Reminded me a bit of the first Avengers movie. Definitely has some warts but what it does well, it does extremely well and makes fans feel like kids again. It’s beyond fan service. That’s doing something hollow that’s more like an inside joke or an Easter egg. This was doing right by fans by being true to the world we’ve obsessed about for almost half a century. It makes it easy to go beyond the issues and appreciate how much they nailed the right parts.
Honestly if they could do away with a few of the issues, which would involve retroactively fixing parts of TLJ, this wouldn’t just be close to being better than any of the original movies, it’d be in a discussion for the best sci-fi/superhero action movie of all time.
I thought it was a lot of fun. I wonder if Palpatine was always the plan or whether Abrams would have used Snoke as the big bad if it weren't for TLJ. I think the first scene with Kylo Ren finding Palpatine would have worked better as the end to the last movie to set this one up.
Am I the only one that thought Lando was a bit old to be putting the moves on the young ex-stormtrooper at the end?
I don't think there was any way that Palpatine was always the plan, he wasn't even hinted at for the first two movies. After Rian Johnson went rogue they were forced to bring back a villain that exploded in an energy shaft on a space station that also exploded shortly thereafter as an absolute Hail Mary. The lack of coherency among all these movies is jarring and just really amateurish, how do you not lay out a coherent plan and arc across all three movies if you want to do trilogies, that's like step 1.
I loved it. I loved how it all played out. It was a very satisfying conclusion to this saga.
It made me forget about the disappointment of Episode 8, yet made me more disappointed with Episode 8. I liked Episode 8, though I ranked it low on the Star Wars totem pole because it took directions I'd rather it not take but now that I've been so satisfied with Episode 9 I have allowed myself to be more disappointed with Episode 8.
I love how Episode 9 just wrapped things up and left me wanting more stories of these characters and feeling the need to explore the EU for side stories, extra explanations and just more. I don't feel like they left anything out or missed anything within the movie though.
I would have liked more details on how Palpatine survived and built that huge fleet but I'm not disappointed that they didn't do that. I'm just happy with the movie.
I loved seeing Han Solo again. That made my day.
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I don't think there was any way that Palpatine was always the plan, he wasn't even hinted at for the first two movies. After Rian Johnson went rogue they were forced to bring back a villain that exploded in an energy shaft on a space station that also exploded shortly thereafter as an absolute Hail Mary. The lack of coherency among all these movies is jarring and just really amateurish, how do you not lay out a coherent plan and arc across all three movies if you want to do trilogies, that's like step 1.
I don't really care about spoilers, I'm pretty much spoiled. But the biggest indicator was in TLJ novel where they laid out that Snoke came from the unknown regions, and had encountered Luke in the past which hinted about maybe those scars of Snoke coming from an encounter with Luke (Which would have made sense). In another of the new EU books, they hinted that Palpatine was aware of an incredible dark side nexus in the unknown regions which was hinted to be Snoke.
They had a different start to the backstory of Snoke then a he was a puppet created by Palpatine. I think there was such a massive panic over reaction to TLJ and the fanbase hating the movie that they had to do something to jump start things in the face of Rian killing what was probably supposed to be the big bad heavy force user, and that was bringing back Palpatine. Putting Palpatine in the trailers would certainly jump start ticket sales since Ian is awesome.
I think that Rian wanted to leave his mark by leaving Kylo as the big bad in the series with no redemption arc, and they threw that out in the face of Palpatine.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
It's kind of curious that there have been some theories dating back to TFA that Rey was some kind of offshoot of Palpatine based on her light saber fighting style.
It's kind of curious that there have been some theories dating back to TFA that Rey was some kind of offshoot of Palpatine based on her light saber fighting style.
I pointed that out a long time ago, she combined Anakin's style with Palpatines. If you look at the Sidious Mace fight from ROTS and that fight in TFA right down to some of the facial expressions there are lots of matches.
I always kind of figured that she was either a clone of Anakin created by Sidious as part of the contingency to replace Vader himself with a younger less injured clone. Or a genetically engineered Sidious that he could transfer is essence into.
It even made sense that she would be on Jakku as Sidious had set up his grand observatory on that world as part of his contingency and operation cinder. It would be a good place to store a contingency or clone.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
So I’m going to brain dump a bunch of items, some a bit contrarian to other viewpoints.
