Religion verses the Charter of Rights

[Calgaryborn]

Should churches lose their tax exempt status if they don't
comform to the Canadian Charter of rights?

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/feb/07020104.html

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Should churches lose their tax exempt status if they don't
comform to the Canadian Charter of rights?

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/feb/07020104.html

I don't see why churches are tax exempt anyways. So yes.

[vanisleflamesfan]

Ummm... short and simple 'legal' answer: YES.

The legislation that gives 'churches' tax exempt status as charities, requires them to perform tasks that are in direct, blatant, opposition to the Charter. I'm not sure why the legislation was drafted this way... but ultimately... we have a constitutionaly protected SEPARATION of church and state!! Said more simply... THE CHARTER ALWAYS WINS!!!

Sorry to the churches, but them's the rules. If you don't like it... well... you should have got a better lawyer at the start.

Frankly, I don't know how churches were EVER granted tax exempt "registered charitable" status to begin with.

[vanisleflamesfan]

Umm yeah... as an addendum to my original post for the purposes of summing it up:

As a leftward leaning person, I have heard this in various contexts at various times in various arguements, so I am always glad when I can use it for my own purposes, so here goes a taste of your own medicine:

Ready?

Those are the laws of this country; if you don't like it... move to _______!

[HOZ]

Go to love this.


Yes all Free thinkers UNITE!!!!!


Conform to state ideology or else we will send you to reeducation camps in Siberia....errr Nunavut!


How dare you think differently!

[ben voyonsdonc]

Despite my "small l" liberal views, I don't believe that Churches should lose their tax exempt status if they do not conform to the Charter. On the other hand, the principles of the Charter and the other constitutional documents are the guiding principles of the government, its branches and the laws passed and therefore they must follow those principles. One of the principles of the Charter is freedom of religiion and this grants religion the right to allow their scriptures to be their guiding principles as opposed to the Charter.

I don't like a lot of what the churches say and do but the government does not have a right to dictate principles to religious bodies. One small but important proviso is that religious individuals are still bound by the Criminal Code with regards to hate speech and crimes. There isn't (and shouldn't be) an exemption given to religious individuals with regards to physical and psychological attacks on those who do not fit into their view of the world.

[ben voyonsdonc]

However, I believe that churches/mosques/synagogues should automatically lose their tax exemption status if they (as an organization) openly support a candidate or party. Churches are meant to be spiritual organizations rather than political machines for any particular party.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by vanisleflamesfan

The legislation that gives 'churches' tax exempt status as charities, requires them to perform tasks that are in direct, blatant, opposition to the Charter.

Can you elaborate on this?

[mykalberta]

Are there no religious freedoms in the Charter of Rights?

If no then they should lose them, if yes then they should keep them.

MYK

[ben voyonsdonc]

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
a) freedom of conscience and religion;

32. (1)This Charter applies

a) to the Parliament and government of Canada in respect of all matters within the authority of Parliament including all matters relating to the Yukon Territory and Northwest Territories; and b) to the legislature and government of each province in respect of all matters within the authority of the legislature of each province.

The key to the last point is: where does the Charter apply? The answer is that it only applies to the laws of the country not to the beliefs and customs of religious organizations.

[troutman]

Tax the FATA out of churches.
- Frank Zappa

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
a) freedom of conscience and religion;

32. (1)This Charter applies

a) to the Parliament and government of Canada in respect of all matters within the authority of Parliament including all matters relating to the Yukon Territory and Northwest Territories; and b) to the legislature and government of each province in respect of all matters within the authority of the legislature of each province.

The key to the last point is: where does the Charter apply? The answer is that it only applies to the laws of the country not to the beliefs and customs of religious organizations.

Exactly....that is the problem most people don't realize....the Charter applies to the government...not individual organizations.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Churches do a lot of amazing volunteer work for people and I would never want to discourage that by taking away their tax exemption. However, I really disagree with the way that our governments have been downloading a lot of responsibility to churches and volunteer organizations when it comes to taking care of the poor and homeless. The existence of churches and volunteer organizations shouldn't allow our governments to abdicate their role in fighting poverty.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Exactly....that is the problem most people don't realize....the Charter applies to the government...not individual organizations.

That is definitely true. However, each province has its own "Human Rights Code" or legislation which applies to organizations such as work and school. However, they do not apply to religious institutions.

Let me reiterate -- I am not a so-con -- I am actually a New Democrat .

[corporatejay]

Exactly....that is the problem most people don't realize....the Charter applies to the government...not individual organizations.

yes but if the government has a law that exempts churches from paying taxes they are in effect funding organizations that violate the charter.

there are a whole bunch of boring tests that we learned in first year that determine whetehr something is "government or not and whether the legislation is valid or not.


and re: human rights codes. That is also correct but again there are exceptions, it's not like you can say that everything that discriminates violates your human rights.

[Winsor_Pilates]

What does this have to do with freedom of religion?

Freedom of religion is the freedom to practice religion, not freedom from taxes.

I don't see any good reason they should not pay taxes.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

What does this have to do with freedom of religion?

Freedom of religion is the freedom to practice religion, not freedom from taxes.

I don't see any good reason they should not pay taxes.

The original question was whether they should lose their tax exemption status if they don't follow the Charter not whether the tax exemption itself is valid.

Catholicism is the biggest denomination of Christianity in Canada. However it is not a monolithic group of anti-abortionists and homophobes -- there is a fairly big schism between what the Church doctrine says and the average Catholic believes and does. As a result, the Church has been declining in attendance and influence because it hasn't yet adopted to the changing viewpoints of the average Catholic. Believe it or not but Catholics as a whole are more supportive of the Liberals than they are of the Conservatives.

Also, the biggest Protestant denominations of Christianity in Canada are not the hard right evangelical denominations but in fact more liberal denominations such as Anglicans and the United Church. Both of these organizations have made steps to being more inclusive of women and gays and lesbians.

[alltherage]

I don't want really to get into a crazy religious debate, but I know that Catholics are largely viewed as homophobes. Really, they just expect the same rules for everyone: Sex is for love AND babies. Not just one or the other, but BOTH. Thats why birth control is looked down on, and why homosexual relationships are looked down on. Neither of those leave room for natural, uninhibited pro-creation.

I think we can safely say that the Charter is flawed. I think if its against someone's religion for example to marry two (fe)males then it should be their freedom without any type of special or unspecial treatment. (such as different tax exemptions). A limit on freedom isn't freedom at all.

They are really going to have to tackle the CCRF soon.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Ok....I don't really get it....aren't all churches non-profit??? Meaning they don't make a profit....meaning income = expenditures....meaning no tax collected?

Like really....why do we need to make money off of organizations that generally do good things for the community.

What's next....the Kinsmen club because they do not allow women??

[CaramonLS]

....Or you could just let women become priests?