Spoilers allowed - Star Wars Episode IX

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

This was so much better than TLJ.

The more I think about it, the less I'm sure. TLJ tried to do new and different things and change up the formula and failed, whereas this failed to even paint by numbers.

... Then I go, "yeah, no, it was better. That's just a really low bar to clear. TLJ was awful. This is just a poorly made movie."

JJ corrected the ship as much he could. I liked it in the end and I had already spoiled it for myself.

I don't agree at all... he could easily have done this thing totally differently. Forget Palpatine - Kylo Ren is your antagonist. Now just write a movie that isn't completely centered around finding a macguffin that leads you to another macguffin that leads you to a long lost planet filled with ships whose sole purpose is to create an EPIC SPACE BATTLE OMG LOOK AT THE PEW PEW PEW PEW

[blankall]

Saw this movie a second time. I was definitely able to digest a lot of what was going on much better. I was hoping that it would make the movie better, but it might have had the opposite affect. There's just something fundamentally off about the tone of these new movies.

Something about these movies just reeks of being written by corporate committee. Something about them reminds me more of Pirates of the Carribean than Star Wars. The characters just don't seem very real. They also seem written by someone who's knowledge of Star Wars just isn't very deep.

It's little things like when they all go to that festival, and they have to constantly tell the audience what a free and joyous festival it is. They can't just enjoy the festival themselves. Then they are on speeders and the jokes are just bad....like saying "they can fly now" three times is funny? In the original series Han and the droids were responsible for much of the humour, but it all seemed a little more natural. The movie is just one zany adventure into another. All the "boring" stuff, from the original series has been stripped out. The problem is that a lot of the boring stuff builds characters, sets mood, etc..

The constant one-uppiong of the force powers was also just too much. In the original series Luke, after a significant degree of training, had to really focus to move a lightsabre. Now Rey and Kylo are throwing moving ships back and forth. Force ghosts, which used to just portray feelings, are not physically interacting with the environment....not even going to bother getting into Palpatine.

Disney can create great SW content, as demonstrated by the Mandalorian and Rogue One. Those movies feel a lot less "Disney"ish though. Basically, the studio needs to keep their nose out of the movies to make them any good. They also need to ensure that the people making the movies have a large degree of familiarity with the material.

Anyways, still think this was better than TLJ by a mile, but there was a lot of room for improvement.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by blankall

Saw this movie a second time. I was definitely able to digest a lot of what was going on much better. I was hoping that it would make the movie better, but it might have had the opposite affect. There's just something fundamentally off about the tone of these new movies.

Something about these movies just reeks of being written by corporate committee. Something about them reminds me more of Pirates of the Carribean than Star Wars. The characters just don't seem very real. They also seem written by someone who's knowledge of Star Wars just isn't very deep.

It's little things like when they all go to that festival, and they have to constantly tell the audience what a free and joyous festival it is. They can't just enjoy the festival themselves. Then they are on speeders and the jokes are just bad....like saying "they can fly now" three times is funny? In the original series Han and the droids were responsible for much of the humour, but it all seemed a little more natural. The movie is just one zany adventure into another. All the "boring" stuff, from the original series has been stripped out. The problem is that a lot of the boring stuff builds characters, sets mood, etc..

The constant one-uppiong of the force powers was also just too much. In the original series Luke, after a significant degree of training, had to really focus to move a lightsabre. Now Rey and Kylo are throwing moving ships back and forth. Force ghosts, which used to just portray feelings, are not physically interacting with the environment....not even going to bother getting into Palpatine.

Disney can create great SW content, as demonstrated by the Mandalorian and Rogue One. Those movies feel a lot less "Disney"ish though. Basically, the studio needs to keep their nose out of the movies to make them any good. They also need to ensure that the people making the movies have a large degree of familiarity with the material.

Anyways, still think this was better than TLJ by a mile, but there was a lot of room for improvement.

But the Mandalorian is Jon Favreau, who essentially set the standard and style for the Marvel movies in motion with Iron Man. Disney got bonafide creatives for the TV show but decided that they could just wing the tent pole franchise movies with a guy who takes pride in half the people hating his movies sandwiched by two movies from someone who couldn't write his way out of a wet paper bag.

Kathleen Kennedy had a very long, very successful career in Hollywood, but Jesus Christ did she ever mail in her last hurrah.

Written by corporate committee probably would have been an upgrade on this trilogy, because you have to think at least one person on the committee would say "what's the plan here? We don't want to strangle the Golden Goose with cynical fan service cash grabs, potentially hurting future returns".

[Pockets18]

Watched it earlier, at least it was better than TLJ

Most of the gripes I had with the movie has already been said in thread, I really wasn't a fan of the whole bringing Palpatine back from the dead.
I will say Adam Driver did an amazing job with Kylo Ren. It would have been a nice twist if after turning back into Ben solo, he was the one who lived and Rey died but that wouldn't have made much sense with all the mass murdering he did.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by nik-

But the Mandalorian is Jon Favreau, who essentially set the standard and style for the Marvel movies in motion with Iron Man. Disney got bonafide creatives for the TV show but decided that they could just wing the tent pole franchise movies with a guy who takes pride in half the people hating his movies sandwiched by two movies from someone who couldn't write his way out of a wet paper bag.

