Idot Drivers (I think he means Idiot)

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Because it DOES slow down traffic. Instead of forcing someone in the main lane to stop and let you in....You should be driving along the line of traffic and enter at one of the spots along the way as traffic is moving....this will prevent cars from having to stop and let people in....it will allow the traffic to flow continually.

THAT IS WHY THE HELL NOT

It is a bottleneck. Traffic is not moving anyhow, and there is NEVER sufficient space in the through lane to merge. Someone in the through lane always has to create space to let other people in. While I'm of the belief that "traffic engineering" is black magic at best, there is a fundamental capacity to every road, which cannot simply be increased by dreaming of sunshine and lollipops.

You can argue that people travelling in the "lane ends" lane DO slow down the trip for the people in the through lane. On average, though, trip time through a bottleneck is unchanged.

[4X4]

Thanks Cube. I think Joliner needs to re-read my post.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by ernie

Merging isn't the sole responsibility of the person on the entrance ramp. People on the main road are supposed to make room for people that are merging.

In Calgary people don't know how to do either.

Calgary drivers as a rule won't let other drivers merge in. Countless times i've tried to merge with the other driver speeding up to close the gap. I merge in regardless with the idiot honking his horn and giving me the finger.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Thanks Cube. I think Joliner needs to re-read my post.

I don't have a problem with people who are already in the soon-to-be closing lane and merge smoothly into the remaining lanes. That's what you're supposed to do. What annoys me when someone will go from one of the slow but non-ending lanes and pop into the ending lane just to zip ahead of a dozen or so cars and then expect others to let him back in line. You can wait like everyone else.

If everyone merges out of the ending lane into the other lanes well in advance then things would run smoothly too. Indeed the number of cars travelling on the road might exceed the capacity for the remaining lanes in this situation. It's gonna happen whether you merge early or be a dick about it. At least if everyone merges early, no one needs to come to a complete halt or wait before progressing in order to let an impatient driver into their lane.

It's a bit of a dilemma though. If everyone follows the non-4x4 system things will progress fine. If even a few drivers start driving like 4x4 then there's no benefit to being nice and merging early. Might as well be a free for all.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by fredr123

If everyone merges out of the ending lane into the other lanes well in advance then things would run smoothly too. Indeed the number of cars travelling on the road might exceed the capacity for the remaining lanes in this situation. It's gonna happen whether you merge early or be a dick about it. At least if everyone merges early, no one needs to come to a complete halt or wait before progressing in order to let an impatient driver into their lane.

This (bold) is your utopian misconception. When a roadway's capacity is reduced below demand, it doesn't just slow down...it stops somewhere and/or the congestion backs up. In Utopia, a capacity reduction would require everyone approaching the congestion to slow down, with the slowdown extending farther and farther backwards unless demand decreases. In reality, the people approaching congestion don't know about it until they've hit it, so the required slowdown doesn't happen...traffic just piles up.

It's like drinking through a straw. You can only suck so hard before the straw collapses. Within that limit, it doesn't matter whether you're drinking out of a tall & skinny glass or a short & wide one...it takes the same amount of time to drink the stuff.

More courteous drivers could yield a more even distribution of wait times in a congested location, but the average wait time cannot be changed. Even if drivers slowed down and increased space far in advance of a congested area, the result is the same. Instead of a 1 km-long stop-and-go traffic jam moving at an average of 5 km/h, we could have a 3 km-long traffic jam moving continuously at an average of 15 km/h. Regardless, the end result is the same.

[worth]

[Looger]

haha i love that movie

EDIT: oops that's not from a movie, i think that's from a website.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

This (bold) is your utopian misconception. When a roadway's capacity is reduced below demand, it doesn't just slow down...it stops somewhere and/or the congestion backs up. In Utopia, a capacity reduction would require everyone approaching the congestion to slow down, with the slowdown extending farther and farther backwards unless demand decreases. In reality, the people approaching congestion don't know about it until they've hit it, so the required slowdown doesn't happen...traffic just piles up.

It's like drinking through a straw. You can only suck so hard before the straw collapses. Within that limit, it doesn't matter whether you're drinking out of a tall & skinny glass or a short & wide one...it takes the same amount of time to drink the stuff.

More courteous drivers could yield a more even distribution of wait times in a congested location, but the average wait time cannot be changed. Even if drivers slowed down and increased space far in advance of a congested area, the result is the same. Instead of a 1 km-long stop-and-go traffic jam moving at an average of 5 km/h, we could have a 3 km-long traffic jam moving continuously at an average of 15 km/h. Regardless, the end result is the same.

Seems like you know a lot more about this stuff than I do. But that straw analogy doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not mad that the straw's collapsing. I'm upset that some blueberries in my milk shake seem to think they need to go through the straw ahead of the raspberries and banana chunks.

[4X4]

I just love the roman way of driving. Everyone pulls up as far as they can and then just starts poking their nose in. Nobody gets mad, everyone gets to where they're going. If one car pokes his nose in front of mine, he gets in and then I go. There's no chance for another car to do it because of the angle of the guy's car. It really does work quite well. That's what I do, and convincing me that it's uncourteous or anything like that is just going to be impossible. It's purely logical IMO.
This is for bumper to bumper traffic.

