[Rumour] LeBrun: Flames have interest in Toffoli (and other RHS top 6 forwards)

[David Struch]

We have to sell Hamonic & Brodie, this is gonna be the strongest draft since 2003 according to some.

Get the ammo now from short sighted GM's at the trade deadline in order to snag the big fish at the draft.

Perhaps Treliving can add another long term forward from the assets received from those two UFA'S, like one of those three draft pick deals for Hamilton and Hamonic.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

There are a ton of games prior to February 24. Lots of time to consider all options, but they do need to figure out who they prefer to keep out of Brodie/Hamonic, as I think it would be tough to re-sign both.

My guess is they will be in the hunt for playoffs, but by no means a lock. I would keep both for the stretch run and not make a move unless a first was in the mix.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by fighting banana slug

there are a ton of games prior to february 24. Lots of time to consider all options, but they do need to figure out who they prefer to keep out of brodie/hamonic, as i think it would be tough to re-sign both.

my guess is they will be in the hunt for playoffs, but by no means a lock. I would keep both for the stretch run and not make a move unless a first was in the mix.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1221063729862926336

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by David Struch

We have to sell Hamonic & Brodie, this is gonna be the strongest draft since 2003 according to some.

Get the ammo now from short sighted GM's at the trade deadline in order to snag the big fish at the draft.

Perhaps Treliving can add another long term forward from the assets received from those two UFA'S, like one of those three draft pick deals for Hamilton and Hamonic.

If they are in the outside looking in come deadline i have no doubt they will sell both. If they are in a playoff spot there is no chance they would sell both for futures. I know some posters think that its just a Calgary thing to go with the "once your in anything can happen" but thats not the case. I have read countless articles over the years and there are many Gm's in the NHL that also believe once your in you got a chance. IMO every ownership in the NHL probably believes this also.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

^^ so lock or not? I don’t understand the point of the tweet.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by David Struch

We have to sell Hamonic & Brodie, this is gonna be the strongest draft since 2003 according to some.

Get the ammo now from short sighted GM's at the trade deadline in order to snag the big fish at the draft.

Perhaps Treliving can add another long term forward from the assets received from those two UFA'S, like one of those three draft pick deals for Hamilton and Hamonic.

So the Flames should be throwing in the towel in your estimation? Taking two top four defensemen out of the lineup means just that. You're drawing Stone and Davidson into the mix as regulars and then relying on Yelesin as a seventh defenseman.

Giordano-Andersson
Kylington-Hanafin
Stone-Davidson
Yelesin

You're one injury away from having to call up Valiev. That is throwing the towel in on the season. I can see trading one, but not both. If we go into the post season with two AHL defenders as those we're counting on, it's a very early tee time.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

If they are in the outside looking in come deadline i have no doubt they will sell both. If they are in a playoff spot there is no chance they would sell both for futures. I know some posters think that its just a Calgary thing to go with the "once your in anything can happen" but thats not the case. I have read countless articles over the years and there are many Gm's in the NHL that also believe once your in you got a chance. IMO every ownership in the NHL probably believes this also.

I think the race will be so tight until the end that things likely look pretty similar to now. Even if they are out I think it will be by such a small margin that they won't sell. After winning the West last year expectations are high so selling that to fans, management, and the team will be tough. Despite this team playing very inconsistent hockey for a full year now. Unless they go on some massive losing streak I think the team stands how it is and probably makes a small add unless they find someone to make a hockey trade with.

St Louis, Colorado, Vegas I think are the top of the west and everyone else is pretty even. I understand that fans think you could potentially get an easier match up or two and make it to round 3. The thing about that though is the "easy" teams are all about the same as the Flames so I still put their chances against an easy team at like 50%. Then you might have to go through a Vegas and St Louis which is tough. Then you likely face a Tampa, Boston, Washington. I just hope they go with a minor add because I think the team should be focused on building a true contender that can compete with the elite. I'm not sold on our division sucks so maybe we can get past a round or two then hope we catch lightning in a bottle.

