Rate the Flames 2020 Trade Deadline

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by blankall

It actually makes logical sense for a bubble team not to trade off either existing contributing players or their first. Also, who says Brodie was bringing back a 1st?

And yes, with the way the Flames injury ridden defence looks, a top 2-3 winger is likely to be a major factor in whether or not they make the playoffs.

With the prices paid yesterday, Brodie was definitely worth a first.

top 2-3 defender I am assuming you meant, but nice freudian slip as I would have said a 2-3 winger would have been a major factor to help this team get into the playoffs.

I just hate this middle road bull####. If they want to push then make a trade to fill the holes. If they know (as most of us do) that this team isn't going to go far into the post season, why not load up for a real push next year?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I understand why people are disappointed by the decision to hold on to Brodie. (But I also think that these sorts of deals are FAR more difficult to make than most of us grasp.)

This. In order to trade Brodie you need a trading partner that:

a. Has a first they care to give; b. needs a Dman like Brodie; and c. can fit him into their cap.

Teams who are top contenders don't need a top 3 Dman. They are probably set there and don't want to mess with chemistry. They want depth. They are probably near the cap, too. Look at TB. They got a depth guy (Bogosian) and there's no way they could fit Brodie in.

Teams who are "in the hunt" like the Flames could likely use a Brodie but they are also looking at the strength of this draft and would be reluctant to pay the price for Brodie. They certanly aren't sending any of their useful players either. And they may be near the cap too. Look at Toronto, for example. They could use him for sure. But there's no way they pay the price, since they could still easily miss the POs.

The rebuilding teams don't want to give up draft picks obviously, and they don't want a rental. Brodie is a tad too old for their windows.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

With the prices paid yesterday, Brodie was definitely worth a first.

top 2-3 defender I am assuming you meant, but nice freudian slip as I would have said a 2-3 winger would have been a major factor to help this team get into the playoffs.

I just hate this middle road bull####. If they want to push then make a trade to fill the holes. If they know (as most of us do) that this team isn't going to go far into the post season, why not load up for a real push next year?

But who is going to pay that first? Not a rebuilding team, not a bubble team and very few contending teams that I can think of.

[Erick Estrada]

Hard to grade really because of the situation the team is in where they are in a playoff spot but still a good possibility to miss the playoffs. I would have preferred no trades for incoming players but I understand why they felt they had to. I also believe that it was in the best interests of the organization long term to trade Brodie and recoup some high draft picks for an asset that will be leaving the organization. If Treliving was bold enough to do that it would have been an A+ deadline for the team. I will give Treliving a C- grade because while I don't agree with sending out a 3rd and 4th round draft pick for depth defensemen, it could have been much, much worse as some other teams that also won't get a sniff of the cup made some pretty bad trades around this deadline.

[Stanley]

Best case scenario now would be to face the Oilers in the first round for a classic BoA and win...man would that ever be sooooo sweet...

[Robbob]

The Pacific is such a crap shoot, with any team being able to beat another in a series. I think that is another reason the Flames couldn't hard core sell. If you can get into the 1-3 Pacific spot or the WC1, the path isn't exactly that bad.

[The Cobra]

I give Tre an 8.

He got some usable assets for little and has Calgary poised to keep trying to make the playoffs. He didn't go overboard, nor should he have.

My personal opinion is that they should have moved Brodie, but that was never going to happen, as ownership is intent on winning, as is pretty much every NHL team.

That's the business of hockey.

[The Professor]

The thing about this culture of complaining that we live in is that the complainers are never called upon to back up their whining. The only situation we will know how it will turn out is the one we are in. So people can speak with such vitriol and confidence about what 'obviously should have been done' and will never ever be called to task. Obviously criticism is welcome, question, doubt, offer alternatives - but this idea that 'you' 'know' what we should have done is silly.

Although reading through the thread I see most posters with reasonable takes, I guess I was reacting to only the very loud minority of angry, self-righteous posters.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by The Professor

The thing about this culture of complaining that we live in is that the complainers are never called upon to back up their whining. The only situation we will know how it will turn out is the one we are in. So people can speak with such vitriol and confidence about what 'obviously should have been done' and will never ever be called to task. Obviously criticism is welcome, question, doubt, offer alternatives - but this idea that 'you' 'know' what we should have done is silly.

Although reading through the thread I see most posters with reasonable takes, I guess I was reacting to only the very loud minority of angry, self-righteous posters.

This is an internet message board, not debate club. We’re here to discuss millionaires playing a game for children on the TV and post silly pictures when they win. Nobody here has a moral imperative to justify their opinions when called upon.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

This. In order to trade Brodie you need a trading partner that:



a. Has a first they care to give; b. needs a Dman like Brodie; and c. can fit him into their cap...

On top of a that, Treliving would also likely have to convince Brodie to waive his NTC. It sure sounds like he structured it in such a way that ensured it would be very difficult to trade him in-season.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

This is an internet message board, not debate club. We’re here to discuss millionaires playing a game for children on the TV and post silly pictures when they win. Nobody here has a moral imperative to justify their opinions when called upon.

Most of us are here to discuss. Others seem to be here for no other reason than to complain. Is there anything that you don't feel compelled to whine about? I have yet to see it.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

[Flash Walken]

It's a 4 for me.

