Coaching, leadership and a top 5 list

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Size is like a killer slap shot or one timer.

Having it is great. Being able to use it effectively in an NHL game is amazing and rare.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Calgary doesn’t need bigger forwards, or even faster forwards. What they need are guys who want too win more IMO.

This. Each and every game.

Curiously, this is what I saw in VGK their first year. Heart. Tons of it. Willingness to "do what it takes".

I think that last year's loss in the POs took the heart out of a lot of them. They ran up a zillion points, had a great time, ended high in standings and then....THEY FELL FLAT ON THEIR FACES.

This took a toll. With little change and arguably some negative changes....why would they care? Management obviously doesn't... (their thinking?). So they just ....play, and cash their cheques, hoping to not get hurt.

Too little heart for too many of them.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Red

Tre's team is hopeless in the playoffs. Doesn't matter how he got there, good trades, bad trades, good and bad RFA deals and bad UFA ones, ultimately you take time to build something that will give you results.
No team is ever really finished building. But it's safe to say that after 6 years this should be close to what Tre envisioned as a good team. It's on him that he built a team full of soft and undersized players. He took the "new NHL is fast and skilled size be damned" too literally and too early. 2-12 in the last playoff 3 series and looked terrible in the process.

Heard on the Fan that Tre loves big players. Was shocked to hear that because he keeps bringing small guys like Foo, Czarnik, Mangi, Dube, Ryan etc. With Johnny on the team there is no room for more small forwards.

I like Tre as a person. Good guy, seems smart and focused, but I feel his thoughts on how the game is right now are incorrect. His results prove that Sutter was a much better GM.
I know Sutter had his issues, but his teams were competitive in a much stronger West and actually won some playoff games. No freebies.

With a contract extension we are almost guaranteed to see a few more years of Tre. I have no problem with it, but I hope he is starting to "get it". You need balls to win in the playoffs. Get guys with balls and heart, no more 5.6" speed/skill projects.

I can't get there about blaming this on Tre. I actually think the team is well constructed.

It's not Tre's fault that (1) the team can't rise to the occasion and (2) the entire team is having an off year, with Johnny leading the way from all-star to replacement level quality play.

The only thing I blame on Tre is that the coaching has been terrible. The two issues above aren't GM issues, they are coaching issues. First Gully was a disaster. Then, after firing gully and admitting the team was fragile, he hired Peters (an unknown commodity)...who while better, was also unable to coach in the playoffs.

Like ####...just hire a real coach.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

This. Each and every game.

Curiously, this is what I saw in VGK their first year. Heart. Tons of it. Willingness to "do what it takes".

I think that last year's loss in the POs took the heart out of a lot of them. They ran up a zillion points, had a great time, ended high in standings and then....THEY FELL FLAT ON THEIR FACES.

This took a toll. With little change and arguably some negative changes....why would they care? Management obviously doesn't... (their thinking?). So they just ....play, and cash their cheques, hoping to not get hurt.

Too little heart for too many of them.

Yep very mentally fragile team. They need more hate to lose mentality for sure.

[Red]

I beg to differ. To me the Flames are too small. Skill is needed too, but Johnnys, Mangis and Ryans of the world will only get you so far. You guys enjoy your one playoff win, if they make it.

[Dr. Doom]

Originally Posted by Red

I beg to differ. To me the Flames are too small. Skill is needed too, but Johnnys, Mangis and Ryans of the world will only get you so far. You guys enjoy your one playoff win, if they make it.

This!

If you remember before last playoffs everyone was saying how the NHL had changed and smaller skilled forwards was where it was at...

Well we all know how the first round of the playoffs went across both conferences.

All comes back to size. And the size this team does have is low skill.

Problem is retooling this team towards that pretty much has to come from the draft because a guy like Gaudreau for example wont even land you a skilled power forward.

The Bennett thing really hampered the overall plan tbh.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

This!

