Elias 'Fricken Zebulon' Lindholm!

[Bingo]

Didn't draft any of Iginla, Kiprusoff or Regehr either.

Team history ... the Flames have only drafted three core pieces all time.

MacInnis
Roberts
Tkachuk

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Dragomir

That trade is an anomaly in the NHL though, the majority of impact players are usually drafted and developed not traded for. We also gave up a huge piece in Hamilton for him so it wasn’t nearly as effective as it would’ve been if we drafted and developed Lindholm.

Not sure your first sentence is true at all. Depends on the team. Some teams do well drafting and developing their own players, some trade or sign for theirs. It doesn't have to be just one or the other either. Smart GM's will draft core players AND trade for them, best of both worlds no?

Your 2nd sentence doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.
Isn't trading a mid 1st and two 2nds for Hamilton and then trading Hamilton for Lindholm pretty similar to drafting Lindholm with a high 1st?
Why do you consider one more effective than the other? In both cases pretty much the same value was spent to acquire Lindholm. A high first is probably worth around a mid 1st and two 2nds.

Anyways I don't really follow what point you're trying to make.

My point would be that in different stages of the team's cycle you want to draft players vs trade for them. Earlier in our rebuild we mostly wanted to draft players. But (and some fans completely miss the point on this) you have to surround them with some veterans and some other decent players otherwise they'll lose and lose and become serial losers (see Edmonton.) You can't go all kids. They'll never learn to win by themselves. Anyways, that was a bit of a sidetrack. We are now just starting to contend. At this point in the lifecycle drafting a kid who will play in 2-3 years isn't as effective as trading our 1st for a top two line forward who is in the same age range as our young core.

Drafting another Lindholm next summer who will break out 5 years later isn't as preferable as trading for a young core piece now. You need context to evaluate the effectiveness of whether 1st rounders are best spent as a trade asset or by drafting. Sometimes you wanna be building your core through the draft. Now we want to be supplementing the core through trades for young players who are near in age to the core. I'm always happy to keep the 1st rounder as you might guess from my username but it seems like this year could be a prime year to be adding to the core and using the 1st as a trade asset.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Didn't draft any of Iginla, Kiprusoff or Regehr either.

Team history ... the Flames have only drafted three core pieces all time.

MacInnis
Roberts
Tkachuk

Fleury. Cmon bingo.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Didn't draft any of Iginla, Kiprusoff or Regehr either.

Team history ... the Flames have only drafted three core pieces all time.

MacInnis
Roberts
Tkachuk

curious how you define the last bit here. I think there are a few more players- particularly drafted in the 80s that would qualify- unless you mean in first round?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Didn't draft any of Iginla, Kiprusoff or Regehr either.

Team history ... the Flames have only drafted three core pieces all time.

MacInnis
Roberts
Tkachuk

I'd argue these guys were core pieces:


Fleury
Newy
Vernon
Suter
Hull (you didn't say for who )


Pretty darn close:

Monahan
Gaudreau
Brodie
Backs

[GioforPM]

Looking at it, Bingo had to mean round one.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Be that as it may, tough to say Monahan isn’t a piece of this team’s core

[blankall]

The Flames definitely went through a very dark period from the mid 90s to about 2012 in terms of drafting.

However, you can't deny that they drafted the vast majority of that cup team in '89. Other players not mentioned that they drafted are Fleury, Neiuwendyk, Loob, Vernon, Suter, Hrdina, and Makarov. That was very much a Flames drafted core through and through with a couple shrewd trades to solidify the cup winning team.

I'd also call the current team largely drafted too. Yes we acquired Lindholm and Hanifin in trades, but the vast majority of the rest is purely homegrown.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Didn't draft any of Iginla, Kiprusoff or Regehr either.

Team history ... the Flames have only drafted three core pieces all time.

MacInnis
Roberts
Tkachuk

Sleeping on Monahan IMO. He has made very legitimate strides this year in spite of everything.

Tkachuk might just wind up our best draft pick of all time though. Depends how long he stays and what sort of team we are able to put up around him long term.

[nik-]

In a total burndown, Lindholm is definitely a player you keep.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by nik-

In a total burndown, Lindholm is definitely a player you keep.

I'd keep Lindy, Tkachuk, and Monahan from the current core if we were going for a rebuild. All are still young and have multiple years of team control left, while still showing that they have room to improve potentially.

