[Rumour] LeBrun: Flames have interest in Toffoli (and other RHS top 6 forwards)

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

Toronto needs a legit NHL defenseman more than it needs a 1st at the moment. The team is in win now mode but its laughably thin D core has been decimated by injury. And nobody is offering a legit top 4 D and a 1st for Kapanen.

In that case why wouldn't they shop Kapanen for a 1st and use that as currency to pick up a D that isn't a UFA?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

In that case why wouldn't they shop Kapanen for a 1st and use that as currency to pick up a D that isn't a UFA?

You first need a team with a first rounder who needs Kapanen that badly since 1st rounders are hoarded like gold, and this is a very solid draft year, it seems. Kapanen may be trending up (his stats this year are no better than last year) but he's still at only 1.5 good seasons and is on the third line. He also didn't do much in the POs. Then, having found a partner for the first, they've got to find someone who has a D and wants a first - i.e. a rebuilding team. Those are a lot of dominoes to line up.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Toonage

In that case why wouldn't they shop Kapanen for a 1st and use that as currency to pick up a D that isn't a UFA?

Sorry, you think they're going to get a top 4 D with term for just a 1st?

[Vinny01]

Saw this deal on twitter last night (just a random fan as it was searching for Flames rumors)

To Tor: Hamonic, Bennett
To CGY: Kapanen, Ceci, Bracco

It was well received by the Leafs fans commenting. My only issue is that takes away a lot of the sandpaper the Flames have and makes them a much softer team. Bracco adds an intriguing prospect that could make the jump but is another small winger.

I am okay packaging Bennett (or preferably Jankowski) with Hamonic or Brodie and taking the Ceci contract back in order to get Kapanen out of Toronto. Ceci is a UFA and would add right shot depth to the bottom pair.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

Sorry, you think they're going to get a top 4 D with term for just a 1st?

As currency. So maybe they do or maybe they add.

Also, I just saw a post where you stuck Toffoli on the 4L with Jankowski so I'm not sure you have the right to judge other people's opinions on roster moves.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You are looking at this year where players aren't slotted optimally. Backlund will produce more from the centre. Mangiapane - fair enough, though I suspect he's going to be a lot like Frolik, who produced enough to be called a good 3rd line winger at the very least.

And Dube is going to produce. You can just tell. He's got 4 goals, 10 points in 26 games at age 21, in his first real season in the NHL. That's something like a 32 point pace and he's only getting better. It's 4 times his goals and double his points from last year.

Sure, results are what determines it, but I don't think anyone in the league thinks Tkachuk, Lindholm, Gaudreau and Monahan are "second line" NHLers, no matter what this year's stats say.

For a team jammed packed with first and third liners, the Calgary Flames sure have trouble scoring goals.

And why were the players not being slotted optimally? Presumably because they haven't been producing. Current management obviously feels they are being slotted better now. Not that I necessarily agree with that.

Then Flames top 4 players have been producing like 2nd liners all season long. I agree we need to expect so much more.

I don't think that Johnny's problems are simply a slotting problem. I think the Flames are desperately trying different slotting for its players because Johnny has been so bad this year.

The offense was designed to revolve around him. It's not working so far.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You first need a team with a first rounder who needs Kapanen that badly since 1st rounders are hoarded like gold, and this is a very solid draft year, it seems. Kapanen may be trending up (his stats this year are no better than last year) but he's still at only 1.5 good seasons and is on the third line. He also didn't do much in the POs. Then, having found a partner for the first, they've got to find someone who has a D and wants a first - i.e. a rebuilding team. Those are a lot of dominoes to line up.

15 or so teams in contention that may want a top 6 RHS.

I don't think this is out of the realm of possibilities at all.

That being said I think my original idea of Toronto dealing with NYR to do their shopping holds the most water.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

For a team jammed packed with first and third liners, the Calgary Flames sure have trouble scoring goals.

And why were the players not being slotted optimally? Presumably because they haven't been producing. Current management obviously feels they are being slotted better now. Not that I necessarily agree with that.

Then Flames top 4 players have been producing like 2nd liners all season long. I agree we need to expect so much more.

I don't think that Johnny's problems are simply a slotting problem. I think the Flames are desperately trying different slotting for its players because Johnny has been so bad this year.

The offense was designed to revolve around him. It's not working so far.

Well based on your thinking, last year, when goals were plentiful, they were all first liners? My assumption is that the players, at capacity, are as I described. Going just on this year, sure we can call them all third and fourth liners, but who would actually think that?

My assessment of those lines has to to with the quality of centres (Lindholm and Monahan are first line Cs based on their history). There's also no doubt that Gaudreau and Tkachuk are first line quality wingers - that's what they always have been and they are nowhere near retirement. That said, any team with two pairs of first line quality can add useful wingers and say they have two first lines or close to it.

[Stanley]

Kapanen makes soooo much more sense in almost every aspect

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I think Hamonic is being severley overvalued in this situation. The Leafs would surely be looking for (and receiving) offers that include more than what a pending UFA in Hamonic brings to the table in exchange for a controllable 23 year old offensive winger in Kapanen, that is only trending up.

I'm all for going after him, but it is certainly going to be a far higher cost that includes a notable pick or significant prospect as well.