The deals done are pretty meaningless, it's the same playbook we've seen before from treliving.

Trade for a rugged big body defender with a recent significant injury history looking to spin straw into gold. If Tre is still on the job by July 1st and forbort appears healthy between now and then I think it's 9/10 likely he is re-signed and that conditional 4th becomes a 3rd, mimicking the Mike Stone acquisition.

Gustafson I don't think helps keeping the puck out of the net at all, and if the expectation for him down the stretch is to see significant minutes with the injury to hamonic, it could be a problem with the average goaltending the flames have been getting. The one-time weapon from the point feels like an old hockey cliche at this point. What we know is that point shots are the most innefficent shots you can take to produce goals because of the relative distance from the net and the amount of traffic between the shooter and the goalie.

If what Textcritic is saying is true that the flames are having no problems scoring but need help keeping picks out, then I don't see the point of this acquisition at all.

All things being equal it's better to have gustafsson on the point taking shots than it is hamonic, but I don't know if adding gustafsson is going to be some major goal scoring catalyst to the powerplay over the final 19 games of the season. Specifically, I feel like the flames have 2 candidates in Andersson and Kylington that could potentially provide the same impact, but are headscratchingly not deployed in that capacity. Gustafson also being a pending UFA means the Flames are looking at a 3rd round pick for 19 games, or signing a bottom pairing defender to an overpriced contract to avoid the free agency roulette. Again, shades of Michael Stone.

The flames have bled so many picks up to this point that I think these picks going out is pretty inconsequential right now. Picks or no picks, the dye has been cast years ago for whether this team has the necessary internal assets to compete, so I don't really care about the prices paid.

The major failure of this draft in my opinion is the trades that weren't made. I have to believe Brodie is as good as gone. Not realizing any draft or on ice compensation for next year on that expiring asset is ultimately a significant misstep for the organization. It would've been a misstep for any deadline, but seeing the prices that were paid specifically for the assets the flames had to sell, it's hard to justify losing both hamonic and brodie this off-season for nothing. Knowing what transpired at the deadline, I'm now even more confident predicting the flames will end up re-signing Harmonic, which will end up being a mistake from a value to performance ratio.

Ultimately the biggest criticism I have of how the management team approached the deadline this year is that I feel for the second straight year, they ran out of time. For me, that's a very damning critique as it speaks to a lack of plan.

6 years in you should know what you're doing and know what you've got by christmas, so to let a couple of injuries having you change course while still also contemplating moving Brodie as the rumours suggested, feels untethered and dithering. Being indecisive is one of the worst characteristics in a General Manager. As I've previously stated, timing is everything and I don't think treliving has it.

This deadline illustrated to me that nothing on that front has changed.

It appears to be a critical flaw.

[Stanley]

I'm still a believer that you see what this core can do this time around, especially with a wide-open pacific division this year...and then this summer make major/minor adjustments accordingly.

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

This is an internet message board, not debate club. We’re here to discuss millionaires playing a game for children on the TV and post silly pictures when they win. Nobody here has a moral imperative to justify their opinions when called upon.

Yeah for sure, I'm just saying that in my opinion, this is the worst thing about an internet message board (and I think this has permeated all through society). Not trying to stop anyone from sharing their opinions.

[CSharp]

Meh, the Flames team is a bubble team again. Even if they get into the playoffs, they're not going far anyways. So, was hoping someone would want to pay a hefty price to pry Bennett and/or Hannifin out of the Flames. Looks like Tre's got his work cut out for him to either try and renew Brodie or try to get back something before the Flames lose him to free agency. Losing him and Hamonic for nothing would mean big holes to fill on the D.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

...If what Textcritic is saying is true that the flames are having no problems scoring but need help keeping picks out, then I don't see the point of this acquisition at all...

That's part of what I said, not all of it, but leave it to you to cherry-pick. Perhaps I should have clarified that the forward group doesn't have any trouble scoring goals: they have scored 49 in 13 games since the ASG. In that same period only two defenseman have scored; over the course of the full season the Flames have received a total of 3 goals from the blue line on the powerplay. Gustafsson addresses an obvious need. I said as much when I also said this...

Originally Posted by Textcritic

...[The Flames] have suffered a dearth of scoring from defensemen, and have sorely lacked a good shot from the point on a middling power play. The additions of Frobort and Gustafsson absolutely address those needs...

[442scotty]

A friend used to say “you can’t sell from an empty wagon “. The Flames never really had any quality assets to sell that other teams would want. We want to get rid of lesser skilled players or players with low give a crap meters. No other team was willing to take our junk. The Flames also didn’t have too many of anything useful to sell either. Brodie is great in a lot of ways but not nearly capable of being physical and if he was we wouldn’t be trying to unload him. Hamonic being injured was unfortunate because maybe we could have received something for him.

[foofighter15]

Is the general belief that we wont be resigning Brodie?

[DJones]

I can't believe how many people wanted to sell Brodie in our current injury situation.

That would be a clear signal ownership doesn't want to make the playoffs which is just ridiculous in the current situation.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by foofighter15

Is the general belief that we wont be resigning Brodie?

People believe that, yes. He was already traded to Toronto, so it seems fairly likely that he will not be extended. Then again, a lot can change in a year, so I don't think that anyone has a good read on Brodie's future with the team as of today.