Kathleen Kennedy had a very long, very successful career in Hollywood, but Jesus Christ did she ever mail in her last hurrah.

Written by corporate committee probably would have been an upgrade on this trilogy, because you have to think at least one person on the committee would say "what's the plan here? We don't want to strangle the Golden Goose with cynical fan service cash grabs, potentially hurting future returns".

I can't see all of the current movie being JJ Abrahms. Disney must have forced a writer on him that added the humor at least. Many of these jokes could have been ripped directly out of the last Pirates movie. I think the main plot was Abrahms but then he had a committee of some kind mandating humor and action scenes.

Overall though yes, the idea to switch directors and writers part way through was a massive wtf. Both Abrahms and Johnson were undoing things the other had done just for the sake of it.

[peter12]

I liked it the first time I saw it, but as I walked out, I did think that if I saw it a second time, I would hate it. Comments here are proving me correct.

[Hemi-Cuda]

One thing I found myself asking is what does this new trilogy add to the original movies, and to the Star Wars universe as a whole, and I honestly can't think of anything. As bad as the prequels were, at least they gave us a lot of backstories to important characters and expanded on the Star Wars lore. All the new movies did was rehash ANH, meander pointlessly for 2 hours, and then rehash RotJ. The universe is at the exact same place that Return of the Jedi left it in, nothing new was accomplished


I think the main reason the new movies piss me off so much now is that they basically invalidate the original trilogy, nothing that Luke, Leia, or Han fought for meant anything in the end

[Coach]

My thoughts in no particular order.

It's pretty obvious the should have just had JJ do all three, or had him write the 2nd one at least. You can tell this one was two smashed together. Had there been a middle movie that actually tried to advance the overall character plots towards what the conclusion ended up being, you could have a had an interesting story where Rey's possible darkside turn is much more fleshed out and possibly actually happens, and Ben turns earlier and maybe has to earn the trust of the other Rebels to save/turn Rey.

Disappointed with Palpatine being involved at all. She could have been his grandaughter still (another thing that could have been more flushed out in a middle movie), but I don't see why he himself had to return. Would have rather seen a force ghost, if anything at all. I don't want to see old man electric shocks and sky beams, I want an epic lightsabre dual and that just didnt really happen.

The kiss was lame. Mostly because their connection just wasn't well built. In reality they really didnt spend like any actual time together. If they had been able to play with their dark/light turns earlier and built up real tension between them, the climax could have been noted epic lightsabre battle with real stakes.

Just don't really care about Finn. His story lines are super lame, and his affection for Rey ends up going absolutely nowhere. It's too bad because I liked him in TFA, but he just ultimately falls flat.

Poe is an enjoyable character, but again has no real arc as a person or in personal relationships. Supposed to go from hot headed pilot to General, but really you don't notice much of a difference in him. A middle movie that better built his and Leia's connection (instead of making her sleep and replacing her with Holdo for no reason) would have helped this.

I liked how much Leia was available for this film. I don't know how they did it, but they did a wonderful job giving her plenty of time and love. And Chewy had a nice moment of sadness for her which was nice. The way they did her death with the connection with Ben and his vision of Han was nice, but again a full movie of better building Ben's love for his mother would have helped this have more connection.

Wedge Cameo was awesome.

I agree with Hemi above, the whole rise of the First Order and their control of the galaxy basically nerfed all the original character's efforts from the get go. And the whole "the Emperor's been building legions" thing was just too out there for me. Like... how? With what? From that cave some how? Just not a well built threat I guess. Would have been cooler to maybe see Ben/Rey turning and building a evil resistance against a newly formed Republic, only to be turned back.

TL;DR - Needed a better second movie that cared about the story of the characters. One sin off for Wedge.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by peter12

I liked it the first time I saw it, but as I walked out, I did think that if I saw it a second time, I would hate it. Comments here are proving me correct.

Strange, pretty sure I've seen as many if not more posts saying they enjoyed the second viewing more?

I did (despite noticing some not great dialogue more).

What I never understand is why people have such a habit of making up their minds on things before they go experience it firsthand. Just like all the fans that decided they hated it based on the leaks, and even rallied around that hate, but lo and behold ended up liking it in theaters.

I think that's a humanity pet peeve of mine. Why go experience things and decide for yourself? Just get a "jump to conclusions" mat!

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by peter12

I liked it the first time I saw it, but as I walked out, I did think that if I saw it a second time, I would hate it. Comments here are proving me correct.

I saw it twice and liked it

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[#-3]

I thought it was OK at best.

On the good side.

I think the overall plot movements suited to series to date.

The inevitable redemption of Kylo was managed better than I thought it could be.

Palpantines return didn't open up a bunch of plot holes.


On the bad side.

The constant need to build up these unimaginably massive battles with faceless legions is boring, the scale of the disaster doesn't need to get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.................................. to keep our attention. I think its just disrespectful to the audiences intelligence, we can hold the idea that the stakes are high without needing them to be explicitly higher than last time.

