Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[afc wimbledon]

Trump pardons people where he benefits from the pardon, as I don't think Trump benefits from pardoning the scumbag I doubt he would even consider it, if you go to right wing websites there isn't really any support for the cop, they have pivoted to 'what animals the rioters are' but they aint saying the cop was anything other than wrong.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I don't think the AG will try him for murder because he is white policeman and he murdered in cold blood a black man, but if we lived in some Twilight Zone alternate world where policemen in the states where held accountable for murdering black men then the fact they knew each other would actually be damning and would almost certainly lead to a 1st or 2nd degree murder charge, and at this stage I have no doubt what so ever that he fully intended to cause harm, my only question at this stage is did he intend to kill him, I suspect he did.

How is it damning? Knowing each other doesn't prove intent in any way at all, and it certainly doesn't prove premeditation, so a 1st degree charge would lose. He didn't immediately set out to kill him or he would have shot him, so a 2nd degree charge would lose.

[troutman]

Buildings damaged in Minneapolis, St. Paul after protests

https://www.startribune.com/these-mi...sts/569930671/


'Let my building burn': Minneapolis restaurant owner responds to protests and violence

https://www.startribune.com/let-my-b...nce/570865902/

“Thank you to everyone for checking in. Sadly Gandhi Mahal has caught fire and has been damaged. We won’t loose hope though, I am so greatful for our neighbors who did their best to stand guard and protect Gandhi Mahal, Youre efforts won’t go unrecognized. Don’t worry about us, we will rebuild and we will recover.”

As she wrote the post, Hafsa said she overheard her father on the phone, saying “let my building burn, Justice needs to be served, put those officers in jail.”

The post goes on: “Gandhi Mahal May have felt the flames last night, but our firey drive to help protect and stand with our community will never die! Peace be with everyone. #JusticeforGeorgeFloyd #BLM”

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Acey

I don't see how knowing him previously is proof that he intended to kill him and not cause bodily harm, nor do I imagine a jury will make that connection either... unless there are uncovered text messages from his phone saying "I'm going to kill the negro I work with at the club".

I mean, given what we already know, would anyone be surprised that those exist?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Acey

And he would be acquitted, and Minneapolis gets burned down again. Awesome.

He shouldn't be acquitted though, if two people know each other and one of them takes 9 minutes to choke the other one to death for no reason, even though the person dying is saying he cant breathe, he is fully restrained and hasn't resisted at all, well at that point its just straight up 1st degree murder, that the murderer knew the victim just adds to the case

[nik-]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

He shouldn't be acquitted though, if two people know each other and one of them takes 9 minutes to choke the other one to death for no reason, even though the person dying is saying he cant breathe, he is fully restrained and hasn't resisted at all, well at that point its just straight up 1st degree murder, that the murderer knew the victim just adds to the case

Again, it's not.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Acey

I don't see how knowing him previously is proof that he intended to kill him and not cause bodily harm, nor do I imagine a jury will make that connection either... unless there are uncovered text messages from his phone saying "I'm going to kill the negro I work with at the club".

I don't think that the charge should be first degree, but if the officer had prior contact with the victim, and acted partially on any emotional judgement that he had prior to the arrest and not on the facts in front of him at that moment, the charge looks like second degree, to me. He didn't like him, so he kills him.

Typically, second-degree murder is defined as murder that is not premeditated, or murder that is caused by the offender's reckless conduct that displays an obvious lack of concern for human life.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by nik-

How is it damning? Knowing each other doesn't prove intent in any way at all, and it certainly doesn't prove premeditation, so a 1st degree charge would lose. He didn't immediately set out to kill him or he would have shot him, so a 2nd degree charge would lose.

premeditation can be established in seconds, ironically lack of anger is the key, if you beat someone to death or shoot them in anger you still intended to kill them but your anger can be argued prevented premeditation, to strangle someone over 4 or 5 minutes when you are not enraged is text book 1st degree murder, do not make the mistake of thinking premeditation requires planning, it just requires a person doing something they know will lead to the death without a mitigating circumstance

[transplant99]

As outraged as people are, and rightfully so, the prosecutors are only going to charge him with what they believe they can prove in a court of law...cause that is still part of this process. 1st degree murder is a heavy burden for prosecutors and this incident simply doesnt meet that burden with the evidence known.

