Moving to a Mac

[Devils'Advocate]

From reading this thread it would appear that the PC users are the ones thinking they are better than we Mac users. There seems like there is plenty of smugness to go around.

I posted this in the last Mac vs PC flamewar:
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...&postcount=140

I think the author stole my post before writing his article. I think he covered all the same points.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Looger

it's funny, the mactitude probably scares more potential users away than the price,

Isn't this the truth? I'm always perplexed by the rabid fervor exuded from Macfans, that Mac's rule, omigosh how can you not want to use this everything else is inferior, don't you want to be a part of this? And now it's the official Marketing position of Apple?

Reminds me of the Evangelical Christians I know.

Why can't we just all accept that it's a matter of horses for courses, and one OS is not better than the rest? I've recommended Mac to many people that matched their skill level and needs, and the priority they've placed on that. Use whatever works for you.

[MarchHare]

I own two Windows PCs at home (one running Vista, the other running Server 2003) and a Mac running OS 10.4 Tiger. I have to support both platforms (and Linux too, but that's a whole other thread) at work. So it's safe to say I'm intimately familiar with the pros and cons of both PCs and Macs.

For the average home user who wants to send email, browse websites, do online banking, write letters, organize photos, edit home movies, listen to music, etc., I think Macs are vastly superior in every way. The new iMacs are pretty good value for the money.

Anyone who wants to play PC games should probably stick to a Windows-based computer since that's the OS most games are programmed for (World of Warcraft is a very notable exception, though, as it runs natively on both platforms and installs form the same CDs). With the ability to dual-boot Windows XP on Apple hardware, though, that's becoming less of a concern. That being said, it's probably cheaper to put together a high-end gaming PC buying parts from Memory Express or whatever than it is to buy an expensive MacPro. PCs also have the advantage that it's easier to upgrade individual components. You can add more RAM to a Mac, but that's about the extent of hardware upgrades you can do. Good luck if you want to replace the CPU with something faster.

The support issue is very much a real one. I'm a very saavy computer user, so I make sure I've got the most up-to-date virus definations, spyware scanner, and firewall software installed on my Windows boxes. I don't need to worry about any of that stuff on my Mac (and yes, it's probably because Apple's marketshare is so much lower than Windows that the malware writers don't bother with the platform, not because OSX is more secure -- with XP SP2 and especially Vista, Microsoft has really improved the security of their OS). Also, Apple's Software Update utility is way better than Windows Update.

The biggest downside to Macs, though, and one that utterly prevents me from using it as my primary desktop box, is the inability to maximize windows. Far too often I have to use horizontal scrolling on Macs, which is so annoying. It's less of an issue if you've got a nice widescreen LCD display, but any Mac I've used doesn't have that luxury.

If I was looking to buy a new laptop today, I wouldn't look at anything other than a MacBook Pro. Dual-boot OS X and Windows XP on it using Bootcamp, and you've got the best of both worlds.

[fanforever1986]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I own two Windows PCs at home (one running Vista, the other running Server 2003) and a Mac running OS 10.4 Tiger. I have to support both platforms (and Linux too, but that's a whole other thread) at work. So it's safe to say I'm intimately familiar with the pros and cons of both PCs and Macs.

For the average home user who wants to send email, browse websites, do online banking, write letters, organize photos, edit home movies, listen to music, etc., I think Macs are vastly superior in every way. The new iMacs are pretty good value for the money.

Anyone who wants to play PC games should probably stick to a Windows-based computer since that's the OS most games are programmed for (World of Warcraft is a very notable exception, though, as it runs natively on both platforms and installs form the same CDs). With the ability to dual-boot Windows XP on Apple hardware, though, that's becoming less of a concern. That being said, it's probably cheaper to put together a high-end gaming PC buying parts from Memory Express or whatever than it is to buy an expensive MacPro. PCs also have the advantage that it's easier to upgrade individual components. You can add more RAM to a Mac, but that's about the extent of hardware upgrades you can do. Good luck if you want to replace the CPU with something faster.

