[Rumour] Flames have shown interest in Tyson Barrie. Discussed Brodie for Barrie 1 for 1

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I actually see it as having a more competitive team next season and beyond. The current group to me is not measuring up.

Agreed, however I thought the same thing last summer....

Something is wrong with the core.... I doubt time and patience will fix it...

Someone needs to go in the off-season

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I actually see it as having a more competitive team next season and beyond. The current group to me is not measuring up.

Exactly

[CsInMyBlood]

The Flames will know by now how possible it is to sign Brodie or if hes set on testing the UFA market. If they feel like the price tag is just too high or that Brodie s ready to move on, its obvious they would be more into the idea of moving him. They wont move him just for the sake of a 4th round pick.

[Bingo]

I'm not all that interested in a Trelving debate for the 110th time.

I'm absolutely fine with those that think he's a poor GM, needs to be replaced or just want change. All good for me.

What I don't see happening is selling ... the team is too close and even the least meddling ownership group is unlikely to want to just give up the season for their season ticket holder base. I think it would be amazing if that wasn't the case as I'd be looking to move parts if the prices run up and then retool in the summer.

The season has just not worked out, and the backbone of that has had their engine (Gaudreau) have an off season. His playoffs were bad, but I certainly didn't see that coming, and with that and the Peters thing it just doesn't seem like this was their year.

I really hope they don't expend assets to add, that makes little sense to me. A lot of teams do it though, so if they jump on that bandwagon I hope it's 4th rounders and less and not top 90 picks.

I guess my hope is a hockey trade that starts work on next year, alters the chemistry right now, and then this new formed "room" goes on a ripper and saves the season.

Will be interesting to see how the next 24 hours go.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

They have absolutely done it to themselves.

They went into this season with 2 of their top 4 defenders as pending UFAs. One of those guys has missed 10 or more games in 7 of his 10 career seasons, specifically because of the way he plays hockey. The other guy will be chasing is big UFA payday that the Flames can't really afford if they hope to address up front scoring.

So, going into this year, everyone on this message board knew that the Flames would have to deal at least one of those guys.

And now it's February and neither guy has been dealt and the guy who consistently gets injured is injured...

I'm an idiot at a keyboard, this isn't rocket science.

So, do you believe none of this hasn't occurred to Treliving/hockey ops? You don't think they haven't weighed their options? I find that hard to believe. They're not fools just running amuck.

You passing judgment on something you don't really know enough about. The fact of the matter is after the Kadri deal fell through, you, nor I, know what offers or discussions were had regarding Brodie or Hamonic. we don't know if Treliving was receiving garbage offers, if other GMs wanted to see how their team started the year, or if the Flames wanted to wait and see how things turned out. There are likely a multitude of reasons they are where they are.

Your criticism is a little out of line. At least wait until the situation resolves itself, the deadline hasn't passed yet.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm not all that interested in a Trelving debate for the 110th time.

I'm absolutely fine with those that think he's a poor GM, needs to be replaced or just want change. All good for me.

What I don't see happening is selling ... the team is too close and even the least meddling ownership group is unlikely to want to just give up the season for their season ticket holder base. I think it would be amazing if that wasn't the case as I'd be looking to move parts if the prices run up and then retool in the summer.

The season has just not worked out, and the backbone of that has had their engine (Gaudreau) have an off season. His playoffs were bad, but I certainly didn't see that coming, and with that and the Peters thing it just doesn't seem like this was their year.

I really hope they don't expend assets to add, that makes little sense to me. A lot of teams do it though, so if they jump on that bandwagon I hope it's 4th rounders and less and not top 90 picks.

I guess my hope is a hockey trade that starts work on next year, alters the chemistry right now, and then this new formed "room" goes on a ripper and saves the season.

Will be interesting to see how the next 24 hours go.

Pretty much exactly where I am at.

Its why, IMO, its not imperative to hang on to Brodie for a run that may never come. If it does, great but if not you at least have something to show for him walking and hopefully that asset is a piece for the future or a piece tha helps you fill what you need in the future.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Bingo

What I don't see happening is selling ... the team is too close and even the least meddling ownership group is unlikely to want to just give up the season for their season ticket holder base.