He did state that those charges can be increased with further evidence if/when it becomes available, but for right now what they have as evidence is what supports the charges laid.

And can a president pardon someone who hasnt yet been convicted? Seems doubtful.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by nik-

Again, it's not.

Pure semantics. Murder is murder, this man can never do enough time to pay his debt to society.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I don't think that the charge should be first degree, but if the officer had prior contact with the victim, and acted partially on any emotional judgement that he had prior to the arrest and not on the facts in front of him at that moment, the charge looks like second degree, to me. He didn't like him, so he kills him.

If he decided to kill him, even a few seconds before death that is 1st degree murder, if he killed him by mistake but a reasonable person could be expected to know the action would cause death, that is 2nd, killing someone by doing something where by you could not be expected to know they would die becomes 3rd degree or in Canada Manslaughter

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I don't think that the charge should be first degree, but if the officer had prior contact with the victim, and acted partially on any emotional judgement that he had prior to the arrest and not on the facts in front of him at that moment, the charge looks like second degree, to me. He didn't like him, so he kills him.

But then you have to prove that he intended to kill him. Even if we assume he did, actually proving that a cop, who has a gun, took the route of kneeling on his neck for minutes instead of just shooting him was an action that absolutely intended to cause death. That is a way sketchier argument to make in a courtroom. The requirements for 3rd degree are proven on the video.

Do you want to send a message or do you want a case to have a higher likelihood of success so he actually gets punished? Because this charge leads to the latter.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

premeditation can be established in seconds, ironically lack of anger is the key, if you beat someone to death or shoot them in anger you still intended to kill them but your anger can be argued prevented premeditation, to strangle someone over 4 or 5 minutes when you are not enraged is text book 1st degree murder, do not make the mistake of thinking premeditation requires planning, it just requires a person doing something they know will lead to the death without a mitigating circumstance

If that were the case, why does knowing the guy make a difference? MBates would be a better source, but I don’t think you have the case right for first degree. 2nd, maybe.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Pure semantics. Murder is murder, this man can never do enough time to pay his debt to society.

In the eyes of the law...no it isnt.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Pure semantics. Murder is murder, this man can never do enough time to pay his debt to society.

It's not pure semantics in a courtroom.

[afc wimbledon]

I would agree though that they likely wont charge him with 1st degree, but premeditation is literally the action of deciding to kill someone, under any circumstance other than self defence, as soon as you decide you are going to kill someone you are in the act of premeditation

[FlamesAddiction]

Can charges be upgraded if more information comes to light?

The fact they were not strangers to each other should warrant a longer investigation at the very least.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I would agree though that they likely wont charge him with 1st degree, but premeditation is literally the action of deciding to kill someone, under any circumstance other than self defence, as soon as you decide you are going to kill someone you are in the act of premeditation

Wrong again. Why would 2nd degree murder even exist if what you say is true?

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Can charges be upgraded if more information comes to light?

The fact they were not strangers to each other should warrant a longer investigation at the very least.

Yes.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Charges can be upgraded, obviously the previous working relationship has to be explored further. But we are still only a few days into this, they just had to get him in jail ASAP to avoid this turning into an extended riot.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Can charges be upgraded if more information comes to light?

The fact they were not strangers to each other should warrant a longer investigation at the very least.

He literally said that in his press release. They announced what they are comfortable charging him with right now according.to evidence. He said they can and will upgrade charges as they go over more evidence. They also said the other 3 officers aren't (im paraphrasing here) out of the woods yet, they just prioritized Chauvin. More charges will be coming as evidence gets sorted.