[PGT] Flames squander another crucial one. 5-3 VGK

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

What I don't understand is growing up in calgary, ignoring sports for most your life (not this part - to each their own) but then one day deciding you want to be a fan of hockey, then going out and buying merch for a team from a city you've never visited, with no familial connection to of any kind, but just cause you want to be different. There are a number of people that will do this.

It is a little weird, and I wouldn't buy into your fandom. It looks more like you're "trying on the hockey fan thing" for a bit but without understanding the meaning and rationale behind actually being one.

People have given me the strangest, most obscure reasons for why they support a team and I always just come back to "why don't you just support your local/hometown club? It's a better reason.

But dont get me wrong, I can understand wanting to like a team that is easier to cheer for from year to year. I personally just couldn't abandon my hometown ties, as they are too deep.

There's a myriad of reasons why someone might choose another team. I don't hold it against them. Maybe they like the jersey. Maybe they have an affinity to one of the players on the team, or something they like about the city. I know a couple people who are born and bred Calgarians and absolutely hate the Flames because, growing up, they hated cheering for the same team as their older siblings, and it stuck with them to their adult life.

[dino7c]

Being a bandwagon fan has always been shameful...it's not necessarily the expansion team thing it's just in this case is so obvious they jumped on the bandwagon because they won right away.

Nobody is that big of a fan of a team that has never had hard times...it's just fake, it takes time to build real emotions and alliances towards a sports team. To be painted head to toe screaming your head off because a team you have liked for two years wins a regular season game is lame...I don't buy it that you care that much, it more of an attention thing.

IMO

In 15 years when Vegas has had some off years and the novellty has worn off then you can talk to me about being a die hard fan

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by AC

As Elkyiv said above, it comes across as contrarian and pretentious. If you don't have an actual connection to the city or team I feel it's an embarrassing look to support a bandwagon expansion team over any local team you should be supporting.

Bandwagon fans might be more well adjusted than loyal fans.

Here we are season after season pulling our hair out over disappointing seasons and the bandwagon fan is having a great time supporting a winning hockey team. Following hockey is supposed to be about entertainment, so why not be entertained?

Anyway, there are fans that follow players over teams and switch favorite teams to follow their player. Are they lesser fans?

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Being a bandwagon fan has always been shameful...it's not necessarily the expansion team thing it's just in this case is so obvious they jumped on the bandwagon because they won right away.

Nobody is that big of a fan of a team that has never had hard times...it's just fake, it takes time to build real emotions and alliances towards a sports team. To be painted head to toe screaming your head off because a team you have liked for two years wins a regular season game is lame...I don't buy it that you care that much, it more of an attention thing.

IMO

In 15 years when Vegas has had some off years and the novellty has worn off then you can talk to me about being a die hard fan

Yeah. They can claim they're fans for whatever reason they like, but down the road when they've gone through several years of 10th-14th place finishes, we'll see just how many of these Calgary based Vegas fans are paying to go cheer in the stands in their gear.

The ones who are there then are the ones worthy of a hat tip and friendly fist bump of respect.

I doubt most of these people will be those fans though.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

This type of miss-representation of other peoples views is why this debates go down hill. I literally just said those teams didn't have enough talent. How can I say that while at the same time be scape-goating things on one player?
I don't think those teams had enough talent up front, and even the defense never came together as thought.

My view to trade Johnny is in part because I don't think he's truly committed to what he needs to do to win, but moreso because, as I've stated numerous times, one of the following 3 things will happen in the next 2 years
- Johnny is traded
- Johnny walks
- Johnny is signed to another deal, that is likely very risky and not great long-term.

So in my view the best option is the first one.

I'm not ignoring coaching. I literally said today that I'm in favor of both changing the roster and bringing in a more proven coach. How is that ignoring coaching?

How do you want to change the roster besides getting rid Gaudreau? I get it, as I wish he was stronger, harder on the puck, had a more complete game and was as consistent as the game's elite players. But he isn't and we've known that for quite a while.

