Spoilers allowed - Star Wars Episode IX

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by nik-

They won't age well at all because they're generic JJ Abrams actionfests with no story.

Get him and Kennedy away from the franchise

JJ Abrams is an overrated director IMO. He's not terrible but he's a real poor-man's Spielberg as his big budget movies have the action bells and whistles but seem to lack that ageless storytelling quality that Spielberg was a master of incorporating.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

JJ Abrams is an overrated director IMO. He's not terrible but he's a real poor-man's Spielberg as his big budget movies have the action bells and whistles but seem to lack that ageless storytelling quality that Spielberg was a master of incorporating.

Can JJ die in a lens flare?

'The Great Lens Fire of ought 20?'

"I dont know what happened Officer, its an enormous warehouse that manufactures camera lenses and it just.....flared up....and inexplicably JJ just ran in there to save them while screaming like a lunatic wearing hideous glasses...."

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Locke

Can JJ die in a lens flare?

'The Great Lens Fire of ought 20?'

"I dont know what happened Officer, its an enormous warehouse that manufactures camera lenses and it just.....flared up....and inexplicably JJ just ran in there to save them while screaming like a lunatic wearing hideous glasses...."

you're doing this lens flare "joke" in 2 different threads now. complaints about this were maybe amusing for little while like 10 years ago. there are many better ways to articulate your disdain for JJ that don't involve dredging this up every time.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

you're doing this lens flare "joke" in 2 different threads now. complaints about this were maybe amusing for little while like 10 years ago. there are many better ways to articulate your disdain for JJ that don't involve dredging this up every time.

Typical pro-flareist!

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

JJ Abrams is an overrated director IMO. He's not terrible but he's a real poor-man's Spielberg as his big budget movies have the action bells and whistles but seem to lack that ageless storytelling quality that Spielberg was a master of incorporating.

MI3 and Star Trek were both great. He did a great job of breathing life into a pair floundering franchises. His problem seems to be that his range is so limited.

His new movies feel like that episode of the Simpsons where Marge keeps re-tailoring her expensive suit into other suits.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by blankall

MI3 and Star Trek were both great. He did a great job of breathing life into a pair floundering franchises. His problem seems to be that his range is so limited.

His new movies feel like that episode of the Simpsons where Marge keeps re-tailoring her expensive suit into other suits.

maybe this was the idea all along. get JJ to direct the first movie because he's really good at injecting new energy into things, but then hand it off before he inevitably fumbles it. Star Wars screwed up by doing the hand-off to that jerk kid who intentionally screws up the message during telephone game. Star Trek screwed up by not immediately picking a JJ successor. it's a delicate balance when you hire him as the fixer.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

maybe this was the idea all along. get JJ to direct the first movie because he's really good at injecting new energy into things, but then hand it off before he inevitably fumbles it. Star Wars screwed up by doing the hand-off to that jerk kid who intentionally screws up the message during telephone game. Star Trek screwed up by not immediately picking a JJ successor. it's a delicate balance when you hire him as the fixer.

JJ directs Force Awakens, then mail a blank check to Speilberg with Kathleen Kennedy's signature on it and a smiley face to do Ep 8 & 9. Send a separate blank check to Lawrence Kasdan to write the script. Filoni and Favreau as consultants.

It's actually not that hard to make a good trilogy.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

maybe this was the idea all along. get JJ to direct the first movie because he's really good at injecting new energy into things, but then hand it off before he inevitably fumbles it. Star Wars screwed up by doing the hand-off to that jerk kid who intentionally screws up the message during telephone game. Star Trek screwed up by not immediately picking a JJ successor. it's a delicate balance when you hire him as the fixer.

I still object to the idea that the last Jedi screwed up Star Wars.

It nailed the Lore and it nailed the failure of the Jedi as a religion. Reading Treverrows treatment for IX wild have continued this Jedi as failed religion new path required and moved the story forward.

I realize that some people wanted the happy ending and the idea that Luke would be a flawed Jedi is not palatable but if Luke wasn’t flawed then this Trilogy did not need to exist.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by GGG

I still object to the idea that the last Jedi screwed up Star Wars.