I think it would be amazing if that wasn't the case as I'd be looking to move parts if the prices run up and then retool in the summer..

Agreed, I don't believe they will sell assets tomorrow...

I would bet the Flames will try to make a hockey trade.... not sure how likely that is....

Flames in my view will be forced to mix up the core this summer in my opinion

This team especially Gaudreau has struggled since the all star break of 2019,

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Clearly the process was losing both of them for nothing and recouping no assets for either of them. We have to trust the process. What would you rather have, a GM who is reactionary and makes moves based on the standings and the likelihood of his team contending for the Stanley Cup? What will the players think if he just gives up on a 10th place team? Fans need to think these things through, thankfully there is a management team trying to build a winner for the next 5-10 years and is not just focused on the next 20 games. Do you think that Tkachuk will just forget what happened at this trade deadline in 40 months when he is a UFA? Fat chance, a trade for the future now will literally destroy this franchise. I am old enough to remember when the Bruins blew up their team in 2015 and missed the playoffs in 2016. Their veterans never forgave the franchise for what Sweeney did.

The Flames "management" has now been doing that for 30 years or so, without any sign of long-term success. Might that say something about the direction from "ownership"...which controls "management"?

As a Flames fan since 1981 I think I can finally say I'm fed up with this crap management. It's always "win now"...yet they don't, time after time. (OK - once. And once close -- "It was in".). That's it. IN ALMOST FOUR DECADES.

If this were a public company on the markets, it would be trading in the $ .02 range....or would long ago have folded or be bought out. There is simply NO evidence of a long-term vision - or even a medium-term one. There certainly is no evidence at the moment of anything other than grinding out profit for the expatriate majority owner.

[Bourque's Twin]

Tre is trying to make a hockey trade. He’s not adding rentals like Wayne Simmonds but I also don’t think he’s trading Johnny for 3 1st round picks. If he makes a trade this deadline it’s to improve the team for the next several years not just the remainder of the season.

[powderjunkie]

It just seems like simple game theory to me...the odds of a particularly positive short-term outcome seem pretty darn low, regardless of the path taken.

Miss playoffs: at least it would mean a higher draft pick (and slim chance in lottery), and remove any doubt that the team needs serious changes. Injuries are not a valid excuse - this team had been incredibly lucky until now.

Out in 4-5 games:basically the same as above with worse draft pick; though one might argue it is even more demoralizing than missing altogether. Playoff $$$$. Perhaps the very worst outcome.

Out in 6-7: Playoff $$$. Perhaps a little more data on what the problems are in the most critical times.

Win a round or two: Many permutations here depending on how the story ends, but this introduces the risk of illusion/masking the true issues, or making it harder to gain ownership approval for big changes. Also possible that it helps [slightly] increase value of players to be traded out.

Cinderella Run: Fun, but scary...can you still re-tool the core in the off-season?

Trading Brodie certainly changes the odds of each possible outcome, but I'm not convinced it really changes the odds of any outcome by more than ~10-15% (especially the cinderella run, which is <1% no matter what happens tomorrow IMO).

Get the asset and move on. We need an RD next year. If that can be solved tomorrow, great. If not...I guess we'll just see more of ol' Yelesin.

[tkflames]

Starting to think that the best move the flames can make is trade for laviolette or gallant.

Give them 20 games to get used to the players and have a productive off season. If we get lucky we get another new coach bounce.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by tkflames

Starting to think that the best move the flames can make is trade for laviolette or gallant.

Give them 20 games to get used to the players and have a productive off season. If we get lucky we get another new coach bounce.

It assumes they want to come here
There have been reports that Laviolette doesn’t want to come to Canada and Gallant is Detroit bound

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm not all that interested in a Trelving debate for the 110th time.

I'm absolutely fine with those that think he's a poor GM, needs to be replaced or just want change. All good for me.

What I don't see happening is selling ... the team is too close and even the least meddling ownership group is unlikely to want to just give up the season for their season ticket holder base. I think it would be amazing if that wasn't the case as I'd be looking to move parts if the prices run up and then retool in the summer.