[BrennyBaller]

Since when is Gaudreau not a part of this teams core?!

[nik-]

Originally Posted by BrennyBaller

Since when is Gaudreau not a part of this teams core?!

"from the current core" is a selection of the team's core.

Edit: sorry, I see what you're referring to above.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by BrennyBaller

Since when is Gaudreau not a part of this teams core?!

Too easy to shut Gaudreau down through physicality, hooking, holding, etc
Too easy to get him frustrated and off his game
Gaudreau has had horrendous puck management most of the year. He turns the puck over far too easily, routinely makes poor decisions with it.

Gaudreau has been playing himself off of the teams core most of this calendar year. He’ll have to show marked improvement in the above areas if he wants to convince management he’s a player to build around. Who knows, maybe ownership wouldn’t let Treliving trade him, it’s hard to say.

[BrennyBaller]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Too easy to shut Gaudreau down through physicality, hooking, holding, etc
Too easy to get him frustrated and off his game
Gaudreau has had horrendous puck management most of the year. He turns the puck over far too easily, routinely makes poor decisions with it.

Gaudreau has been playing himself off of the teams core most of this calendar year. He’ll have to show marked improvement in the above areas if he wants to convince management he’s a player to build around. Who knows, maybe ownership wouldn’t let Treliving trade him, it’s hard to say.

All true, but still saying "the Flames have only drafted 3 core players" (Roberts, Macinnis, Tkachuk) is ridiculous. Gaudreau has been the heartbeat of our offense for 5+ seasons. He's having a horrible year, and the Flames are looking average because of it. Guaranteed if Johnny gets going even to 85% of last year, our team play and offense will improve dramatically.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by BrennyBaller

All true, but still saying "the Flames have only drafted 3 core players" (Roberts, Macinnis, Tkachuk) is ridiculous.

I didn't say that.

Originally Posted by BrennyBaller

Gaudreau has been the heartbeat of our offense for 5+ seasons. He's having a horrible year, and the Flames are looking average because of it. Guaranteed if Johnny gets going even to 85% of last year, our team play and offense will improve dramatically.

I think people overstate Gaudreau's importance somewhat. He's not our only good offensive player. Calgary is not a 1 man team. Gaudreau didn't make Lindholm last year. Lindholm was as key to that line as Gaudreau was if not moreso. And now they are apart guess who is still thriving and who is struggling? Lindholm and Rittich have arguably been our best two players this year. Gaudreau one of our worst.

We've seen very little evidence that Gaudreau is willing to do the things needed to return him to being a star player. How many months do you wait for Johnny to get going? How many years? Do you just hope and pray? Doesn't seem like a sound strategy.

Gaudreau has the rest of the year to prove to us, management and the coaches that he can take his game to another level and fight through checking and frustration. If he can't prove that then I think Treliving will be forced to move him next summer.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by BrennyBaller

All true, but still saying "the Flames have only drafted 3 core players" (Roberts, Macinnis, Tkachuk) is ridiculous. Gaudreau has been the heartbeat of our offense for 5+ seasons. He's having a horrible year, and the Flames are looking average because of it. Guaranteed if Johnny gets going even to 85% of last year, our team play and offense will improve dramatically.

I'm pretty sure Bingo was talking first round only, because otherwise even leaving out present Flames, he's ignoring Fleury, Newy, Vernon and Suter.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I didn't say that.
Gaudreau has the rest of the year to prove to us, management and the coaches that he can take his game to another level and fight through checking and frustration. If he can't prove that then I think Treliving will be forced to move him next summer.

This seems insane. He's not allowed a down year? He scored 99pts last season, the Flames had their best regular season in 30 years and he was one of-if not the biggest reason for it. The entire team sucked in the playoffs, top to bottom (save Bennett and Smith)... I don't understand why his leash would be so short.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by VilleN

This seems insane. He's not allowed a down year? He scored 99pts last season, the Flames had their best regular season in 30 years and he was one of-if not the biggest reason for it. The entire team sucked in the playoffs, top to bottom (save Bennett and Smith)... I don't understand why his leash would be so short.

Did you stop watching Flames games last season after the All Star break? Gaudreau has been brutal for almost a calendar year now, this is not just one down year but rather a long stretch of mediocre play.

[Monahammer]

Scored 99 points after being on pace for 120+ at the all star break. Context is key!