[Rumour] UPD: Flames are done for the day. Zucker deal does not go through

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by AC

Wasn't the report that Treliving was finally given full autonomy the LAST time he signed?

From 2017:




I guess he doesn't need Ken King's permission but still needs Murray Edwards'? I'm sure it's not unusual around the NHL, but it's frustrating hearing about all the close calls the teams has to big trades that could have made a significant difference falling through because of ownership issues.

That Bishop trade and extension would have happened the year that Elliott #### the bed in the playoffs against Anaheim.

Yeah I took it to mean that Ken King and ownership won’t force trades or signings on him but I always assumed he would need approval for any contracts or trades involving more money coming in than out.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by dammage79

And he would have gotten away with it too if it werent for those meddling owners!

Is giving up Pelletier too much of a kicker for Zucker to be the upgrade on Frolik? I dont know.

And we dodged a bullet with Bishop too IMO.

The one thing I dont like about tree is his penchant for dealing 1sts like candy when the organizational depth was not optimal.

Still dont like the Hamonic trade, felt very unnecessary. The Hamilton trade was worth it, but man would Barzal look good in this core. But we got Lindholm and Hanifin out of it so I'm okay with that.

Honestly, I'm kind of glad whoever nixed things, did. 1sets aren't pez.

Zucker on pace for 28 goals and in his prime with term. Frolik has 4 goals and is falling off a cliff. Pelletier is still playing junior.

1sts arent pez, but Treliving is trying to win while the core is still affordable and Gio hasn't expired yet.

Thats this season plus two more. Frolik and Pelletier arent helping this core win anything, Zucker would have been much more helpful in this window.

By the time Pelletier is any help at all, Johnny will either be gone or making $10 million plus, Mony will be on his last year, Tkachuk will either be gone of making $10 million plus, Backlund will be 35 and Gio will be 39.

If ownership nixed this deal then that just goes to show you why this franchise has been nothing more than an also ran for the last 30 years.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by AC

Wasn't the report that Treliving was finally given full autonomy the LAST time he signed?

From 2017:




I guess he doesn't need Ken King's permission but still needs Murray Edwards'? I'm sure it's not unusual around the NHL, but it's frustrating hearing about all the close calls the teams has to big trades that could have made a significant difference falling through because of ownership issues.

That Bishop trade and extension would have happened the year that Elliott #### the bed in the playoffs against Anaheim.

Full autonomy doesn't exist on any team, Burke stated that outright after he was hired.

[David Struch]

If Murray Edwards is calling the shots (and only accepting deals he likes) then why doesn't he just appoint himself General Manager?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Zucker on pace for 28 goals and in his prime with term. Frolik has 4 goals and is falling off a cliff. Pelletier is still playing junior.

1sts arent pez, but Treliving is trying to win while the core is still affordable and Gio hasn't expired yet.

Thats this season plus two more. Frolik and Pelletier arent helping this core win anything, Zucker would have been much more helpful in this window.

By the time Pelletier is any help at all, Johnny will either be gone or making $10 million plus, Mony will be on his last year, Tkachuk will either be gone of making $10 million plus, Backlund will be 35 and Gio will be 39.

If ownership nixed this deal then that just goes to show you why this franchise has been nothing more than an also ran for the last 30 years.

Disagree with your last paragraph. I see it as they've learned their lesson from the iggy era where all they did was spend draft capital to keep milking every drop they could out of that core.

I still look at Chicago and how they added inexpensive assets to a core they kept drafting and churning up. Spending your 1sts every other year isnt good. It also is not good to negotiate 1sets as consistently as Tree does.

I'm not saying dont trade draft picks to make your team better. I'm saying that you have to have more in the cupboards before you do. Otherwise you slip into that silly cycle again from the iggy era. Where you keep trying and trying and you end up with empty cupboards, bad contracts and staring down a total scorched earth rebuild.

Everyone's worried about centers. You have to draft those. Otherwise you're overpaying for middling talent.

Gotta keep building this thing in the draft. And if we are questioning our core today why would we be spending our future to compliment them? Makes no sense. Have to draft replacements.

[Strange Brew]

If ownership nixed it, it’s highly unlikely it was for hockey reasons. Frolik’s actual salary is quite a bit below his cap hit. Zucker’s is more.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

If ownership nixed it, it’s highly unlikely it was for hockey reasons. Frolik’s actual salary is quite a bit below his cap hit. Zucker’s is more.

