NHL projects salary cap to rise from $81.5mil to $84 mil-$88.2 mil

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

What a poor comparison. O Reilly is a 200 foot complete smart centre, Hall is an one dimensional dumb player that hurts his teams more then helps. It is absolutely clear many fans here are talking without actually watching Taylor Hall play. The NJ Devils are a disaster and their fans were ready to throw a party when he was dealt. The Coyotes have fallen like a stone since getting him. I described a play at the end of the game the other night that showed how Hall cost his team a chance to tie the game. Where were the Hall lovers? Nowhere, crickets. What good is an almost ppg player when he consistently costs his teams wins with dumb plays or he is injured again? He would become the biggest whipping boy in CP history within his first year. His contract will be ugly and by signing it you can kiss any cap space goodbye. THat would be so Calgary Flames to sign a garbage player like Hall and then lose Tkachuk because they can't afford him.

If you want people to take your takes on a player as seriously as you appear to, you might want to figure out when to use "then" vs "than" in a sentence. Otherwise you're setting yourself up for shade from jerks like me.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I'm not a big fan of Hall, and have mixed feelings about getting him "for free" but dear lord I hate the argument that is "you don't agree with me so clearly you haven't watched the player".

Two people can watch a player a lot and have completely different opinions.

Hell look at how you and I each feel about Johnny. Clearly both of us have watched him a ton - yet we have completely different views. Doesn't mean either of us hasn't watched him.

Fair enough, it just is beyond me why someone who watches him play doesn't see the constant poor decisions the guy makes. I can't understand the fit here either. He has a history of injuries. He has no idea where the defensive zone is. And he plays a position we have a surplus of depth at. This seems like people wanting the fancy new toy available even though they already have better models. If he was a RW RS I still would not be a fan but at least I would understand the reasoning behind it. There is no fit here though, are we going to pay him 9.5-10M a year to play 3rd line LW? I get some think Gaudreau gets dealt but I just don't see it, Tre loves him, the majority of the fan base loves him, he sells merch, and despite unfound speculation on here he has said in the past he would love to spend his career here. Is Taylor Hall better than JG? I really don't think so.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

If you want people to take your takes on a player as seriously as you appear to, you might want to figure out when to use "then" vs "than" in a sentence.

Oh, a focus on one spelling error. So what you are saying is you got nothing for a rebuttal. Thanks for clarifying.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Hall will be a much sought-after FA, with multiple offers.

I can't see him going to any team offering him the 3rd line LW spot.

He will get offered to play on a line with Johnny and Mony or Chucky and Lindy. Call whichever line he plays on the "Top Line"

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Fair enough, it just is beyond me why someone who watches him play doesn't see the constant poor decisions the guy makes. I can't understand the fit here either. He has a history of injuries. He has no idea where the defensive zone is. And he plays a position we have a surplus of depth at. This seems like people wanting the fancy new toy available even though they already have better models. If he was a RW RS I still would not be a fan but at least I would understand the reasoning behind it. There is no fit here though, are we going to pay him 9.5-10M a year to play 3rd line LW? I get some think Gaudreau gets dealt but I just don't see it, Tre loves him, the majority of the fan base loves him, he sells merch, and despite unfound speculation on here he has said in the past he would love to spend his career here. Is Taylor Hall better than JG? I really don't think so.

He is not going to play on the third line despite some absurd suggestions in this thread. The Flames certainly do not have a surplus of legit first line forwards who can score near a point per game.


Here is the thing. There are no draft picks coming. There is a lack of assets to trade to upgrade the roster and when it comes to the UFA market the Flames never get a meeting with the Tavares, or Panarin. Hall might be the first high end UFA since Bouwmeester to consider signing here. With this increase in cap they might be able to afford adding him while keeping Johnny for another year

[djsFlames]

Yeah you'd take ROR over Hall easily.

But there are no free/available RORs coming any time soon. We missed that bus. In order to add to this current core in their bid to do something meaningful while they are together you'd have to pay a price that probably hurts them as much as the acquisition helps them, since they have a lack of high end prospect chips to deal from. They've tried to get top 6 guys in Kadri and Zucker to no avail this past year, its proving to be a difficult task without subtracting one of the guys contributing to their success on the ice. Yes Hall is unpolished overall but you take him in your top six over Kadri and Zucker without question (Kadri, while valuable to add, is hardly an upgrade over the current play of Backund imo). This is their best shot to inject skill and production into the core without sacrificing current or future pieces.