[Nelson]

One thing I’m interested about is what Toffoli actually goes for. The price is apparently a 2nd and a prospect, but I’m wondering if that’s just L.A. trying to start a bidding war. I wonder if the price will actually end up higher than that.

If I was in Treliving’s position, I would not give up a 1st for Toffoli, even though I think he is good at driving play and efficient at producing points. The reason is that I wouldn’t say the Flames are even guaranteed a playoff spot this year because of inconsistency and just being mediocre.

The Flames need to get back to drafting a lot. The results suggest the current management group is able to turn even late picks into players, so I’d like them to hold onto their picks for the most part. It’s not a given this roster has the high-end trajectory to win playoff round(s), let alone a Stanley Cup.

[Hackey]

I'm pretty sure Treliving isn't dumb enough to trade this years 1st for Toffoli. In a deep draft that could be a player that completely alters the trajectory of this team moving forward if you hit on it and it very well could be in the 16-20 range. The only way you move that pick is if you're bringing in a top talent who will be here longer than 20-30 games.

[ignite]

Originally Posted by New Era

So the Flames should be throwing in the towel in your estimation? Taking two top four defensemen out of the lineup means just that. You're drawing Stone and Davidson into the mix as regulars and then relying on Yelesin as a seventh defenseman.

Giordano-Andersson
Kylington-Hanafin
Stone-Davidson
Yelesin

You're one injury away from having to call up Valiev. That is throwing the towel in on the season. I can see trading one, but not both. If we go into the post season with two AHL defenders as those we're counting on, it's a very early tee time.

I like the idea of being buyers and sellers. Last year, the BJs didn't get squat for their UFAs, and that was a gamble.

If Tre could get conditional 2020 1st or 2nd rounders (based on playoff success or re-signing) plus prospects for Hamonic and Brodie, I say you do it.

...then find lower tier D-men to fill the gap. Valimaki might be back, also.

Then use one of the attained picks plus Bennett to aquire a legit RW who still has a bit of term. (I'm on the Palmieri train and believe he could be convinced to accept a trade to Calgary)

Boom! The team might still be good enough to make it to the second or third round, plus there are extra picks in a solid draft year. ...and the UFAs aren't lost for nothing.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by ignite

I like the idea of being buyers and sellers. Last year, the BJs didn't get squat for their UFAs, and that was a gamble.

If Tre could get conditional 2020 1st or 2nd rounders (based on playoff success or re-signing) plus prospects for Hamonic and Brodie, I say you do it.

...then find lower tier D-men to fill the gap. Valimaki might be back, also.

Then use one of the attained picks plus Bennett to aquire a legit RW who still has a bit of term. (I'm on the Palmieri train and believe he could be convinced to accept a trade to Calgary)

Boom! The team might still be good enough to make it to the second or third round, plus there are extra picks in a solid draft year. ...and the UFAs aren't lost for nothing.

I get using one of the d-men to bloster up the top 6, but you are not going to the 2nd round using 2 bottom 6 d-men as replacements. Not even sure they would make the playofs going that route.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I'm pretty sure Treliving isn't dumb enough to trade this years 1st for Toffoli. In a deep draft that could be a player that completely alters the trajectory of this team moving forward if you hit on it and it very well could be in the 16-20 range. The only way you move that pick is if you're bringing in a top talent who will be here longer than 20-30 games.

Based on his history of being willing to trade draft picks for players with term, I'd say it would likely depend on what it would take to resign Toffoli.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I have read countless articles over the years and there are many Gm's in the NHL that also believe once your in you got a chance. IMO every ownership in the NHL probably believes this also.

What else are they supposed to say? "I'll be there because it's my job, but I'm not sure why anyone would pay playoff ticket prices because this team probably isn't good enough..."

They are also the people who built the team. Don't rely on the guy who built your house to give an honest assessment of its flaws.