I hope this was Treliving asking for more money than his budget, and getting denied. Any other reason is unfortunate meddling by the ownership. While I would prefer they be willing to spend extra cash for success (not my money), my sense is Treliving has a cash budget that approximately equals the salary cap, and I don't sense much appetite to go above that.

[powderjunkie]

What was the rumoured return on the Seguin trade?

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

What was the rumoured return on the Seguin trade?

Gaudreau, 6th over all and a roster player.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by David Struch

If Murray Edwards is calling the shots (and only accepting deals he likes) then why doesn't he just appoint himself General Manager?

Probably because he doesn't want to be involved in the day to day operations and constantly dealing with the NHL. He just wants to micro manage the talent but wipe his hands of all other duties.

[btimbit]

When a deal involves taking on a few extra million, or especially if it included retention, I totally understand ownership wanting at least some sort of final say.

But for christs sake make yourselves available on the freakin' trade deadline and around the draft so you can have the damn conversation at least.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Gaudreau, 6th over all and a roster player.

[bluejays]

Frankly, it was probably for both hockey and business reasons why ownership shot it down. If it was just about money, Treliving would have never got to the point of seeking a deal involving taking on additional salary. The ownership doesn’t also seem like the meddling type to interfere with personnel. Having said that, it was probably loosely defined that if it’s a major deal or taking on salary, bring it to ownership. Then it’s up to Treliving to sell the benefits. If he’s not convincing to ownership and they had reservations from how it helps them now or down the road and their business liquidity, they’d shoot it down. There’s probably a very grey area here where they weren’t convinced of the benefit of taking that additional salary on for the player. Frankly I would in this case. I thought Zucker was the flavour of the month last year much like Hamonic was the year he was acquired.

[djsFlames]

Sounds like Tre's ideas have to go through a lot of channels before he can even get an opportunity to pull the trigger.

That must be frustrating if there is a current plan that he is trying to carry out.

No wonder no moves of significance have been made in some time now.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Sounds like Tre's ideas have to go through a lot of channels before he can even get an opportunity to pull the trigger.

That must be frustrating if there is a current plan that he is trying to carry out.

No wonder no moves of significance have been made in some time now.

Again, doubtful. Different organizations have different thresholds for what goes up the line and what can be done without permission, but this wasn't a petty move at all. $3MM to most of us here is a big dollar investment, so why wouldn't it be for an owner? I'm sure ownership would simply want a briefing on what this means for the team in the short/medium/long terms. If ownership have other business projects going on, they need to be kept abreast of taking on that extra responsibility before they can commit to it, so I see no problem with it. When was the last time ownership was in the press wanting attention? They're not meddling. They just couldn't commit to the deal for their own reasons and that's that.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by fleury

Again, doubtful. Different organizations have different thresholds for what goes up the line and what can be done without permission, but this wasn't a petty move at all. $3MM to most of us here is a big dollar investment, so why wouldn't it be for an owner? I'm sure ownership would simply want a briefing on what this means for the team in the short/medium/long terms. If ownership have other business projects going on, they need to be kept abreast of taking on that extra responsibility before they can commit to it, so I see no problem with it. When was the last time ownership was in the press wanting attention? They're not meddling. They just couldn't commit to the deal for their own reasons and that's that.

I came across a great way to distill the difference between a millionaire and a billionaire a few weeks back.

Imagine every dollar is one second. If you have a million dollars, that equates to roughly 11 days.

At a dollar a second, a billion dollars is 31.5 years, ish.

That's why Murray Edwards shouldn't be pinching pennies over $3M this way or that. Because it's one month vs 46 years (assuming an accurate read on Edwards' net worth @ $1.5B).

[memphusk]

Sucker does not put any team over the top. Glad it didn't happen.

[Hackey]

That's an odd way of looking at it. Is he an upgrade? Does he make the team better? I think both are an obvious yes. 12 goals and 24 points so far this year would be welcomed. Especially if were swapping out Frolik who has 4 goals and 8 points. The idea of losing the first I'm not crazy about but Pelletier likely isn't putting this team over the top either. Will he ever be as good as Zucker? The team is in win now mode and both the Kadri and Zucker trades would have made the team quite a bit better in my mind. Its unfortunate those didn't pan out.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Sucker does not put any team over the top. Glad it didn't happen.

You could argue there isn’t an individual player in the league that puts a team over the top. That’s why 19 players a game get ice time.

[TheSquatch]

Yeah the idea that any trade has to "put the team over the top" in and of itself is... well it's wrong. The occassional trade, like what the Yotes have done with Hall, is a blatant "go big or go home" but most trades are slight improvements/adjustments for both teams.