I just don't recall your roster suggestions besides beating the trade Gaudreau drum. IMO trading him may work out, but doesn't in and of itself, solve anything.

[stone hands]

maybe they just dont like how the flames have been mediocre for 30 straight years, have awful management and in-game entertainment, how they handled the arena situation, or another myriad of reasons?

being born some place is just as arbitrary as any other reason. i know people who are fans of other teams even though they were raised here because their parents were fans of other teams, does that make them traitors?

when choosing what laundry you want to get excited for, i dont think any reason is more valid than another, including there being a local team, but i acknowledge that its not a popular view point

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

How do you want to change the roster besides getting rid Gaudreau? I get it, as I wish he was stronger, harder on the puck, had a more complete game and was as consistent as the game's elite players. But he isn't and we've known that for quite a while.

I just don't recall your roster suggestions besides beating the trade Gaudreau drum. IMO trading him may work out, but doesn't in and of itself, solve anything.

I've been focused on him because I think the decision needs to be made this summer, to maximize value and before he becomes harder to trade.
But I would take a look at the entire roster. Perhaps Monny needs to go too.

[Robo]

Calling vegas fans out because they are a new team is f###### pathetic are some people on here so insecure that they have to come up with imaginary reasons why adults shouldn't cheer for vegas that is absolutely ridiculous

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I've been focused on him because I think the decision needs to be made this summer, to maximize value and before he becomes harder to trade.
But I would take a look at the entire roster. Perhaps Monny needs to go too.

Giordano should be jettisoned before he declines anymore.

I know you won't like to hear this, but you had Gaudreau traded as soon as the ink dried on his contract.

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...5&postcount=11

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Giordano should be jettisoned before he declines anymore.

I know you won't like to hear this, but you had Gaudreau traded as soon as the ink dried on his contract.

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...5&postcount=11

Well sure. I don't know why I wouldn't like to hear that. It's been my view since then and nothing has changed my mind about it.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Robo

Calling vegas fans out because they are a new team is f###### pathetic are some people on here so insecure that they have to come up with imaginary reasons why adults shouldn't cheer for vegas that is absolutely ridiculous

I just don't buy that they actually care that much if they win or lose...seems more like a look at me thing

Disagree if you like

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by stone hands

maybe they just dont like how the flames have been mediocre for 30 straight years, have awful management and in-game entertainment, how they handled the arena situation, or another myriad of reasons?

being born some place is just as arbitrary as any other reason. i know people who are fans of other teams even though they were raised here because their parents were fans of other teams, does that make them traitors?

when choosing what laundry you want to get excited for, i dont think any reason is more valid than another, including there being a local team, but i acknowledge that its not a popular view point

Sure but if you don't stick with a team it's lame and fake...we aren't talking about a 40 year old Leafs fan who cheers for them because the old man did. The team isn't even 3 years old, if you have no connection you jumped on the bandwagon because they won and will in all likelihood hop off just as quick.

I think 70% of NHL teams would trade their rosters for the new expansion rules too... everything they have was a gift, hardly shrewd management. Geography and the NHLs desire to have them be good

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Sure but if you don't stick with a team it's lame and fake...we aren't talking about a 40 year old Leafs fan who cheers for them because the old man did. The team isn't even 3 years old, if you have no connection you jumped on the bandwagon because they won.

anecdotally i know a guy who was born and raised in calgary and has never liked the flames. when vgk was announced he immediately bought a jersey because they look cool and is from what i can tell a big fan of them the same way i'm a fan of the flames

it is definitely possible, but more to the point is: who cares? if they want to bandwagon, go for it. i dont know any calgary flames and only cheer for them by default, the actual business of the flames has made me become far less invested in the team. in the end we are all outside observers who have no impact on the product on the ice or their bottom line, so cheer for whoever the hell you want, its not a contest for who is the most authentic martyr, its watching freak athletes slap a piece of rubber around with a stick and being entertained by it