The support issue is very much a real one. I'm a very saavy computer user, so I make sure I've got the most up-to-date virus definations, spyware scanner, and firewall software installed on my Windows boxes. I don't need to worry about any of that stuff on my Mac (and yes, it's probably because Apple's marketshare is so much lower than Windows that the malware writers don't bother with the platform, not because OSX is more secure -- with XP SP2 and especially Vista, Microsoft has really improved the security of their OS). Also, Apple's Software Update utility is way better than Windows Update.

The biggest downside to Macs, though, and one that utterly prevents me from using it as my primary desktop box, is the inability to maximize windows. Far too often I have to use horizontal scrolling on Macs, which is so annoying. It's less of an issue if you've got a nice widescreen LCD display, but any Mac I've used doesn't have that luxury.

If I was looking to buy a new laptop today, I wouldn't look at anything other than a MacBook Pro. Dual-boot OS X and Windows XP on it using Bootcamp, and you've got the best of both worlds.

That ^^^, is the post of posts. You sir should write a book.

One thing about horizontal scrolling, because I've been bothered by the same thing...I assumed that was the main reason Apple made all of their macs widescreen, so that more horizontal room was possible...just thinking outloud.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Actually, people who use Macs for photography are not tinkerers, but professionals. I work in the industry and deal with photographers/designers/illustrators on a daily basis, and I have not ONCE run into a one professional who uses a PC for these tasks. It's pretty rare in our world....definitely not something for "tinkerers". It would be like saying that gamers use PC's as a backup.

I'm not saying those are tinkering type jobs. I did just have one designer specifically ask for her mac to be replaced with a PC. She uses quark, correl and Creative suite. I know an architect that also doesn't like macs because he feals lazy with it.
I think the gap is closing between the two worlds for design, if there is even one at all anymore.

[Flaming Lips]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I own two Windows PCs at home (one running Vista, the other running Server 2003) and a Mac running OS 10.4 Tiger. I have to support both platforms (and Linux too, but that's a whole other thread) at work. So it's safe to say I'm intimately familiar with the pros and cons of both PCs and Macs.

For the average home user who wants to send email, browse websites, do online banking, write letters, organize photos, edit home movies, listen to music, etc., I think Macs are vastly superior in every way. The new iMacs are pretty good value for the money.

Anyone who wants to play PC games should probably stick to a Windows-based computer since that's the OS most games are programmed for (World of Warcraft is a very notable exception, though, as it runs natively on both platforms and installs form the same CDs). With the ability to dual-boot Windows XP on Apple hardware, though, that's becoming less of a concern. That being said, it's probably cheaper to put together a high-end gaming PC buying parts from Memory Express or whatever than it is to buy an expensive MacPro. PCs also have the advantage that it's easier to upgrade individual components. You can add more RAM to a Mac, but that's about the extent of hardware upgrades you can do. Good luck if you want to replace the CPU with something faster.

The support issue is very much a real one. I'm a very saavy computer user, so I make sure I've got the most up-to-date virus definations, spyware scanner, and firewall software installed on my Windows boxes. I don't need to worry about any of that stuff on my Mac (and yes, it's probably because Apple's marketshare is so much lower than Windows that the malware writers don't bother with the platform, not because OSX is more secure -- with XP SP2 and especially Vista, Microsoft has really improved the security of their OS). Also, Apple's Software Update utility is way better than Windows Update.

The biggest downside to Macs, though, and one that utterly prevents me from using it as my primary desktop box, is the inability to maximize windows. Far too often I have to use horizontal scrolling on Macs, which is so annoying. It's less of an issue if you've got a nice widescreen LCD display, but any Mac I've used doesn't have that luxury.

If I was looking to buy a new laptop today, I wouldn't look at anything other than a MacBook Pro. Dual-boot OS X and Windows XP on it using Bootcamp, and you've got the best of both worlds.

You are a much more savvy user than I, but I just bought MacBook Pro and its a pretty solid machine.