I'm positive they wouldn't sign Hall to a contract that they foresee would negate their ability to lock up Tkachuk in a couple years. They're probably very clear and aware on that priority.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

What a poor comparison. O Reilly is a 200 foot complete smart centre, Hall is an one dimensional dumb player that hurts his teams more then helps. It is absolutely clear many fans here are talking without actually watching Taylor Hall play. The NJ Devils are a disaster and their fans were ready to throw a party when he was dealt. The Coyotes have fallen like a stone since getting him. I described a play at the end of the game the other night that showed how Hall cost his team a chance to tie the game. Where were the Hall lovers? Nowhere, crickets. What good is an almost ppg player when he consistently costs his teams wins with dumb plays or he is injured again? He would become the biggest whipping boy in CP history within his first year. His contract will be ugly and by signing it you can kiss any cap space goodbye. THat would be so Calgary Flames to sign a garbage player like Hall and then lose Tkachuk because they can't afford him.

Wasn't comparing ROR to Hall. You seem to be fixated on 'elite', whatever you define that to be. Would you consider ROR to be elite? Would you have considered him to be so prior to joining the blues?

Look, it's clear you have an exorbitant amount of time on your hands to post on CP every day in numerous threads (one can make their own conclusions there) Don't confuse that a lack of response as validation for your views.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Again, you said he had one good season which isnt true. If it was true he wouldnt have a career 0.9 points per game average.

First 2 seasons: good/bad/ugly/mediocre/injuries/whatever who cares it's 8 years ago

Seasons 3 and 4 were pretty darn good: (80 in 75, 50 in 45 lockout year)

Season 5-7 were pretty bleh: 60g, 156p in 207gp (0.75 ppg, 0.29 gpg); season 7 was first year with Devils.

Season 8: 39G 93P in 76gp; Hart.

Season 9: 11G 37P in 33gp

Season 10: 15G 50P in 63gp (0.79 ppg, 0.24 gpg)

Overall, I'm not sure that's a TV show I'd want to invest my time into.


One could argue that he has had a little less than 1.5 great seasons out of the last 6, with the other 4 seasons...[insert adjective here].

What does all of this mean? I don't know. But, let's take the most optimistic view for a second and drop S8 Hall onto last year's Flames in place of James Neal...does it get the team past the Avs? Not without a bunch more ret con IMO...obviously there are a lot other lenses to look at this through, but that thought experiment certainly dissuades me of any notion of 'adding' Hall to this core w/o other major change(s)

[Flames Draft Watcher]

There’s no way imo the Flames would move forward with Hall, Gaudreau and Tkachuk. Our salary structure would be effed paying so much to wingers which is the least important position.

Dissentowner’s take on Hall is hard to take seriously. Seems like he has an irrational dislike of the player. Gaudreau has limitations as does Hall, we’ll overlook Johnny’s because of his points but overlook Hall’s points because of his deficiencies? Not a consistent take, a clear double standard.

Adding Hall for no assets would be massive and I’m not even that huge a fan. He’s a threat, he’s a weapon. But adding him would allow us to trade Gaudreau for an absolute haul. Seeing how obsessed most on here are about asset management, anyone here who emphasizes asset management above all else should be eager to add Hall as a FA.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by MrMike

88.2, boom free money to sign Hall

Hall probably goes from a $10mil AAV to a $12mil AVV if the cap rises that much. Teams will have the same wide eyes that Treliving will have with the new found cap space.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Hall probably goes from a $10mil AAV to a $12mil AVV if the cap rises that much. Teams will have the same wide eyes that Treliving will have with the new found cap space.

Flames have to hope it is a Tavares type situation where they make a competitive offer but not necessarily the highest paid. If Hall wants to play on a good team and wants to play in Canada the Flames, Jets and Oilers are likely the only realistic teams. The Sens are too early in the rebuild and the Habs are overdue for a rebuild. The Nucks have their young players to worry about paying soon and the Leafs do not need another forward.