Force heal. My take on this is that it takes life force from the giver, but there has to be sith presence a lot like Harry Potter dark arts. This might explain why jedis don’t just run around healing everyone. The force heal from Rey shares some of her goodness as a Jedi, so the person getting healed gets darker if healed by a true sith, but Rey gives them light. The snake thing gets nicer. I didn’t think much of this at the time. After Rey healed Kylo, she actually killed Kylo and brought back Ben. Ben’s face scar was healed, and his character healed with meeting Han. Nice closure and a pretty emotional moment.
So Ben retained some sith to save Rey at the end. His hand on her abdomen suggests that maybe he made her pregnant and used all of his life force for that. I’m grasping at straws here but I can’t see rise of Skywalker when theoretically that bloodline ends with this movie. I didn’t mind the kiss. Ben’s death surprised me as I thought Rey and Ben would get together to push the next generation forward.
I liked the centre of the story being Rey’s journey. There were some things that bugged me but I committed to myself not to pick at the movie.
I liked the movie. I’d see it again soon which is much more than I can say about other SW movies.
It will be interesting to see what Disney does with both the SW and Marvel universes as both got closure of a sort.
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I pointed that out a long time ago, she combined Anakin's style with Palpatines. If you look at the Sidious Mace fight from ROTS and that fight in TFA right down to some of the facial expressions there are lots of matches.
I always kind of figured that she was either a clone of Anakin created by Sidious as part of the contingency to replace Vader himself with a younger less injured clone. Or a genetically engineered Sidious that he could transfer is essence into.
It even made sense that she would be on Jakku as Sidious had set up his grand observatory on that world as part of his contingency and operation cinder. It would be a good place to store a contingency or clone.
Yeah, that's kind of why I am a bit incredulous of some people suggesting that JJ Abrams was screwed by Rian Johnson's treatment of Snoke et al in TLJ and had to pull this Palpatine deus ex machina to pull things back together.
The frantic nature of the film was also magnified for me, as they had to restart the movie 15 minutes in after a patron started screaming at someone else about their cell phone. He started yelling "Turn your f-ing cell phone off!! I've waited a year to see this movie!!!" over and over. The ushers showed up to remove him. They had to turn on the lights and pause the movie. They then restarted the movie.
After getting over my initial extreme annoyance, I felt very bad for the guy. He either had some kind of medical issue or was under extreme stress. This was not a normal reaction to a cell phone in a theater.
I have been not very interested in Star Wars lately. I have been having a hard time getting into it all. It's taken me since April to read a Star Wars book and I was only half way through. I just had no interest in putting on a Star Wars movie.
Having seen The Rise of Skywalker today I feel rejuvenated on the franchise. I picked up my book later this afternoon (Scoundrels) and now I'm going to sit down and watch The Force Awakens... Though I may have a change of heart and watch Episode 1-9 before I head back to work in the New Year.
I'm totally going to go back to see this one. I saw The Force Awakens at least 3 times in the theatre and I saw The Last Jedi only once in the theatre. I saw Rogue One and Solo twice each.
I'm pumped about Star Wars again.
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I'm the opposite. I've been following Star Wars pretty religiously for the past few years, and I'm pretty much caught up with all that is still canon.
I didn't like the movie, but it never really stood a chance after the debacle that was Episode 8. Overall, it was pretty good for damage control purposes. I don't watch these movies for the suspense or thrills - I watch them for their contributions to the lore.
The film itself was way too fast paced. Way too much happened. There was no time to develop characters, settings, and emotion. A lot of what happened in this film should have happened in Episode 8, in which not much happened.
Other than obvious plot holes, my biggest problem with the new trilogy continues to be Rey. Way too overpowered and perfect. I think the film would have been better if she had died at the end, rather than Kylo (who was comically useless in this fight). Within 15 minutes of screen time, Rey healed a space animal, used the force to stop a large spaceship, and used lightning. I don't know, it seems like a bit much, even for a defendant of Palpatine.
Palps unleashing a lightning storm that would make Thor duck in terror was siiick. How lucky are we that Ian was a relatively young man the first time he put on that emperor makeup. Now he probably just looks and sounds like that so it’s easier than ever to play the character.
One thing about both Luke and Rey, there really is no dark side seduction for either of them in their brushes with Sidious. Both of them use some aggressive sithy powers like choke and lightning, and they can get really worked up during a lightsaber duel, but neither was ever close to considering switching teams. Only Anakin was ever given any reason to be tempted, and that got executed about as smoothly as an Oilers press conference. That’s one aspect of the force that’s done a lot better in the non-movie media, like novels, cartoons and games.
Also I guess that thing where you need a giant supercomputer to do hyperspace tracking isn’t a thing anymore, with the TIEs following the falcon through multiple jumps to rando planets. Generally I’m ok with anything from TLJ being ignored though.
