2019 NFL Season Thread

[browna]

Not sure about done. He has to pass a physical and I really don't think he has stayed in football shape, but we will see .

Robert Turbin also coming in.

With a game in 6 days, then a playoff game in 12, 13, or 20 days, as desperate as it sounds, on short notice you need players of course who can play on the field but also those who are at least familiar with the teammates, terminology, playbook, even if they are relegated to being a blocking back.

I'm sure it will be by committee as well and there will be a handful of guys brought in, in addition to the 4th stringer who played last night.

[Johnny Makarov]

Can't wait for Carroll to play action on 4th and goal on the 1 yard line with 5 seconds to go.
Sit down Beast Mode!

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

Running backs are a dime a dozen, Khalil Mack is a rare talent. If the Bears had any type of offense they would be a playoff team.

Yeah but Jacobs looks like an elite talent at RB and those aren't a dime a dozen or guys like Lynch wouldn't be coming out of retirement. Mack's talent is a little overrated. He's elite but not a rare talent as there's plenty of very good pass rushers in the NFL and he got a lot of press last year on a Bears defense that got a lot of unsustainable turnovers and good fortune. Things have normalized this season for that defense and his stats are pretty unremarkable and definitely not worth $25 million as Hicks is the straw that turns that drink, not Mack.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I'd rather have an elite kicker than an elite RB. As most Super Bowl winners this century have shown us you really don't need anything more than a league average back to win the Super Bowl. How many games this year have kickers cost their team wins?

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I'd rather have an elite kicker than an elite RB. As most Super Bowl winners this century have shown us you really don't need anything more than a league average back to win the Super Bowl. How many games this year have kickers cost their team wins?

This is an absurd take. You're taking Tucker, Gostkowski etc over McAffery, Kamara, Barkley etc?

Those guys put those kickers in position to kick a game winning field goal.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

This is an absurd take. You're taking Tucker, Gostkowski etc over McAffery, Kamara, Barkley etc?

Those guys put those kickers in position to kick a game winning field goal.

No they don't, far more often than not the QB puts the kicker in position to win the game. And it's ironic EE is pimping Jacobs here seeing as he (correctly) thinks Zeke's contract is an albatross. Running backs are disposable, and the best organizations show you this time and again. The Pats have 6 Super Bowls with 2 kickers and probably 20 different running backs. Running backs are less valuable than kickers, no doubt about it.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

This is an absurd take. You're taking Tucker, Gostkowski etc over McAffery, Kamara, Barkley etc?

Those guys put those kickers in position to kick a game winning field goal.

The irony of course is 2 of the 3 guys you list aren’t making the playoffs and the third only has 2 touchdowns all year.

I don’t know if I’d say an elite kicker is what I would take over those guys but it’s kinda not wrong to say you just need an average run game to win the super bowl.

Paying a RB is a bad decision imo.

[SuperMatt18]

I'm actually not sure it's that absurd of a take.

Really the key to winning in the NFL is an elite QB, so with that in mind who would you want to pair the most with your Elite QB

Elite QB + Elite DE
Elite QB + Elite RB
Elite QB + Elite K

If you consider that the Elite K is going to cost you a lot less than an Elite DE, or an Elite RB then that actually might be your best combo. Since then you have that money to spend else where on your roster. (Highest paid K in the NFL is $5M vs a DE making $18-20M, or a RB making $12-$15M)

The issue with Elite DE, and Elite RB is that they cost a lot of money to re-sign. And really in the end your teams ability to win is still determined by the QB, and your best bet on defense is to spend the money across your defense to have a solid overall unit vs. a single player making a ton of money IMO.

If you're paying an elite QB and an elite DE/RB , then you're really going to be stretched thin to fill out the rest of your roster.