If you remember before last playoffs everyone was saying how the NHL had changed and smaller skilled forwards was where it was at...

Well we all know how the first round of the playoffs went across both conferences.

All comes back to size. And the size this team does have is low skill.

Problem is retooling this team towards that pretty much has to come from the draft because a guy like Gaudreau for example wont even land you a skilled power forward.

The Bennett thing really hampered the overall plan tbh.

Lots of people here believe it was lack of speed and skill. Strange thing to say about a team that built an identity of a fast skill team. One that scored 2nd most goals and were 2nd overall in the standings after 82 games.

I guess its easy to see why one would form that opinion. Colorado forwards were flying in to our zone and cycled for extended time so they must have been more skilled, right?

Meanwhile we overlook how the Flames D were getting pushed around allowing those Colorado players do whatever they want.
We overlook how our forwards would rather stay on the boards than try and penetrate the slot and get hit by Cole or Big Z.
They would rather get rid of the puck in panic, than take a hit and make a play. Those turnovers made Colorado look faster, as turnovers always do.

Our toughest top 6 forward, Tkachuk was hit hard by Big Z early on and that was it for him. Our top scorers, Johnny and Monahan skated on the perimeter with their heads on a swivel while theirs went to the net untouched and scored goals.

Easy to look skilled when you don't have to worry about being touched.

Anyways, that's my take until the team actually does some playoff damage.

[Erick Estrada]

If an NHL team has ample skill and desire the sky's the limit. Whether the roster is a mix of small and big, young and old, fast and slow it matters not as long as they have enough skill and the desire to do what it takes to win on a nightly basis. Flames have the former but not the latter which is where we are today. As we saw in 2004 you don't even need to have the most skill as long as you have the most desire as that team was willing to do everything it took to win. I haven't seen a Flames team with less desire to win than this one since the 2007 Playfair team that got embarrassed in the playoffs which is why it's so hard to cheer for these guys this season. Nothing worse than being invested in professional athletes that are just punching the clock on a lot of nights.

[Toonage]

At its core has the game really changed that much?

Play fast.

You want to win, play fast. You don't have to be a giant, or pint size or even the fastest skater. Playing fast is thinking fast and moving the puck fast and getting your shot off fast.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

This. Each and every game.

Curiously, this is what I saw in VGK their first year. Heart. Tons of it. Willingness to "do what it takes".

I think that last year's loss in the POs took the heart out of a lot of them. They ran up a zillion points, had a great time, ended high in standings and then....THEY FELL FLAT ON THEIR FACES.

This took a toll. With little change and arguably some negative changes....why would they care? Management obviously doesn't... (their thinking?). So they just ....play, and cash their cheques, hoping to not get hurt.

Too little heart for too many of them.

how do you explain the teams play after the all star break, then?
there were warning signs before the playoffs.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

how do you explain the teams play after the all star break, then?
there were warning signs before the playoffs.

There were individuals who really saw their game fall off at that point, but the team itself went 17-12-2 after Feb. 1 last year.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by transplant99

There were individuals who really saw their game fall off at that point, but the team itself went 17-12-2 after Feb. 1 last year.

Goaltending somewhat leveled off from the highs and lows earlier and depth players like Ryan stepped up their game helping offset some of the decline of the first line. More importantly team defense was still very solid. This season team defense has dropped off a lot over last season as Gio isn't a Norris quality defender and the 2nd pairing has fallen off a cliff.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Goaltending somewhat leveled off from the highs and lows earlier and depth players like Ryan stepped up their game helping offset some of the decline of the first line. More importantly team defense was still very solid. This season team defense has dropped off a lot over last season as Gio isn't a Norris quality defender and the 2nd pairing has fallen off a cliff.