If all Hall cared about was money he would have stayed a Devil or will stay a Coyote as they likely offer top dollar and the 8th year

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

He will get offered to play on a line with Johnny and Mony or Chucky and Lindy. Call whichever line he plays on the "Top Line"

I was scanning through the thread,and posters had him on the left side. I assumed that was correct and responded as such. Should have taken the time to go back and quote someone.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Wasn't comparing ROR to Hall. You seem to be fixated on 'elite', whatever you define that to be. Would you consider ROR to be elite? Would you have considered him to be so prior to joining the blues?

Look, it's clear you have an exorbitant amount of time on your hands to post on CP every day in numerous threads (one can make their own conclusions there) Don't confuse that a lack of response as validation for your views.

Wtf does my posting on the board have to do with anything? No, O Reilly is not elite. Very few players are. If you don't like the amount I post go find a Leafs board. There is one at HF, your style of posting and knowledge about the game of hockey will fit perfectly there. Like you have nothing better to do with your life than troll on another teams board? And no, you are not a Flames fan, nobody is remotely buying that.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

There’s no way imo the Flames would move forward with Hall, Gaudreau and Tkachuk. Our salary structure would be effed paying so much to wingers which is the least important position.

Dissentowner’s take on Hall is hard to take seriously. Seems like he has an irrational dislike of the player. Gaudreau has limitations as does Hall, we’ll overlook Johnny’s because of his points but overlook Hall’s points because of his deficiencies? Not a consistent take, a clear double standard.

Adding Hall for no assets would be massive and I’m not even that huge a fan. He’s a threat, he’s a weapon. But adding him would allow us to trade Gaudreau for an absolute haul. Seeing how obsessed most on here are about asset management, anyone here who emphasizes asset management above all else should be eager to add Hall as a FA.

Speaking of irrational dislike of players, pot meet kettle. I don't know of any other poster on this board that irrationally dislikes Gaudreau as much as you. To each their own though. Going from Gaudreau to Hall is a significant downgrade imo.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Wtf does my posting on the board have to do with anything? No, O Reilly is not elite. Very few players are. If you don't like the amount I post go find a Leafs board. There is one at HF, your style of posting and knowledge about the game of hockey will fit perfectly there. Like you have nothing better to do with your life than troll on another teams board? And no, you are not a Flames fan, nobody is remotely buying that.

You really have no idea what you're talking about....on so many levels.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Let me preface this by saying that I really am not a fan of Hall's game. However, he is unquestionably a top-line offensive player and driver, and he can add a lethal shot to this team, is a legitimate threat to score at distance, and adds a tonne of speed to the line-up which should definitely help the transition game.


Hall - Monahan - Gaudreau
Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm


That's a damn good top 6. Among the best in the NHL.


Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Hall - Backlund - Tkachuk


Same difference. One of them will work.



No, keeping Gaudreau on the team is NOT 'continuing to build around Gaudreau'. That's a bit short-sighed in my view. Flames are not trying to build around anyone. Any team that does that fails. Teams try to acquire the most talent and build the best teams by filling the holes around that talent. Gaudreau won't be the only talented player. He will just be one of the talented players on the roster.


Now, asset management - the rationale in acquiring Hall and trading Gaudreau.


Does anyone here believe that another team is going to offer up there equally talented but younger player who is cost controlled for more years in a trade for Gaudreau? I don't think so. If that happens, by all means make the trade Treliving. I just don't think that is realistic. Only a contender is going to want to acquire Gaudreau seeing as he is signed for just another 2 years. That usually ends up being a futures for player deal. Maybe you can wrangle a good player off their roster plus a pick. Maybe it will fill a good hole in this line-up plus gives us the opportunity to draft a Pastrnak... or more realistically, another Jankowski. Hey, that's not bad either though, as remember in the 2013 draft and the 3 first rounders that the Flames went in with? 2 of them haven't cracked the NHL yet (or ever by how things are going), and that was a very good draft year too. That's how I see things... it COULD work out very well, but usually trading away the most talented player results in a lacklustre return. You are taking a gamble. I would rather take the gamble and try to assemble the best team to win the cup with how this team is constructed (ages of certain players, contract statuses, etc).