It nailed the Lore and it nailed the failure of the Jedi as a religion. Reading Treverrows treatment for IX wild have continued this Jedi as failed religion new path required and moved the story forward.

I realize that some people wanted the happy ending and the idea that Luke would be a flawed Jedi is not palatable but if Luke wasn’t flawed then this Trilogy did not need to exist.

if they wanted Rian to go explore new perspectives on the lore, his own separate movie(s) would have been a perfect place for that. not in the middle of an already established trilogy that was specifically designed to be safe and familiar. he left no path back to what TFA started, so JJ just said eff it and tried to cram an entire new trilogy into TROS, along with all the TLJ retcons.

attempting something new with the SW universe is ok. playing Mad Libs inside of a single storyline is not.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

if they wanted Rian to go explore new perspectives on the lore, his own separate movie(s) would have been a perfect place for that. not in the middle of an already established trilogy that was specifically designed to be safe and familiar. he left no path back to what TFA started, so JJ just said eff it and tried to cram an entire new trilogy into TROS, along with all the TLJ retcons.

attempting something new with the SW universe is ok. playing Mad Libs inside of a single storyline is not.

He didn’t go off on his own though in the last Jedi. He took JJs key points and moved the story forward. Luke a hermit on an island with the only explanation being his failure with Kylo and the Rey/Ren relationship. The who is Rey and who is Snoke was fandom created and doesn’t really exist in TFA on its own.

TFA created the first order, and Rey, and Kylo and 30 seconds of classic JJ mystery box garbage. That isn’t world building.

[CaptainCrunch]

Like I said before, I didn't mind the Rise of Skywalker, but it just felt that a lot of elements of the earlier movies were disconnected and this movie felt like a bunch of it was to fix the corner that TLJ jammed them into.


To be honest while I really loved that Ian was back, and Palpatine is one of my favorite characters from the OT and PT. It felt like he was jammed in as the ultimate fan service and to ensure ticket sales from the more die hard elements of the fanbase who were disenfranchised by the last movie.


At the end of the day, a massive cult of the Sith Eternal goes against the Lore. The Sith don't believe in large followings, the rule of two protects the Sith Lord from weaker undeserving people combining their strength to over throw the Dark Lord of the Sith. The whole idea of Palpatine being all the Sith and using essence transfer to jump into Rey was rather strange, and a Sith would never say sacrifice me so you can have all the power. Giving power away is far from the Sith way. The expectation is that the Master has the power the apprentice covets it, and has to earn it by beating the master.



I just hated the way that they killed Palpatine with two light sabers crossed, it was unsatisfying. I was hoping for something more epic. This almost felt like JJ was running low on paper and his pen was running out of ink.


I did laugh at the fact that they pretty much Jar Jar'd poor Rose. The girl has been through hell since she got the role in TLJ, I almost felt sorry for her.


The other thing that kind of baffled me was at the end of TLJ nobody showed, the FO was too powerful nobody answered the call. Then Lando goes out and even though the Final Order is more powerful and lead by a evil emperor that has literally come back from the dead suddenly you see a fleet of thousands of ships, that would have probably overwhelmed the first order in TLJ. But Leia couldn't convince them but Lando could.


The question that I had after the movie was the whole palpatine paradox. I'm expecting that at some point we'll learn that the Palpatine that we saw in the movie was not the Palpatine from the OT and from the PT. It was a clone controlled by Palpatine from the Sith Temple. This Palpatine never fell down the well and bonked off of the reactor. It would also answer the question about Palpatine's appearance in the OT.



Just my two cents.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GGG

I still object to the idea that the last Jedi screwed up Star Wars.

It nailed the Lore and it nailed the failure of the Jedi as a religion. Reading Treverrows treatment for IX wild have continued this Jedi as failed religion new path required and moved the story forward.

I realize that some people wanted the happy ending and the idea that Luke would be a flawed Jedi is not palatable but if Luke wasn’t flawed then this Trilogy did not need to exist.

