[PGT] Oilers 8 Flames 3 everything is fine

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

The bottom line is this doesn't need to be a fault finding exercise. The Flames need different players AND an upgraded coach. The team needs the GM to make the correct moves.

Coaching is the most significant upgrade they can make without having to trade anyone. Treliving has caused this build of the Flames to have questions marks for far longer than it should. Get the elite coach and start trimming your roster from there.

Giving the benefit of the doubt to Gulutzan and Peters is dumb, they've won precisely nothing in the NHL playoffs.

I am for sure not saying the coaching can't be upgraded. I don't see it happening this season though. And I also agree its the easiest change to make. That said, it's a bit of a cop out and a cave in tho underperforming POs. GG and Peters didn't win in the POs, true. But they each got them to the POs, Peters with a very good record (largely built on early returns which IMO suggests that players backslid like I suggested).

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ and the contrary argument is that the clearer the coach’s fingerprint, the less successful he has been

Players are better with the clean slate and left partially to their own devices than with a bad coach

[Toonage]

I'm in agreement with the idea that this team could use both a substantial change in personnel as well as an established coach

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I'm in agreement with the idea that this team could use both a substantial change in personnel as well as an established coach

I think there will be a change in coach. I just don't think it will be in-season. I think Treliving wants to take his time this time around, plus Ward's record hasn't been bad enough to force the issue. I suppose it's also possible that there's been some calls to Laviolette but he wasn't interested in coaching this year.

Aside from that there hasn't been a no-brainer coach available and I include Gallant and Babcock in that.

[Stanley]

Say what you want about Looch but ffs does Johnny need to go back to training on a backyard rink and learn how to elevate the f'in puck?! My lord...

[TheIronMaiden]

Am I the only one who is not that worked up about the last loss?

Of course I hate to see the Flames get blown out. That said, I would take winning 3/4 games against Edmonton every year.

The Flames are 6-3-1 in their last ten, (7-3-1 in January) and they are still in the thick of a playoff run, with most of their more difficult match ups behind them.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Am I the only one who is not that worked up about the last loss?

Of course I hate to see the Flames get blown out. That said, I would take winning 3/4 games against Edmonton every year.

The Flames are 6-3-1 in their last ten, (7-3-1 in January) and they are still in the thick of a playoff run, with most of their more difficult match ups behind them.

You can't win them all so losing I can accept. However I have an issue with this team taking so many nights off this season. Their last three regulation losses to Montreal, Ottawa, and Edmonton (all very beatable teams) were basically over after the opening puck drop as the team wasn't prepared to do what it was going to take to win those games. Way too many shutouts where they have gone down quietly and blowout losses. That -17 goal differential didn't happen by accident as when they lose they lose bad most nights which IMO shows a lack of professionalism.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You can't win them all so losing I can accept. However I have an issue with this team taking so many nights off this season. Their last three regulation losses to Montreal, Ottawa, and Edmonton (all very beatable teams) were basically over after the opening puck drop as the team wasn't prepared to do what it was going to take to win those games. Way too many shutouts where they have gone down quietly and blowout losses. That -17 goal differential didn't happen by accident as when they lose they lose bad most nights which IMO shows a lack of professionalism.

To be clear, I am not condemning fans who are upset. This has been at moments a very upsetting season. That said, I am more frustrated by losing to the Kings a bunch, then I am about dropping that game on Saturday.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Am I the only one who is not that worked up about the last loss?

Of course I hate to see the Flames get blown out. That said, I would take winning 3/4 games against Edmonton every year.

The Flames are 6-3-1 in their last ten, (7-3-1 in January) and they are still in the thick of a playoff run, with most of their more difficult match ups behind them.

To me it's not so much about the wins and losses, it's about how they've done both. Similar to the playoffs last year, I was never upset about getting eliminated because that's sports, you win and lose depending on who is better that day.

It's how they lose is what bothers me more as they flop with no heart and no fight. On the other side when they win, I never feel they win in convincing fashion. So we're a team who squeaks out victories and gets their a$$es handed when losing, this shows me that they aren't a team that can win a championship.

Not sure who watches MMA for this analogy but it's like we only win with decisions but always lose by getting knocked the F out.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Am I the only one who is not that worked up about the last loss?

Of course I hate to see the Flames get blown out. That said, I would take winning 3/4 games against Edmonton every year.

The Flames are 6-3-1 in their last ten, (7-3-1 in January) and they are still in the thick of a playoff run, with most of their more difficult match ups behind them.

I think its about how they lost. I was at the game on Saturday and the Oilers players just wanted it more they were hungry. If the Flames came to play and it was close I wouldn't even care.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

I'm all for not overreacting after a bad game, but can we at least acknowledge that we have FIFTEEN (15) regulation wins in 53 games played this season?

What's the excuse for that? We are all sorts of lousy this season and only have a chance at a playoff spot because of a crappy division.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's possible that the early Lucic we saw as simply what he has left in the tank after a summer of rest and the excitement/anxiety of joining a new team. The way he's playing now where he can't complete a simple pass to save his life is exactly the way he looked for the Oilers last season. He's really not that important to the overall success of the team that you would have him in the lineup if he was hurting to the point where he can't even throw a punch or grab a guy. If he's hurt that much I would hope the coach is smart enough to rest him in the press box.

Possible.