Owners also have a financial stake in it...any playoff appearance/success is good for the bottom line. Most have made their fortunes through aggressive business deals, so of course they want to take that approach in hockey, too.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by ignite

I like the idea of being buyers and sellers. Last year, the BJs didn't get squat for their UFAs, and that was a gamble.

If Tre could get conditional 2020 1st or 2nd rounders (based on playoff success or re-signing) plus prospects for Hamonic and Brodie, I say you do it.

...then find lower tier D-men to fill the gap. Valimaki might be back, also.

Then use one of the attained picks plus Bennett to aquire a legit RW who still has a bit of term. (I'm on the Palmieri train and believe he could be convinced to accept a trade to Calgary)

Boom! The team might still be good enough to make it to the second or third round, plus there are extra picks in a solid draft year. ...and the UFAs aren't lost for nothing.

So you do that and you play Valimaki this year. Boom, you miss the playoff revenue and because you put Valimaki in you are now losing one of Kylington, Valimaki, Andersson, or Hanifin in the expansion draft. Yuu also send a message to the core guys you don't believe in them or the team and would rather a couple of magic beans that generally don't pan out instead of letting them have a shot in the playoffs. Beautiful.

[Mayo]

I would vote to sell on ONE of Brodie or Hamonic now that Razmatazz is signed

We will have a solid top 4 D still with high upside on Valimaki

Selling both would leave us shorthanded and devastated in the case of injury - this is a good team that could still roll in the playoffs if hot

[Flash Walken]

I think if you have good enough forwards you can win with a defense held together by Giordano annd some dental floss and pipe cleaners so I don't think it matters if you trade both Brodie and hamonic as long as the returns are excellent and you have a better top 6 group than any team you meet along the way to the finals.

I thinks it's kind of dumb actually to look at gaudrwau Monahan and tkachuk and say you yourself 'these guys need to play more/better defense.

Just add a couple of guys to turn all three into 85 point players and we're all laughing.

Get two right handed shots for the power play, score at a 38% rate and don't forget you're on live TV as you hoist the cup.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by keenan87

The Flames have looked like dog crap for most of this season. We can pretend they can win it all due to the standings because the Pacific sucks but comeon.

Collect some picks for the Free Agents to re-stock the prospect cupboards, make a few trades to shake up the core, get a better coach.. and then try again next season.

Very few people would say the Flames look like a team that can win the cup. You really think they have much of a chance against St. Louis, Colorado, Boston, Tampa Bay, or Washington? Highly unlikely. So get some picks, ride out the season and then make the necessary changes.

Or I guess we can be #1 fan like you and just believe no matter what.

You mean the division with 5 of the 8 playoff teams in it?

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

You mean the division with 5 of the 8 playoff teams in it?

If you look at the divisions by a point per game metric for the whole division you get the following:


Metropolitan - 1.20 ppg (475 points in 395 games)
Central - 1.16 ppg (399 points in 345 games)
Atlantic - 1.07 ppg (422 points in 395 games)
Pacific - 1.04 ppg (416 points in 399 games)


It shows that on average the pacific is the weakest division this season(so far). Similar results occur when you average point percentage on a per team basis.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

If you look at the divisions by a point per game metric for the whole division you get the following:


Metropolitan - 1.20 ppg (475 points in 395 games)
Central - 1.16 ppg (399 points in 345 games)
Atlantic - 1.07 ppg (422 points in 395 games)
Pacific - 1.04 ppg (416 points in 399 games)


It shows that on average the pacific is the weakest division this season(so far). Similar results occur when you average point percentage on a per team basis.

If you look at the playoff standings the Pacific has 5 teams in the playoffs currently. PPG can get really thrown off by 3 point games, so if St. Louis has 70 points and Winnipeg has 50 the PPG don't determine anything when Calgary has 57 and Vegas has 55 (point totals used are example only). Total points determine playoff spots.

[Roof-Daddy]

Talk about performing some spectactular mental gymnastics to convince yourself that the pacific division as a group is better than the central division as group.