This is, in my opinion, the most glaring problem with this season, and it is predominantly a coaching issue. I think Peters was a good coach who got excellent results for a time, but then fairly quickly lost the ear of his players amid a poor playoff performance. Geoff Ward seems pretty clearly to be ill suited for the job, and I think the fact that he still retains the "interim" moniker is an indication of this. I expect a new coach will be added in the summer, as while there are a couple of currently unemployed quality NHL coaches out there, I don't think they are necessarily available today.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This is, in my opinion, the most glaring problem with this season, and it is predominantly a coaching issue. I think Peters was a good coach who got excellent results for a time, but then fairly quickly lost the ear of his players amid a poor playoff performance. Geoff Ward seems pretty clearly to be ill suited for the job, and I think the fact that he still retains the "interim" moniker is an indication of this. I expect a new coach will be added in the summer, as while there are a couple of currently unemployed quality NHL coaches out there, I don't think they are necessarily available today.

I agree with this. I like Ward but it's been evident that he's not as detail oriented as Peters as the team has been playing loose hockey. There's been some regression in team defense since he took over. Maybe that's a byproduct of trying to get the offense going but we aren't talking about miscues in the transition game as they are a mess at times in their own zone.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I agree with this. I like Ward but it's been evident that he's not as detail oriented as Peters as the team has been playing loose hockey. There's been some major regression in team defense since he took over. Maybe that's a byproduct of trying to get the offense going but we aren't talking about miscues in the transition game as they are a mess at times in their own zone.

I think the decline was before Peters left. It's funny though, wasn't ward the D coach?

[Toonage]

^ Huska was/is D coach

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think the decline was before Peters left. It's funny though, wasn't ward the D coach?

Under Peters this year the Flames were 7th in SAT% @ 51.8. Since Ward took over behind the bench they have dropped to 16th @ 49.0. The difference is that the Flames spent a lot more time in the offensive zone when Peters was coaching. I think they are playing a much more conservative game under Ward, which just does not suit them—way too much time spent passively anticipating plays from the opposing team. It is more deliberative, and like Estrada said, it doesn't show the same attention to detail.

Also, for whatever reason, there seem to be an inordinately high number of shots that miss the net completely when the Flames players do actually get them off. I'm not sure what that's about but it's a huge problem.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Under Peters this year the Flames were 7th in SAT% @ 51.8. Since Ward took over behind the bench they have dropped to 16th @ 49.0. The difference is that the Flames spent a lot more time in the offensive zone when Peters was coaching. I think they are playing a much more conservative game under Ward, which just does not suit them—way too much time spent passively anticipating plays from the opposing team. It is more deliberative, and like Estrada said, it doesn't show the same attention to detail.

Also, for whatever reason, there seem to be an inordinately high number of shots that miss the net completely when the Flames players do actually get them off. I'm not sure what that's about but it's a huge problem.

This definitely supports the eye test. They weren't any better defensively last year but I felt like their time in the offensive zone was a lot higher and the best defense is to keep the puck in the other teams zone so this supports that. This year they are hemmed in regularly, breakouts aren't as crisp and the cycles are getting broken up far easier. They spend far more time in their zone. They seem to get less odd man rushes as well and get behind the opposing D far less than I remember the season before as well.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Psytic

This definitely supports the eye test. They weren't any better defensively last year but I felt like their time in the offensive zone was a lot higher and the best defense is to keep the puck in the other teams zone so this supports that...

The Flames were actually WAY better defensively last year, leading the League by a considerable margin in shots and shot-attempts allowed. They were 9th in goals allowed despite having a bottom-ten ranked team save percentage. That only happens with an excellent defense. It is considerably different right now, not just in the offensive zone.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The Flames were actually WAY better defensively last year, leading the League by a considerable margin in shots and shot-attempts allowed. They were 9th in goals allowed despite having a bottom-ten ranked team save percentage. That only happens with an excellent defense. It is considerably different right now, not just in the offensive zone.

But this was due to more zone time in the offensive end ie good offence is a good defense. I think i'm saying the same thing in a different way aren't I? We didn't lead the league in shot suppression/ blocked shots did we? (I don't know I haven't looked just going by the eye test from last year).