You mention that you can use Bootcamp (which as I understand it is free on the apple website) to convert the machine to a PC, but I think you have to re-boot the machine to go from PC to Mac and vice versa. I bought a software package called "Parallels", which is awesome. Basically, it creates a virtual PC right in your Mac operating system, so you can seamlessly switch from Mac to PC programs at will. It really is superb. So, I feel that I've got the best of both worlds. You can also dedicate as much memory as you want to the Mac or PC operating systems. I have been pleasantly surprised by the speed of the PC side too, but I do admit that I'm not much of a gamer.

No sideways scrolling issues for me, I got the 17 inch widescreen, and the resolution is fantastic.

FL

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I'm not really even anti-mac. I've considered them when I've bought pcs.

I stand by my statement that they are expensive though.

I wanted this computer for 2 purposes. 1) To edit my hdv videos, and author HD DVD. 2) To archive HD TV/Movies from my HD DVR.

for 1) I would have to spend $1300 on hardware, and I believe another $1300 on software to do this on a mac (iMovie can't author HD DVD).

Seeing as how I can do this fine on a $399 Compaq PC, the mac option is too expensive.

As for 2), Macs aren't even capable of doing this.

You have an HD DVD burner?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

The biggest downside to Macs, though, and one that utterly prevents me from using it as my primary desktop box, is the inability to maximize windows. Far too often I have to use horizontal scrolling on Macs, which is so annoying. It's less of an issue if you've got a nice widescreen LCD display, but any Mac I've used doesn't have that luxury.

If I was looking to buy a new laptop today, I wouldn't look at anything other than a MacBook Pro. Dual-boot OS X and Windows XP on it using Bootcamp, and you've got the best of both worlds.

You can't maximize a window with a Mac? It's been about 3 years since I've used a Mac but that surprises me as a really odd thing to have.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Barnes

You have an HD DVD burner?

You don't need an HD DVD burner to burn HD content onto DVDs. HD DVD only offers more capacity.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

You can't maximize a window with a Mac? It's been about 3 years since I've used a Mac but that surprises me as a really odd thing to have.

There's a maximize button on a Mac, but it doesn't work the same way it does on Windows. Instead of filling the whole screen, it resizes the window to be whatever OS X thinks is the best fit. A lot of times on non-widescreen displays this means you have to use horizontal scrolling to see all the content in the window. It's very annoying.

[Looger]

this was in a friend of mine's msn description, seems timely for this thread:

http://www.mipsscan.com/technology_business/index.html

Many people, myself included, talk about the virtues of getting a Mac over a Windows PC. You've heard it all before: better user interface, tighter integration of applications, great user experience, gorgeous looking hardware, the ability to run Windows, excellent multimedia applications. The list goes on and on. Over this past weekend, I was reflecting on people I know who switched within the last year from a PC to a Mac and I came to a realization. The value of using a Mac goes beyond the features and functions of the Mac. One user told me "Since I started using a Mac it has completely reinvigorated my computing experience." Apple does things differently and in turn, that cause people to think differently. That is the thrust of this post - that using a Mac actually gets you to think differently.

what i never liked aboot macs, back in the 'bad old dos days', is what i didn't like aboot windows when it became the standard.

people that are self-described as computer savvy quite often are only familiar with the latest OS, and have to be retrained every time a new skin comes in - this is creating a strange kind of snobbery among many IT pros that is simply not backed up by any real knowledge.

'i streamlined the operation of that machine' - translation: i clicked a couple buttons whose position is hidden in menus that is a closely guarded secret.

i just - man it's so frustrating talking to some of these people, knowing that when the next system upgrade comes down the pipe their slate is wiped clean.

yes, stramlined interfaces, multiple operations, all very good. but for the love of god, spare me the arrogance, i used to build machines and have to sort through all kinds of IRQ problems, real actual conflicts between background programs, mouse drivers that wouldn't load into high memory, video cards that wouldn't work in slot #2 but would work in slot #3, real stuff people - and for god's sake why does everything need a driver?

/rant over.

[cSpooge]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I'm not really even anti-mac. I've considered them when I've bought pcs.