But then you'd think he's get a slight step back with the all star break, not lose another one.

If the reason he wasn't involved is either not wanting to, or not wanting to with former teammates ... I'm as pissed as anyone. But since a lot is eroding I wonder if there's something else going on.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

I'm all for not overreacting after a bad game, but can we at least acknowledge that we have FIFTEEN (15) regulation wins in 53 games played this season?

What's the excuse for that? We are all sorts of lousy this season and only have a chance at a playoff spot because of a crappy division.

Yep and their -17 goal differential is 12th in the West. The team's placement in the standings flatters them.

That said, this team does have talent and despite all the crappy play they could still win the division.

The GM needs to do something to help. Or pack it in and give up for the season.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yep and their -17 goal differential is 12th in the West. The team's placement in the standings flatters them.

That said, this team does have talent and despite all the crappy play they could still win the division.

The GM needs to do something to help. Or pack it in and give up for the season.

IMO, please pack it in. This team/core cannot get it done, they couldn't get it done last year after an abnormally off the charts with everyone having career seasons (minus Neal) year. It certainly is not happening this year, it's time to call a spade a spade.

Be aggressive for the opposite reason for a change and sell assets for the future.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Am I the only one who is not that worked up about the last loss?

Of course I hate to see the Flames get blown out. That said, I would take winning 3/4 games against Edmonton every year.

The Flames are 6-3-1 in their last ten, (7-3-1 in January) and they are still in the thick of a playoff run, with most of their more difficult match ups behind them.

The individual loss isn't that bad. I don't even mind a blowout, though it stings a bit to that crew. Though I can write off a blowout to the Oil because it's happened before but the Flames still wound up being the better team at the end of the year.

I do agree though that the Flames just seem off this year and that's a bigger concern. They are playing a lot like GG's second year. The GAF meter is low. The fact they turned it on against Toronto, St. Louis and the previous Oiler games tells me the players need an attitude adjustment.

It could be that they are waiting for a big move by Treliving and that will motivate them.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The individual loss isn't that bad. I don't even mind a blowout, though it stings a bit to that crew. Though I can write off a blowout to the Oil because it's happened before but the Flames still wound up being the better team at the end of the year.

I do agree though that the Flames just seem off this year and that's a bigger concern. They are playing a lot like GG's second year. The GAF meter is low. The fact they turned it on against Toronto, St. Louis and the previous Oiler games tells me the players need an attitude adjustment.

It could be that they are waiting for a big move by Treliving and that will motivate them.

I think it's worse than that.

I think they do GAF, but sadly they just don't have the mental strength to manage a game where the opposition takes control or makes a push. They wilt.

Fear of losing? Fear of getting embarrassed? I honestly don't know but they're weak.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think it's worse than that.

I think they do GAF, but sadly they just don't have the mental strength to manage a game where the opposition takes control or makes a push. They wilt.

Fear of losing? Fear of getting embarrassed? I honestly don't know but they're weak.

Agree with this but then they also no show some games, where you can't even say it was the opponent that put them on their heels.

I have no doubt they care. But in the bigs, it's results that matter.

15 regulation wins.

A lot of coaches and leaders believe that preparation is the key to dealing with unexpected challenges. To me that's on everyone. Coaches, leaders and the individual players.

[N-E-B]

Why are people surprised that Lucic didn’t fight? Who on Edmonton is going to fight him? Kassian? Nurse? They’re two of the fakest tough guys in the league who go after guys that are clearly a step below them and beat on them, but they’d never fight someone they know could beat them.

Lucic is what he is, a highly overpaid 4th liner who would be healthy scratched every few games if it weren’t for his contract, but he doesn’t strike me as the type of guy to not fight because he loves his opponents. That’s just fans overreacting to everything. I can guarantee you if someone on Edmonton challenged him or accepted his challenge he would have fought them.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Why are people surprised that Lucic didn’t fight? Who on Edmonton is going to fight him? Kassian? Nurse? They’re two of the fakest tough guys in the league who go after guys that are clearly a step below them and beat on them, but they’d never fight someone they know could beat them.

Lucic is what he is, a highly overpaid 4th liner who would be healthy scratched every few games if it weren’t for his contract, but he doesn’t strike me as the type of guy to not fight because he loves his opponents. That’s just fans overreacting to everything. I can guarantee you if someone on Edmonton challenged him or accepted his challenge he would have fought them.

I'd be willing to give him that benefit of doubt if I saw him stirring it up more, and having the opposition turn away not wanting to go.

But we didn't see any guys getting yanked out of scrums, no face washes, nothing.

He's either not interested in fighting. Not wanting to fight ex teammates. Or hurt.

[Flash Walken]

The argument with Lucic compared to Neal was that at least if Lucic isn't scoring, he can contribute in other ways, whereas Neal can't.

Well, this year Neal is scoring and Lucic isn't bringing anything at all, so it's been quite a downgrade.

Unfortunately the Flames got the Oiler version of Lucic and the Oilers got the Vegas version of Neal and the Flames never got a good version of either player and now they are stuck with him.

Is he hurt or is he just the same player he's been for 3 years now? Or has he been hurt for the last 3 years and this trade is even worse than it appears?

Is he hurt or is he the same guy who scored 6 goals in 79 games last season?

My money is on him just being a sucky hockey player now.