The season has just not worked out, and the backbone of that has had their engine (Gaudreau) have an off season. His playoffs were bad, but I certainly didn't see that coming, and with that and the Peters thing it just doesn't seem like this was their year.

I really hope they don't expend assets to add, that makes little sense to me. A lot of teams do it though, so if they jump on that bandwagon I hope it's 4th rounders and less and not top 90 picks.

I guess my hope is a hockey trade that starts work on next year, alters the chemistry right now, and then this new formed "room" goes on a ripper and saves the season.

Will be interesting to see how the next 24 hours go.

Thing is, Brodie is essentially a rental now, isn’t he? Is he the right rental for this team? I have no idea where things stand as far as him re-signing but I have yet to hear anything encouraging. Renting him definitely costs more than a 4th rounder.

Maybe you deal for him as much as you can get independent of all other considerations and still focus on improving the team before the deadline. The clock is ticking though for sure.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It assumes they want to come here
There have been reports that Laviolette doesn’t want to come to Canada and Gallant is Detroit bound

I have seen posters speculate on these things. Are there actually reports?

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by tkflames

Starting to think that the best move the flames can make is trade for laviolette or gallant.

Give them 20 games to get used to the players and have a productive off season. If we get lucky we get another new coach bounce.

It gets them into the playoffs for sure because of that typical new coach bump in play.

If the owners want playoff revenue that badly, upgrade the coach over buying a big name rental.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Tre is trying to make a hockey trade. He’s not adding rentals like Wayne Simmonds but I also don’t think he’s trading Johnny for 3 1st round picks. If he makes a trade this deadline it’s to improve the team for the next several years not just the remainder of the season.

Which IMO is the best case scenario and savviest thing to do here

But only IF he gets something done. "Almost" does nothing for us, like the last two attempts.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

When you look at how Las Vegas played things, it's a great example of how you can improve your club in the immediate term by focusing on the long term.

Vegas has done this the last two years while the flames have done the opposite.

Last season rather than give James Neal a massive contract they let Calgary outbid them and then just left the cap space open. At the deadline, Calgary had to move out significant cap to do a deal whereas Vegas could add Mark stone without skipping a beat. They positioned themselves for the future by a avoiding the temptations of the now and walked away with Mark Stone.

Last summer, facing a cap crunch, Vegas moved out Miller and Gusev, a player they couldn't sign. They moved both players purely for draft picks, draft picks being the transitional currency of the league. This allowed them to keep the players they wanted and allowed them to accumulate the Cap necessary to make deadline acquisitions for need. The currency they acquired in July was what they've spent in February and they have addressed the vacancy they created in moving Miller by adding Martinez, which is an upgrade at the position.

The Flames by contrast made no such deals, and were forced to bridge Tkachuk. That is a bad move dictated by a lack of cap space. So by making a short term decision they lost out on two long term assets: signing tkachuk to term as well as transitional currency of picks. Obviously keeping frolik for half a year was a meaningless endeavour, but the time value of not having that space was lost.

Now, the flames don't have the transitional currency available to address their weaknesses, arguably their best player is set up to leave to free agency at his first opportunity, and the value of a trade for their quickly depreciating assets appears to be deteriorating.

These are foreseen consequences between good management and bad.

Giving them credit for not signing Neal is a huge stretch. It's not like they didn't want to sign him - they were the 2nd highest bidders. If Calgary doesn't offer the 5th year, Neal (likely) signs with Vegas and your entire argument is invalid. Had Neal signed with them, no Mark Stone.

[Toonage]

All this recent talk of Barrie & the Canucks making me think they're just trying to drive the price up on the Flames.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Toonage

All this recent talk of Barrie & the Canucks making me think they're just trying to drive the price up on the Flames.

Dim Jim isn't bright enough for that.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It assumes they want to come here
There have been reports that Laviolette doesn’t want to come to Canada and Gallant is Detroit bound

I know it’s never as simple as this, but I hope the Flames would be willing to outbid the competition, put in a significant premium for coaching in Calgary. They’ve spent too many years with poor coaching - Treliving has to nail this next hire. I hope he does.