I really don't think he nailed the lore. He made up a bunch of stuff that was totally outside of the lore. New ships that were totally inefficient, running out of gas, hyperspace ramming, new force powers, force ghosts interacting with the real world, etc... These were all points that were key to his narrative, but totally inconsistent with established lore. Additionally, the tone was way off. For example, the bad guys walking around like monty python characters. This may have been the thing that bothers me the most about TLJ. The tone is just so far off any other installment, to the point of it feeling like a parody.

The future of the jedi religion? He just said it didn't exist anymore. What future? How is that even creative or well thought out?

[Fuzz]

I'd really like to know where Rian thought the next episode was going to go after his "setup".

[#-3]

Originally Posted by blankall

I really don't think he nailed the lore. He made up a bunch of stuff that was totally outside of the lore. New ships that were totally inefficient, running out of gas, hyperspace ramming, new force powers, force ghosts interacting with the real world, etc... These were all points that were key to his narrative, but totally inconsistent with established lore. Additionally, the tone was way off. For example, the bad guys walking around like monty python characters. This may have been the thing that bothers me the most about TLJ. The tone is just so far off any other installment, to the point of it feeling like a parody.

The future of the jedi religion? He just said it didn't exist anymore. What future? How is that even creative or well thought out?

I think there is a pretty long history in this series of adding powers and lore out of nowhere:
Force Healing
Midichlorians
Super Agility
Force Ghosts
Telepathically Projecting your physical across the galaxy
From the movie viewers prospective, all of this lore came out of nowhere in prior sequels, and was layered in over time. I don't see why adding lore in itself is a valid critique.

In terms a the crappy ships, I think it was a interesting commentary on the contrast between the prequels and the sequels. Clearly in the star wars galaxy any non-death star / non astrodroid technology has been in decline for a long time.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'd really like to know where Rian thought the next episode was going to go after his "setup".

I think he left the series with two really strong opposing characters and a blank slate. Great if you can do something with the blank slate. Terrible if you just say same old / same old.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by blankall

I really don't think he nailed the lore. He made up a bunch of stuff that was totally outside of the lore. New ships that were totally inefficient, running out of gas, hyperspace ramming, new force powers, force ghosts interacting with the real world, etc... These were all points that were key to his narrative, but totally inconsistent with established lore. Additionally, the tone was way off. For example, the bad guys walking around like monty python characters. This may have been the thing that bothers me the most about TLJ. The tone is just so far off any other installment, to the point of it feeling like a parody.

The future of the jedi religion? He just said it didn't exist anymore. What future? How is that even creative or well thought out?

I won’t defend the movie making choices like the cold open, the casino planet or the low speed chase. They were bad. But watching each one again LTJ is clearly better the ROS. Under any bit of scrutiny Star Wars Maguffin Hunt falls a part. At least LTJ try’s to do something it succeeds creating a compelling Kylo/Rey relationship. It succeeds at making Luke interesting. It succeeds at making the universe feel lived in. It also fails at many things. But to me it tried to be its own movie in Star Wars. JJs first nostalgia fest was entertaining but then he just did it again. Treverrow continuing on from where LTJ left off seems like it would have been better.

New force powers have been introduced in every movie. It went from a feeling that guided you, to chucking rocks and lifting space ships, to force lightning, to dreams that tell the future, to magic light savers that could pass messages to Force time, to the force Dias re-birth / super ship killing lightning. Critiquing last Jedi for “new” force powers is ridiculous.

Rian didn’t say that the Jedi religion didn’t exist anymore. The movie ends on Yoda saying she has everything she needs and Rey having the books. It’s set up for Rey to rebuild the order into something new that won’t cause endless cycles of suffering.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by #-3

I think he left the series with two really strong opposing characters and a blank slate. Great if you can do something with the blank slate. Terrible if you just say same old / same old.

one insanely powerful character on the good side and her whiny childish opponent that couldn't stop flip-flopping sides? and a blank (!) slate going into the concluding film of a trilogy? that's what we're calling a great setup?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

one insanely powerful character on the good side and her whiny childish opponent that couldn't stop flip-flopping sides? and a blank (!) slate going into the concluding film of a trilogy? that's what we're calling a great setup?