[dino7c]

All that being they can win tonight

[hwy19man]

Post game links
https://scores.nbcsports.com/nhl/rec...=58&final=true
http://sportsstats.cbc.ca/hockey/nhl...ore127535.html

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by stone hands

anecdotally i know a guy who was born and raised in calgary and has never liked the flames. when vgk was announced he immediately bought a jersey because they look cool and is from what i can tell a big fan of them the same way i'm a fan of the flames

it is definitely possible, but more to the point is: who cares? if they want to bandwagon, go for it. i dont know any calgary flames and only cheer for them by default, the actual business of the flames has made me become far less invested in the team. in the end we are all outside observers who have no impact on the product on the ice or their bottom line, so cheer for whoever the hell you want, its not a contest for who is the most authentic martyr, its watching freak athletes slap a piece of rubber around with a stick and being entertained by it

Damn, bro.

Way to go and make us all feel so... primitive.

[Joborule]

This talk about fandom is really coming off as Kevin Lowe tiers of fans like.

Who cares? If a fan wants to cheer for a team from another city than the city they are in, let them. There's no law they have to cheer for the hometown team. And they're not less of a person for cheering for another team than your own. (Unless they're Oilers fans)

Fans of the visiting team, and bandwagons are the type of fans the organization, and the league likes if they invest money into the tickets, concessions, and merchandise.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Sure but if you don't stick with a team it's lame and fake...we aren't talking about a 40 year old Leafs fan who cheers for them because the old man did. The team isn't even 3 years old, if you have no connection you jumped on the bandwagon because they won and will in all likelihood hop off just as quick.

I think 70% of NHL teams would trade their rosters for the new expansion rules too... everything they have was a gift, hardly shrewd management. Geography and the NHLs desire to have them be good

I know Vegas has been my wife’s second favourite team since before they had their expansion draft, mainly because she loves the city. Mind you she’d never cheer for them over the Flames or wear a Vegas jersey unless maybe she was in Vegas watching them play, say, the Kings. We wore Flames jerseys to a game there.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Bandwagon fans might be more well adjusted than loyal fans.

Here we are season after season pulling our hair out over disappointing seasons and the bandwagon fan is having a great time supporting a winning hockey team. Following hockey is supposed to be about entertainment, so why not be entertained?

Anyway, there are fans that follow players over teams and switch favorite teams to follow their player. Are they lesser fans?

There are no greater or lesser fans. End of the day, people are all just fans. The ideology of a good vs bandwagon vs a bad fan doesn’t matter. Cheer for whoever the hell you like. Makes no difference to me, nor do I care about anyone elses reason as to why they chose a team.

As far as the local aspect, it’s not always that way. I have been a Flames fan since I was a kid but if they were to be moved to another city, I’d continue to be a Flames follower regardless. Even if a new NHL franchise came to Calgary I wouldn’t cheer for them.

I may be in the minority but I don’t follow any other local team in the city. I have other teams I cheer for in other sports (CFL, WHL, CIS) which are not Calgary based(Hitmen, Stamps, Dinos etc).

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Well sure. I don't know why I wouldn't like to hear that. It's been my view since then and nothing has changed my mind about it.

If you don't think signing Gaudreau to a big money long term contract makes sense, I understand. I hope we don't make a bigger mistake with Taylor Hall.

You're worried about Gaudreau leaving for nothing? Me too. But I see a bigger risk with Tkachuk and the club has a much more rapidly declining asset in Giordano.

You like the haul Gaudreau would bring? OK, let's hear it. What will the team look like post Gaudreau with the players acquired?

When I see countless posts calling for Gaudreau's trade, often citing his diet, and starting from when he was signed, I'm left thinking the poster is rather focused on the player being a source of the team's issues. You may well be right, but I don't think as someone who observes your take on Gaudreau this way I'm not trying to "misrepresent" your views or "bring the discussion down". That's a little harsh IMO.