The tone of JJs StarWars to me seems to be that of fan fiction needing constant reminders that this is in fact a Star Wars movie, where the characters constantly step out of the frame of the movie to remind you that you are watching Star Wars, giving them this self awareness that they haven't earned.

I'm well aware that it's not a popular opinion around here, but TFA & TRoS sit uncomfortably inside the star wars universe feeling like they somehow got into a party they weren't invited to. While TFA was at least comfortable telling a new story within the star wars universe.

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by calgaryred

I saw it twice and liked it

Me too. I enjoyed it even more after the 2nd viewing.

[GreenLantern]

Saw it again last night, I think I liked it even better the second time. I had read an article that said Abrams confirmed Finn was force sensitive, after the second viewing I saw a lot of clues for this and helps make some parts better. For instance, when he tells Poe that he has no idea what Rey is going through, but that himself and Leia do. There are a number of other parts as well, but also when he just seems to know that the command ship is now the ship they need to disable at the end on a 'feeling', that is the force working for him.

It seems a little weird that Rey, and the entire First Order including Ren, never sensed this ability in Finn.. but I am no expert in how Force Sensitives work and how easy it is to detect their powers, when they are manifested and all of that..

I also enjoyed the Han Solo cameo and the culmination of Ben Solo's road to redemption even more after going back and reviewing his journey through the first few films.

Overall, lots of great parts in this movie. I think it is my favourite of the three in this trilogy.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Saw it again last night, I think I liked it even better the second time. I had read an article that said Abrams confirmed Finn was force sensitive, after the second viewing I saw a lot of clues for this and helps make some parts better. For instance, when he tells Poe that he has no idea what Rey is going through, but that himself and Leia do. There are a number of other parts as well, but also when he just seems to know that the command ship is now the ship they need to disable at the end on a 'feeling', that is the force working for him.

It seems a little weird that Rey, and the entire First Order including Ren, never sensed this ability in Finn.. but I am no expert in how Force Sensitives work and how easy it is to detect their powers, when they are manifested and all of that..

I also enjoyed the Han Solo cameo and the culmination of Ben Solo's road to redemption even more after going back and reviewing his journey through the first few films.

Overall, lots of great parts in this movie. I think it is my favourite of the three in this trilogy.

They more or less smacked you in the face with Finn's force sensitivity. They almost rip off quotes directly from the original series where Finn has feelings about his friends survival. Finn seems to have force sensitivity in the same way Leia did in the original series, where they both have a strong connection to people they are close with and have a heightened sense of empathy.

[Fire]

From a very casual Star Wars fan I give the movie a 7 out of 10. Only a bit better then TLJ imo. I had a hard time caring about many of the characters. I feel the Finn character was developed very poorly, in the last two movies I just wish he never existed.

The movie felt like a hollow experience overall with some good action sequences and a few funny parts. The Rey and Kylo relationship always seem to be more of a sister and evil brother relationship so the kiss between them was really weird. I thought Emperor Palpatine was one of the cooler parts of the movie even though all of that didn't really make total sense.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by blankall

They more or less smacked you in the face with Finn's force sensitivity. They almost rip off quotes directly from the original series where Finn has feelings about his friends survival. Finn seems to have force sensitivity in the same way Leia did in the original series, where they both have a strong connection to people they are close with and have a heightened sense of empathy.

Yeah the movie basically beats you over the head with "FINN HAS THE FORCE" throughout the whole run time. I can't believe someone had to read about it online and then go see the movie a second time to pick up on it.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Yeah the movie basically beats you over the head with "FINN HAS THE FORCE" throughout the whole run time. I can't believe someone had to read about it online and then go see the movie a second time to pick up on it.

A major problem with this new series is that nothing is subtle. It's constant throwbacks to the originals, and they are right in your face constantly. Remember that cool ship from the first series.....here it is again with a new cannon on it. Remember that cool force power....here it is again but bigger and louder. Both Johnson and Abrahms are guilty of this, and it verges on Michael Bayness.

Nothing ever seems to arise naturally from the flow of the story.

This is what makes the Mandalorian so good IMO. The tone is correct and the Star Wars elements are just there, as opposed to being front and centre.

[SebC]

Interview with JJ's co-writer. Discusses many of the same things we're discussing here.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...i-jabs-1265168

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Yeah the movie basically beats you over the head with "FINN HAS THE FORCE" throughout the whole run time. I can't believe someone had to read about it online and then go see the movie a second time to pick up on it.

I never said I didn't 'pick up on it' the first time, I said that I searched for confirmation after the first viewing, which I found from Abrams, then went back looking for all of the clues. Admittedly I found some the second time I wasn't really paying attention to the first time.

I think your attitude in this thread has just been down right horrible. It is ok to disagree with people, and to dislike things, but there is a certain way you can go about it that is still respectful.

If you hated the movie that much, why are you still here commentating on it? Go somewhere else, we don't need this vitriol in this thread, and come back when you want to be respectful and constructive.

[KTrain]

Yeah, OutOfTheCube, you seem really angry about this movie. It doesn't hurt to step away from or ignore things that piss you off.