Funny part is that I'm not sure the Patriots ever had an Elite DE (Seymour probably the closest thing and he averaged around 6 sacks a season with the Pats), or an Elite RB during their dynasty but during their winning seasons they pretty much always had the Elite QB (Brady), Elite K (Vinateri/Gostkowski), and a solid overall defensive unit.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I think there's a confusion to how good someone is with how valuable they are. Of course Barkley or Kamara or Jacobs are better than Justin Tucker, but the kicker is always the leading scorer on a team for a reason, and they are as SuperMatt says far cheaper to pay. I mean we see New England can bring running backs off the street and have them look decent. As we've seen this year as they've shuffled through kickers after Gostkowski got hurt, you need a kicker you can trust. It changes how you approach offense even.

And when we're talking about a team with playoff and Super Bowl aspirations, you aren't winning every game 49-10. You're winning lots of one score games, and with a mediocre kicker you are in a worse spot than if you have a mediocre running back. A mediocre running back just won't gain yards, but of course the QB can correct that. A mediocre kicker missing kicks in big spots sends you home.

[Jason14h]

Justin Tucker is the best kicker in the league . The Ravens are the best team . Case closed !!

And none of those RBs are better then JT!!

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Syl will hate me for jinxing the Chiefs like this, but they certainly have the look of the team who is putting it all together at the right time. Spagnuolo has been dialing up some great blitzes recently and even though the offense isn't on hyper destruction like last year they are doing the job

Agreed. Lamar Jackson has last year's Mahomes hype, and the Ravens have last year's Chiefs hype. Meanwhile the Chiefs are kinda flying under the radar from it, like the Pats did last year. This could be the year.

[alan21]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Can't wait for Carroll to play action on 4th and goal on the 1 yard line with 5 seconds to go.
Sit down Beast Mode!

It still feels too soon.
Don't hurt me like this.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Weitz

The irony of course is 2 of the 3 guys you list aren’t making the playoffs and the third only has 2 touchdowns all year.

I don’t know if I’d say an elite kicker is what I would take over those guys but it’s kinda not wrong to say you just need an average run game to win the super bowl.

Paying a RB is a bad decision imo.

Which is why you draft them and play them until their rookie contracts. The teams that overpay RB's in free agency are the losers. Raiders got a top RB without having to pay him top dollar. I can tell you without Jacobs the Raiders have at least three less wins this season. That means a lot more than an elite kicker making one extra FG every 15 opportunities than an average one.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I'm actually not sure it's that absurd of a take.

Really the key to winning in the NFL is an elite QB, so with that in mind who would you want to pair the most with your Elite QB

Elite QB + Elite DE
Elite QB + Elite RB
Elite QB + Elite K

If you consider that the Elite K is going to cost you a lot less than an Elite DE, or an Elite RB then that actually might be your best combo. Since then you have that money to spend else where on your roster. (Highest paid K in the NFL is $5M vs a DE making $18-20M, or a RB making $12-$15M)

The issue with Elite DE, and Elite RB is that they cost a lot of money to re-sign. And really in the end your teams ability to win is still determined by the QB, and your best bet on defense is to spend the money across your defense to have a solid overall unit vs. a single player making a ton of money IMO.

If you're paying an elite QB and an elite DE/RB , then you're really going to be stretched thin to fill out the rest of your roster.

Funny part is that I'm not sure the Patriots ever had an Elite DE (Seymour probably the closest thing and he averaged around 6 sacks a season with the Pats), or an Elite RB during their dynasty but during their winning seasons they pretty much always had the Elite QB (Brady), Elite K (Vinateri/Gostkowski), and a solid overall defensive unit.

There are two parts to the equation though. Part 1 is which players you keep and pay after you draft, and part 2 is what do you draft and recycle thru your roster.

So on one hand drafting and using picks on good young running backs is not a bad thing. But paying them a premium price after their rookie contract does not look to be a great move.