I also look at this roster and I see that the best time to go all-in was last season and this season. Why? Well, if the rumours are true and Brodie is leaving, that's going to hurt more than people realize. Giordano is getting older. Tkachuk's big pay raise is going to kick-in after the next two seasons - and even then he might take his case to arbitration and then become a UFA the following season. There is also not a heck of a lot of legitimate blue-chip talent coming up through the pipeline these days. I like a number of the prospects that the Flames have, but even my usually optimistic me can't point at them and say: "Definite 1st line talent, but at least 2nd line talent!". I see a lot more realistic depth - some middle-six players, some players that are more bottom 6 or bottom line players..


The Hamonic acquisition really hurt in that regards, and having Brodie leaving is really another big blow. That's at least a combined 2 first round picks level of talent leaving.


I think signing Hall and then dealing Gaudreau is essentially spinning the Flames spinning their wheels a bit. I say you go all-in with Hall AND Gaudreau, and even use some additional assets in trying to replace a Brodie and plug a hole in terms of a RHS winger.



Flames get a solid 2 tries at bat. I like their depth. I hate the coaching - hope they fix that as the system doesn't do much for the make-up of the team, so unless they want to retool for a few seasons until they are a big, nasty and skilled team that play chip-and-chase grind the other team into dust sort of team, then by all means keep the coaching staff. I think Treliving absolutely has to move away from 'Babcockian' hockey. This team is not suited for it. Heck, even Darryl Sutter touched on this stating that the Flames transitioned way too slow under Gulutzan and that in today's NHL, teams must transition lightning quick.


Either go all in...


Or sell sell sell. Make a major retool for the next 2 seasons. I don't think they need to bottom-out, but I wouldn't be against it. Just please don't do any 'accelerations'.


I think with the right coaching - and somehow replacing the loss of Brodie - this team can find its' way into being a bona-fide contender as early as next season with the Hall acquisition. They can be a legitimately dangerous team to defend against and will have a very quick transition. A defencemen like Hanifin - though I don't think he will ever be as good as Brodie is at moving the puck - should really start blossoming in a system like that. Giordano can hopefully return to a better producer - at least until father time remembers who he is. I don't know.. call me crazy, but that's how I see this team turning things around.


Asset managing in acquiring Hall and trading Gaudreau is great and all on paper, but you don't win cups by having the deepest organizations. I don't think you will return a player AS talented as Gaudreau. Could that player become a better fit? Maybe... but maybe not too. I just don't think most teams end up as talented when they trade away top line talent. I am betting that Nashville wants a redo on their trade sending Seth Jones away, for instance.


I really don't want to be Treliving right now. If I was and didn't get Hall, I for sure try and get the most proven coach I could, and try to fill up holes and hope for the best. I would be thinking major retool + coach right now if I was in his situation.

[TheIronMaiden]

The players' only mechanism for trying to get escrow lowered at this point is trying to keep the cap down, which is why that $88.2-million figure the NHL released was so outlandish. That figure would require the league to hit its high revenue projections for the rest of this season and the NHLPA to go with the full five percent inflator to the cap.

Multiple sources on the players' side said on Thursday that has almost no chance of happening. In fact, many believe the cap will not even reach the league's minimum projected figure of $84-million for next season, which would mean an increase of $2.5-million or less.

https://theathletic.com/1658061/2020...h-next-season/

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Speaking of irrational dislike of players, pot meet kettle. I don't know of any other poster on this board that irrationally dislikes Gaudreau as much as you. To each their own though. Going from Gaudreau to Hall is a significant downgrade imo.

It's not Gaudreau to Hall
It's Gaudreau to Hall+whatever Johnny can be traded for.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Sure, feel free to make up your own stuff then. Why would the actual definition of the word matter? Lol.

What do you define elite as? Maybe you are confusing it with Generational? Because elite just means among the best which Hall definitely is.

[Sylvanfan]

Realistically the offers for Hall will be 7 years and start at 11 per year.

Yes it would be nice to add him, but at 29 and his style of play, the contract will carry a large amount of risk at the back end. If you are going to pony up big time money for a UFA forward, the difference between a 27 and 29 year old player is huge.