will be turning out to the protests in order to 'have some fun', the trouble ends up causing an expectation of trouble that itself becomes a self fulfilling prophesy but there is no organization at all, I knew there would be trouble in Vancouver in 2011 long before the game started, all of my foster kids (who are the kind of kids that like to break things) were talking about 'do you think there will be another riot?', that conversation was happening all over Vancouver and it made trouble inevitable, and yes if the Nucks make another final if the VPD aren't totally on top of things there will be another riot in Vancouver solely because people expect it.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I was curious so I read the whole list. Thankfully nothing there that anyone with two brain cells wouldn’t be able to debunk themselves based on a modicum of common sense.

The only one that made me sad was the epic tear gas volley clip. That’s actually from Lebanon.

I recognized that one immediately (how could you forget seeing that before), which then made me realize for the first time that a lot of these clips could have happened elsewhere, for different causes. Scary how easily this thing can be twisted.

[PeteMoss]

The whole - they are losing the narrative of the protests - is part of the PR playbook for people against the protesters in general. It comes up at every protest.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Nobody should have any trouble admitting it. However, it's impossible to claim that most of them are Antifa, or that they are the catalyst for this destruction.

I think most of them are self-interested criminals disinterested in the politics of the situation, drunk on the chaos, disorder, and momentum, but that's just the way I define them and can't offer any proof outside of observational evidence. Although it is a generally accepted pattern of misconduct throughout modern riots so the theory is supported.

It's going to be much more difficult to prove and then definitely claim this mayhem is caused by organized Antifa militants bent on disrupting society. It may be why the majority of networks and news organizations are not giving credence to that narrative.

I agree with everything you are saying, except for saying that some are just 'self interested criminals.'

Either way, I've said my piece. I hate it that every time I come on here to try and discuss something, I instantly get labeled, 'oh you are just falling for what Trump is saying', despite the fact that I had a very long history of NOT supporting Trump.

But that is part of the problem isn't it? If I say something that Trump would agree with, people instantly call me a Trump lover. If I say something Trump doesn't agree with, I'm suddenly the good guy that will 'fight' for what is right.

It has honestly come pathetic how people put themselves into sides where their outlook will change based on who is doing what, and not on whether or not something is right or wrong. And there are a good amount of those people on here as well.

Its funny how Bush Derangement Syndrome when to Obama Derangement Syndrome, and now it is Trump Derangement Syndrome. All the same people.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I was curious so I read the whole list. Thankfully nothing there that anyone with two brain cells wouldn’t be able to debunk themselves based on a modicum of common sense.

The only one that made me sad was the epic tear gas volley clip. That’s actually from Lebanon.

That volley was epic, but I bet it hurt like hell. I'd be surprised if he didn't break something in his foot doing that.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I was curious so I read the whole list. Thankfully nothing there that anyone with two brain cells wouldn’t be able to debunk themselves based on a modicum of common sense.

The only one that made me sad was the epic tear gas volley clip. That’s actually from Lebanon.

Yeah I think as long as you're not too eager to believe something you see, most of the stuff is not that credible.

The problems start when people want to see something. It's not that easy to call BS on something you think has to be true, or something that you want to be true.

If someone wants to believe in busloads of paid antifa protesters (LOL, talk about a contradiction in terms) rather than actual civil unrest , they will. It's more comforting in a way.

If someone wants to think the US is basically a fascist state, they will find stuff to support that.

(Not least because the Russian government trolling operation will make sure every possible conspiracy theory is going to be serviced, in hopes to turn up the heat some more. It's just what they do, day in, day out.)