Than you still have to prove that paying an elite QB the current market rate for an elite QB is needed to be a Superbowl team. Right now, I don't think that's proven to be a successful formula. Sure you can get there before you have to pay an elite guy elite money like Russel Wilson, or Rogers, or even Roethlisberger for his first Superbowl. But in the past 8 years as the QB market has really sky rocketed in a cap system guys getting top dollar are not getting their teams there, unless it's at the end of the deal where they don't eat up that much cap space.

As I noted much earlier in this thread. You have Brady taking less than his full value, and a hodge podge of other guys who have won Superbowl's as QB's. Nick Foles and Joe Flacco have won as many Superbowls as Drew Brees and Aaron Rogers. Both of whom won their Superbowl before they were being paid the current type of money that an elite QB makes.

In the end you likely should keep the elite QB, and hope that the guy actually is elite, and by the end of his deal the cap has increased enough to put the other pieces in place around him.

So maybe the idea of continuing to pay kickers after you find one, isn't crazy. Doesn't mean you would use a second round pick on one. But once you find one probably worth it to keep him around.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Which is why you draft them and play them until their rookie contracts. The teams that overpay RB's in free agency are the losers. Raiders got a top RB without having to pay him top dollar. I can tell you without Jacobs the Raiders have at least three less wins this season. That means a lot more than an elite kicker making one extra FG every 15 opportunities than an average one.

If Jacobs alone is worth at least 3 extra wins he belongs in the MVP conversation. But we all know he's not worth 3 extra wins, and that of course sells your OLine woefully short. I mean Jacobs had over 200 yards this season in the two games against the Chiefs on 6+YPC, and they lost those two games by a combined 49 points. Yeah it's better to get a running back on the cheap than overpaying in free agency, but even an elite running back on his rookie deal is worth somewhere in the area of 99.9% less than an elite QB on his rookie deal. Running backs just don't matter in this league, and any team who thinks they need an elite one to win hasn't been paying attention the last 20 years.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Which is why you draft them and play them until their rookie contracts. The teams that overpay RB's in free agency are the losers. Raiders got a top RB without having to pay him top dollar. I can tell you without Jacobs the Raiders have at least three less wins this season. That means a lot more than an elite kicker making one extra FG every 15 opportunities than an average one.

Teams can still find good running backs in the later rounds. You can't draft a guy like Mack in later rounds.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

If Jacobs alone is worth at least 3 extra wins he belongs in the MVP conversation. But we all know he's not worth 3 extra wins, and that of course sells your OLine woefully short. I mean Jacobs had over 200 yards this season in the two games against the Chiefs on 6+YPC, and they lost those two games by a combined 49 points. Yeah it's better to get a running back on the cheap than overpaying in free agency, but even an elite running back on his rookie deal is worth somewhere in the area of 99.9% less than an elite QB on his rookie deal. Running backs just don't matter in this league, and any team who thinks they need an elite one to win hasn't been paying attention the last 20 years.

Man you have some really weird takes.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

Teams can still find good running backs in the later rounds. You can't draft a guy like Mack in later rounds.

Raiders got Max Crosby in the 5th round of the 2019 draft. He's got 8.5 sacks just like Mack and he's been pretty disruptive for the Raiders all season. He's having a much better rookie season than Mack's rookie season for the Raiders. He's not as good of a talent as Mack but he's solid. Mack is a little overrated as a player.

[GirlySports]

What a tackle and strip. Looked like a first down for sure.

And I like this ref Vinovich. Should be no problems.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Raiders got Max Crosby in the 5th round of the 2019 draft. He's got 8.5 sacks just like Mack and he's been pretty disruptive for the Raiders all season. He's having a much better rookie season than Mack's rookie season for the Raiders. He's not as good of a talent as Mack but he's solid. Mack is a little overrated as a player.

Raiders and Bears have the same record this season and the Raiders won with the rookie RB head to head. And the Raiders have another first from that deal.

Some people just can't admit the Raiders make the right move. Spend that 25M in Vegas where guys will be lining up to play