See my post about how Flames fans undervalue their own players while overvaluing everyone else's.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

See my post about how Flames fans undervalue their own players while overvaluing everyone else's.

It's so odd to me. If you look around the web, other fans seem to overvalue their players to such a wild degree - then around here, everyone is pure crap and we'd be lucky to dump them.

It's like when we heard the news of the Hamilton deal before we knew who was going the other way - everyone was running around screaming "it's gotta be Johnny + Bennett".

It's almost as if our inferiority complex has been established solely so we can feel good about trades just so that the utter mediocrity of the team isn't so crushing.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

It's so odd to me. If you look around the web, other fans seem to overvalue their players to such a wild degree - then around here, everyone is pure crap and we'd be lucky to dump them.

It's like when we heard the news of the Hamilton deal before we knew who was going the other way - everyone was running around screaming "it's gotta be Johnny + Bennett".

It's almost as if our inferiority complex has been established solely so we can feel good about trades just so that the utter mediocrity of the team isn't so crushing.

Yet when Hamilton was traded to Carolina, many thought we were giving up way more than we were receiving.

I think it's a mixed bag here, there are many people here who view that Johnny would bring in a Kings ransom even with his poor showing over the last year. Other's think buyers will be very cautious. The truth likely lies in between as usual.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Yet when Hamilton was traded to Carolina, many thought we were giving up way more than we were receiving.

I think it's a mixed bag here, there are many people here who view that Johnny would bring in a Kings ransom even with his poor showing over the last year. Other's think buyers will be very cautious. The truth likely lies in between as usual.

That was a bit different though.

I think a lot of people rushed to a conclusion with properly assessing the pieces.

A signed Ferland and a signed Fox, plus a Hamilton with term left is a very different package than one year of Ferland, and a kid that wouldn't sign with Calgary by all reports.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bingo

That was a bit different though.

I think a lot of people rushed to a conclusion with properly assessing the pieces.

A signed Ferland and a signed Fox, plus a Hamilton with term left is a very different package than one year of Ferland, and a kid that wouldn't sign with Calgary by all reports.

That's correct.

It does show that many here don't even stop to consider the financial ramifications of the players involved before criticizing many moves.

It also shows how much a players contract goes into determining the value of a player.

[GullFoss]

Can someone explain to me why Toronto would want to trade Kapanen? Is it just for the cap savings (to add to back-end) or to acquire a defenseman for the back end?

I think Dubas is stupid, but he can't be so stupid as to trade Kapanen for a rental defenseman or one he could acquire as a UFA. It also doesn't make sense to trade a top-6 player that's making $3m a year, just because "he's buried in the depth chart" unless you're taking back a young defenseman who's equally underpaid.

If you have a $3m player that is ready for a top-6 role, you make room for him by trading a higher priced contract. It would make far more sense for the leafs to trade Marner, Tavares, Matthews or Nylander for a high end defenseman (or two).

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Can someone explain to me why Toronto would want to trade Kapanen? Is it just for the cap savings (to add to back-end) or to acquire a defenseman for the back end?

I think Dubas is stupid, but he can't be so stupid as to trade Kapanen for a rental defenseman or one he could acquire as a UFA. It also doesn't make sense to trade a top-6 player that's making $3m a year, just because "he's buried in the depth chart" unless you're taking back a young defenseman who's equally underpaid.

If you have a $3m player that is ready for a top-6 role, you make room for him by trading a higher priced contract. It would make far more sense for the leafs to trade Marner, Tavares, Matthews or Nylander for a high end defenseman (or two).

I don't think Dubas is trading Kapanen, or any of their players with term left for someone who isn't going to be retained beyond the end of the season. That doesn't rule out UFAs though, as negotiations can be done before trades are finalized (like we saw with Stone last year) - and when it comes to Toronto, we know that they have had significant interest in both Brodie and Hamonic previously.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Can someone explain to me why Toronto would want to trade Kapanen? Is it just for the cap savings (to add to back-end) or to acquire a defenseman for the back end?

I think Dubas is stupid, but he can't be so stupid as to trade Kapanen for a rental defenseman or one he could acquire as a UFA. It also doesn't make sense to trade a top-6 player that's making $3m a year, just because "he's buried in the depth chart" unless you're taking back a young defenseman who's equally underpaid.

If you have a $3m player that is ready for a top-6 role, you make room for him by trading a higher priced contract. It would make far more sense for the leafs to trade Marner, Tavares, Matthews or Nylander for a high end defenseman (or two).

Is he ready a top 6 player though?

[Toonage]

From this week's 31 Thoughts:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...-injury-rehab/

"There’s been a lot of talk about Kasperi Kapanen, but the sense around the NHL is the only way Toronto moves him now is in a big deal. Something that makes them significantly better."

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Toonage

From this week's 31 Thoughts:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...-injury-rehab/

"There’s been a lot of talk about Kasperi Kapanen, but the sense around the NHL is the only way Toronto moves him now is in a big deal. Something that makes them significantly better."

Seems like an odd toss away comment. I don't think anyone makes a trade without trying to make their team better/significantly better...

[GullFoss]

At some point Dubas is going to get fired or figure out that (in a cap world) TML can't be allocating 50% of the cap to four forwards.

It won't be Hall for Larson one-for-one, but one of those four guys is probably going to move.