I stand by my statement that they are expensive though.

I wanted this computer for 2 purposes. 1) To edit my hdv videos, and author HD DVD. 2) To archive HD TV/Movies from my HD DVR.

for 1) I would have to spend $1300 on hardware, and I believe another $1300 on software to do this on a mac (iMovie can't author HD DVD).

Seeing as how I can do this fine on a $399 Compaq PC, the mac option is too expensive.

As for 2), Macs aren't even capable of doing this.

Thats why I have iMovie HD running on my MacBook right now and it was FREE?!?!!?!?!?!

Sure you cannot do professional editing on it BUT you can get Final Cut Pro to do that for you.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

You can't maximize a window with a Mac? It's been about 3 years since I've used a Mac but that surprises me as a really odd thing to have.

Maximize is a Windows feature. Mac OS has zoom. It creates a window that fits based on what's displayed. Why waste the screen space with a maximized window?

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

You don't need an HD DVD burner to burn HD content onto DVDs. HD DVD only offers more capacity.

I know. As an interm solution, I guess it's okay if you have an HD DVD player. Like VCD was.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Barnes

I know. As an interm solution, I guess it's okay if you have an HD DVD player. Like VCD was.

I have an HD camcorder, and an HD DVD player. It is a nice feature to be able to burn hd dvd to dvd. Capacity isn't much of an issue anyway, as I rarely create anything over 20 minutes. It is the same quality as hd dvd, just shorter.

The HD movies I capture from hbo, etc, usually come in at around 8 gb. Theoretically you should be able to burn these to a regular dual layer dvd in full hd format, but I haven't actually tried that.

PCs right now are better for HDTV editing, authoring and capturing. Doing this stuff on a mac is either prohibitively expensive, or not even possible.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by cSpooge

Thats why I have iMovie HD running on my MacBook right now and it was FREE?!?!!?!?!?!

Sure you cannot do professional editing on it BUT you can get Final Cut Pro to do that for you.

iMovie HD can't author HD DVD, nor can it capture from a cable box.

[Claeren]

Originally Posted by kermitology

LOL at Claeren..

Mac's OS are a UNIX port so Vista's being as much like a *nix as it is a Mac OS.

The only reason I'm doing a refresh of my laptop is so that I can get ubuntu on it for dual boot. That and getting rid of a whole bunch of stuff from my previous employment.

The only problem I have with Mac's are the smug users. Tra-la-la I'm so much better than you are!

The point still stands though.

To the casual user i think Vista does look and feel more like an Apple. Regardless of whether it is a true reflection of the reality of the computing experience or even the hardware or software functionality for a CASUAL user - that impression is everything.

The smaller the PERCEIVED leap to other systems the easier it is to take that step... even if that perception is wrong.



Claeren.

[Barnes]

iMovie dosen't author anything. It's for editing video from a video camera. It's not a capture tool either. That's not what it was designed for. It's like saying Word isn't any good for surfing the web.

Capture is possible with a 6 pin Firewire cable direct to the cable box and some freeware and works well.

iDVD dosen't author HD-DVD or BR YET. Don't forget Apple has backed Blu-Ray but has positioned itself to jump on HD DVD if/when it wins the format war. They have supported h.264, aac and mpeg 4 - 10 for a long time now. MPEG 2 HD DVDs are a pretty weak stop-gap compaired to what is around the corner and you can bet Apple will skip this step completely.

You can burn Blu-Ray discs with Toast and HD DVD with DVD studio pro. The Apple DVD player will play HD DVDs right now. It is all possible on a Mac. Saying it isn't is untrue. The technology is there for the pros and it will trickle down to the consumer level soon. I think iLife '07 will turn some heads. After all, these standards are based on Apple's own quicktime format. They're not dumb. Apple's not about being first to market. Just ask Rio and Creative.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by kermitology

The only problem I have with Mac's are the smug users. Tra-la-la I'm so much better than you are!

Funnily enough, thats my biggest pet peeve as well. And the prices. They always seem to be higher to me.