[Philly06Cup]

It's called Weaving. When there is a bottleneck, ideally, both the straight lane and then ending lane should have an equal amount of cars, and at the point of bottleneckage, cars alternate, i.e. , weave into the proper lane. This is the fairest way to determine traffic, and keeps traffic moving.

But, instead, the majority of drivers choose to wait in the longer straight lane, and then get angry when someone cuts in front of them. That's their problem for waiting in the slower lane, though. Drivers just need to learn how to weave.

[4X4]

Philly06 is right on the money.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Philly06 is right on the money.

Philly06 is probably the guy Jolinar fingered this morning

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Dion

Calgary drivers as a rule won't let other drivers merge in. Countless times i've tried to merge with the other driver speeding up to close the gap. I merge in regardless with the idiot honking his horn and giving me the finger.

Dont come to TO then. To be 100% honest TO is MUCH worse then Calgary...come drive here for 6 months and go back to Calgary...everyone seems like your best friend!

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

It's called Weaving. When there is a bottleneck, ideally, both the straight lane and then ending lane should have an equal amount of cars, and at the point of bottleneckage, cars alternate, i.e. , weave into the proper lane. This is the fairest way to determine traffic, and keeps traffic moving.

But, instead, the majority of drivers choose to wait in the longer straight lane, and then get angry when someone cuts in front of them. That's their problem for waiting in the slower lane, though. Drivers just need to learn how to weave.

Ohh yeah that would work.

Sure its fine when 5-10% of the cars on a busy road are weaving...there is room for that. Imagine a packed rush hour on Deerfoot and EVERY CAR on the foot is weaving in and out of lanes.....can you say 400 car pileup?

[MonsieurFish]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

Fixed it for ya!

lawl good one, i laughed

[maverickeastwood]

How about this...it's snows, it's slippery. we all have walked and slipped on ice and we weigh nothing compared to the rolling iron masses that we love so much. It hurts when that happens. Yet, people continue to try and defy the laws of physics (mass/coeefficient of friction) and drive like it's summertime. I stay off the deerfoot if at all possible

[maverickeastwood]

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

It's called Weaving. When there is a bottleneck, ideally, both the straight lane and then ending lane should have an equal amount of cars, and at the point of bottleneckage, cars alternate, i.e. , weave into the proper lane. This is the fairest way to determine traffic, and keeps traffic moving.

But, instead, the majority of drivers choose to wait in the longer straight lane, and then get angry when someone cuts in front of them. That's their problem for waiting in the slower lane, though. Drivers just need to learn how to weave.

And at times, I can still catch you...and I'm in the slow lane. Traffic lights, ahh

[algernon]

Originally Posted by Draug

I hear you!



Also, relating to merging.... I cant stand the people that merge onto a major road at a speed way less than the speed limit. You HAVE to merge into a flowing road at the rate of traffic! A good way to die is to merge onto Deerfoot at half the speed. Then, undoubtedly, the impatient person behind the slow merger, quickly darts out across two or three lanes of traffic causing instant slowdowns. That, in turn, turns into grid lock and a 1 hour commute home....

I completely agree. That and the rubbernecking at the oncoming lane's slowdown/ stoll / accident/ whatever.

what about
A 8-9' high meridian visual barrier starting at the calf robe bridge +/-100m each way? Possibly other places where people get distracted easily by oncoming goings on?

I have travelled that stretch at least 200 times in the last couple of years during rush hour, and think the majority of the delays are related to the oncomming lane's issues. Flashing lights, a wreck, etc,etc. If we had a way to seperate the collective attention spans, things would move swifter.

I totally understand the instinct to slow down when seeing emergency vehicles. It's the LAW to slow down to 60km when you are in the adjacent lane, approaching emergency vehicles. What's happening in the other lane just doesn't matter.

It's about flow, people.

[Antithesis]

4x4, I can't help but think that your "I stop to let in 3 people who have gone to the end of the lane in" is just a bit of chest thumping because that really is a ridiculous statement for someone advocating using an entire lane to improve traffic flow ... for me (and I'm sure you care about that a whole lot ) it takes what might be an arguable point and makes you seem like a jerk.

At any rate, I think a lot of people take this type of driving as some kind of personal affront ... that the person doing this figurs their time is more important than the others'. Whether that's true or not, I dunno, but that probably is the case. The one that really, really gets to me is the one that's been posted several times already, where people are in the "proper" lane and move out in to the closing lane to get ahead by a bit.

At any rate, some drivers in Calgary do indeed need to remember adage, if you're so important (like so many of the jerks seem to think they are) the people you are rushing to see will wait for you.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

I've been watching Ewan McGregor's documentary (Long Way Round) about riding around the world on Enduro Bikes, and it was interesting to note that Alberta was where he had the most problems with drivers and his own physical safety.

I've always just attributed our state of traffic to people reminiscing about what it was like in the good old days of pop. 600,000 but after seeing someone survive all of Europe and Siberia, only to get into an accident with some young punk in Alberta raised an eyebrow....