The best part of ROS is the Kylo / Rey relationship. They made it less powerful with the kiss at the end but it was the strongest part of the movie.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by GGG

The best part of ROS is the Kylo / Rey relationship. They made it less powerful with the kiss at the end but it was the strongest part of the movie.

it's the best part of the trilogy in general. but you still need a big baddie. the "both sides, many sides" thing, again RJ could have explored that somewhere else but this wasn't the place for it. that whole idea of the FO and Resistance being supplied by the same arms dealers, where was that supposed to go? even RJ didn't have any place to pursue that further and it was never brought up again.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Like I said before, I didn't mind the Rise of Skywalker, but it just felt that a lot of elements of the earlier movies were disconnected and this movie felt like a bunch of it was to fix the corner that TLJ jammed them into.


To be honest while I really loved that Ian was back, and Palpatine is one of my favorite characters from the OT and PT. It felt like he was jammed in as the ultimate fan service and to ensure ticket sales from the more die hard elements of the fanbase who were disenfranchised by the last movie.


At the end of the day, a massive cult of the Sith Eternal goes against the Lore. The Sith don't believe in large followings, the rule of two protects the Sith Lord from weaker undeserving people combining their strength to over throw the Dark Lord of the Sith. The whole idea of Palpatine being all the Sith and using essence transfer to jump into Rey was rather strange, and a Sith would never say sacrifice me so you can have all the power. Giving power away is far from the Sith way. The expectation is that the Master has the power the apprentice covets it, and has to earn it by beating the master.



I just hated the way that they killed Palpatine with two light sabers crossed, it was unsatisfying. I was hoping for something more epic. This almost felt like JJ was running low on paper and his pen was running out of ink.


I did laugh at the fact that they pretty much Jar Jar'd poor Rose. The girl has been through hell since she got the role in TLJ, I almost felt sorry for her.


The other thing that kind of baffled me was at the end of TLJ nobody showed, the FO was too powerful nobody answered the call. Then Lando goes out and even though the Final Order is more powerful and lead by a evil emperor that has literally come back from the dead suddenly you see a fleet of thousands of ships, that would have probably overwhelmed the first order in TLJ. But Leia couldn't convince them but Lando could.


The question that I had after the movie was the whole palpatine paradox. I'm expecting that at some point we'll learn that the Palpatine that we saw in the movie was not the Palpatine from the OT and from the PT. It was a clone controlled by Palpatine from the Sith Temple. This Palpatine never fell down the well and bonked off of the reactor. It would also answer the question about Palpatine's appearance in the OT.



Just my two cents.

I feel this way with most of Abram's work. The build up is usually quite exciting, but when it comes to third acts and resolving the threat or conflict he has built up he often goes for a quick out or simple resolution that leaves you thinking "wait, that's it?"

Happened in both TFA - hollow, unsuspenseful Yavin 4 remake with invincible Poe blowing up everything in one swoop - and TROS. As well as many other projects.. Trek, LOST, etc.

Upon a second viewing things did feel a little more dire when Ren is thrown down the hole and the fleet is falling from the sky, but I feel like Abrams never squeezes the viewer into a sense of impending hopelessness for long enough before revealing a happy resolution. We aren't allowed to sit with the dire circumstances for long enough to feel like things might not go as we hope for the heroes. No, Sheev doesn't need to fire up a saber (although that would've been better), maybe he brings down pillars, does the snoke levitation thing or even chokes Rey. The whole deflecting lighting to defeat him ala Windu is a little silly though. Reminds me of Harry Potter and Voldemort making intense faces/sounds as their magical lights clash. Maybe have Rey force crush palp's machinery or heart or something crazy and unexpected. Just holding up sabers is kind of a silly way to demonstrate that you have all the Jedis' power in you. They could've been more creative there, without question.

But I thoroughly enjoyed the Ben Solo vs Knights of Ren stuff and Palp showing off his power on the ships, so the exogol stuff had its epic moments too.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

one insanely powerful character on the good side and her whiny childish opponent that couldn't stop flip-flopping sides? and a blank (!) slate going into the concluding film of a trilogy? that's what we're calling a great setup?

your thinking about The Force Awakens.