Oh and did anyone else think the position of the suns on Tatooine looked BB-8ish?
I'm going to the movie next week, I know the story elements, I'm more interested in how they shoot it and link it together and pace it. I'm still excited to see it.
On a side note, when you look at the end game of Darth Sidious its always about power, and the ability to cast away morality in pursuit of a higher purpose.
The basic story of Palpatine in the PT was that he was extremely powerful, and he wanted to tear down a chaotic and corrupt government that was in effect based in what he saw as the flawed concept of morality. The Sith always feel that equality is a lie, a chain that drags everything down and the strong should rule the weak. When we got to the OT we saw that rule in effect. We didn't see alien Storm Troopers or ship commanders except for Thrawn. Palpatine felt that the galaxy should be ruled by one enlighted person and everyone else should serve his view of what's best. When you look at the new movie from what I've read and seen, it just seems like he became about personal revenge. The Sith wanted revenge on the Jedi for a genocide carried out by them thousands of years ago. But it just didn't seem like he was interested in being much more then a really powerful villain without a true goal.
In terms of the whole seduction thing. If you watch the PT and the Clone Wars series, his seducation of Anakin was this brilliant long term trap. He was really the honest Iago combined with Satan. He doted over Anakin like a father, told him that he was more powerful then any jedi, convinced him that the Jedi were afraid of his power and thus denied him his destiny and they didn't trust him. He was like a slow burning virus. He found the levers that Anakin was frighted of, the Jedi finding out about the slaughter of the Tuskens, the execution of Dooku in a murderous fashion and the death of his wife. He also talked to him about how the concept of evil was a jedi fabrication, that the Jedi and Sith were alike in their quest for power, that the Jedi didn't understand the force. The most brilliant scene in that whole trilogy was the opera house. Not just for the story of Darth Plageus the wise, but also what comes before that.
In the OT I thought that Palpatine's seduction of Luke was really lazy. I'm going to piss you off, threaten your friends and convince you to kill me. Vader had a better sense of how a Sith makes a Jedi fall. You have a sister, great, since you're so reluctant maybe your sister will see the truth of things. When you go back and watch ROTJ after watching the PT and the Clone Wars its the one thing that really seems off about Palpatine.
In this one, looking at it, Palpatine saying if you strike me down, all of the Sith will kind of occupy you and give you power isn't much of a seduction line. Even the so call seduction of Kylo by Snoke isn't covered at all, and just doesn't work. They literally handicapped the Sith and made them lesser except for the PT, especially the AOTC that contained maybe 3 minutes of Palpatine but you could imagine him manipulating everyone on the background.
In the EU, whenever they covered the Sith, the most fun part of reading it was how they would make Jedi fall, and how strategy minded they were. and how good they were at corrupting what was good by using the truth and applying it like a weapon.
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Last edited by CaptainCrunch; 12-21-2019 at 11:49 PM.
Well. That was really good. It was def better than 7,and of course miles better than 8. A really great job saving the trilogy at the end with a quality third act. The ending for Ben was perfect.
Yeah, that's kind of why I am a bit incredulous of some people suggesting that JJ Abrams was screwed by Rian Johnson's treatment of Snoke et al in TLJ and had to pull this Palpatine deus ex machina to pull things back together.
I’m 99.9% sure Palps wasn’t the original plan. There was zero setup for that in the previous films, and the TLJ mirror vision in the dark hole (cenote?) makes even less sense now than it did back then.
Jumping around on thoughts, the Rey Kylo duel on the Death Star was legend. I like it better than the popular prequel duels because it felt like two real people (albeit with supernatural powers) actually fighting, not just doing a long perfectly choreographed dance. Anakin and Obiwan whack at each other in lava for like an hour, and are still fresh and undamaged by the higher ground moment. Rey actually wears down and is about to lose. That should help satisfy some of the Rey Sue critics out there.
Maz Kanata’s character was also thankfully fixed. After being disrespected by Rian who turned a thousand year old alien woman into a Mandalorian monkey on crack, she’s back to being wise expository dialogue person. But I still kinda wish she got the chance to tell the story about recovering Luke’s lightsaber.
Still dunno how I feel though about the force ghost ability to interact with the real world sticking. Happy for Luke that he finally got a second crack at the x-wing, but then you have to somehow explain away all the times that the good guys could have used help when they were getting their ass handed to them by Sidious/Vader/Snoke. Like when Obiwan says he can’t go to Bespin to help Luke, he was just being a lazy ahole.
Unless the ghosts can see the future and are pretty confident they don’t have to join the battle for things to turn out right.
