Spoilers allowed - Star Wars Episode IX

[SuperMatt18]

Another long post coming...can you tell I’ve watched about 10 hours of Star Wars this eeek and it’s all that’s in the back of my mind.

So after watching this movie and The Last Jedi again prior to it I realized that there were two takeaways that a lot of people (myself included) had coming out of TLJ, that were actually meant to be moral questions for our lead characters but since Rian tried to be a little cute about it, I don’t think it really hit home with people that it wasn’t supposed to be the take away but something that was overcome.

1) Kill The Past

Adam Driver had a strong scene where he try’s to convince Rey to join him and going through it he talks about “Killing the past, the Jedi, Sith, first order, rebellion, all of it”. And due to the tone of the movie I think a lot of people took away that Rian wanted to do this to the Star Wars franchise.

Luke has the similar arc in this movie. Stating that the Jedi and the force must die for the good of people. But in the end he actually realized that he must embrace the Jedi way, confront his fear, and try to atone for his past mistakes by confronting Kylo and helping Rey.

But really the result of that movie was against this theme. Rey still refuses to join him, Luke redeems himself and embraces being a Jedi again, confronts his past, and battles Kylo, and in the end Rey steals the Jedi Books to keep the way of the Jedi alive and Luke becomes one with the force as a Jedi force ghost.

Kylo wanted to forget the past and kill it, but in the end Kylo didn’t convince Rey to join him, Luke was at peace with being a Jedi, and the Jedi lived through Rey.

The past was not killed but embraced, and I don’t think the “want” of killing the past was meant to be theme of the movie, but was something that needed to be overcome.

2. The grey area between good and evil

This part was essential to Finn’s plot but again was not necessarily completed in a clear way by Rian. DJ introduced this thought to Finn, and says that it’s not as clear as good and evil and that there is grey in the universe. You can see that Finn is struggling with this thought, as a guy that abandoned the first order to fight for what he thought was “good”. During the scene it looks like DJ might be right as he kind of gets away scot free, but in the end Finn also rejects this moral question proposed to him. He realizes that he is fighting on the right side with the rebellion, and he enforces that he feels this is right though his willingness to sacrifice himself for the good of the rebellion. His allegiances were challenged and he landed on the side of the rebellion.

These two plot points were what a lot of the media and critics attached to “Rian taking Star Wars in a new direction” but In retrospect I don’t think that was the intention of the movie. They were meant to be used as plot tools to develop the characters, and as moral questions for the characters to overcome, and in both situations by the end of the movie the main characters had conquered and overcome those internal questions.

I just think that since the plot of the movie moved so slow at the start that when these questions were answered it was potentially a bit rushed, so it felt like they were the key themes of the movie since they were focused on more than the characters answer to these questions. So in the end it wasn’t very clear and people (as mentioned myself included) maybe missed the true intention of the movie.

I think it’s why when I watched the two movies (TLJ and TROS) in pretty close succession it stood out more because those themes and how the characters pushed back on them become more clear in TROS.

[Nadal Fan]

I'm trying to think about my rankings of all 11 films, here are my absolute perfect rankings that won't change at all ......for at least today:

1) A New Hope
2) Empire
3) Rise of Skywalker
4) The Force Awakens
5) Revenge of the Sith
6) Rogue One
7) Return of the Jedi
8) Solo
9) Last Jedi
10) Attack of the Clones
11) Phantom Menace

[N-E-B]

My personal rankings would be

1) The Empire Strikes Back
2) Revenge of the Sith
3) A New Hope
4) Return of the Jedi
5) Rise of Skywalker
6) The Force Awakens
7) Attack of the Clones
8) The Phantom Menace
9) The Last Jedi

Last Jedi is the only one I don’t like. The other eight I genuinely enjoy. The prequel era is actually my favourite era but I take The Clone Wars TV show into account as well.

If I had to insert Rogue One or Solo I’d put Rogue One ahead of Last Jedi and Solo just after. Rogue One I always felt was very overrated but was a decent enough side story. Not as good as the main series movies. Solo, I’m sorry, I just can’t get behind anyone other than Harrison Ford playing Han Solo. I just can’t. It might have been a decent film otherwise but I just wasn’t convinced I was watching Han Solo.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

If I was going to rank every movie it’d go:

ESB
ANH
ROTJ
ROTS
RO
TFA
Solo
TLJ

A gap 12 parsecs long then

Holiday Special
A fresh steaming Bantha turd
The prequels

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I’m not following this one. How is them mentioning the Jedi lore, talking about the history of Jedi/Sith, and Rey using the books at all an FU to TLJ.

Jedi lore, talking about the force and how it works, and Rey stealing the books from the Jedi temple were all key plot points from her arc in TLJ. I feel like it one was of the things that was a direct set up from TLJ “The girl already possesses everything she needs”.

Also in the thread before the movie came out I had predicted that since 8 was a lot about the history of the Jedi and stealing the Jedi texts, that 9 would be a lot about the Sith and the history of the Sith. And that turned out true at least partially true with wayfinders, going back to the origin planet of the Sith, and finding “The Last Sith” in Palpatine.

So if anything this continues the story from TLJ, don’t see that as an FU at all.

I agree with pretty much all of this. The only part of ROS that I thought was a bit of an FU to Johnson was Luke's line about how "that's not the way to treat the weapon of a Jedi."

Saw the movie this afternoon, and I enjoyed it. Best film of the new trilogy IMO. There was quite a bit of applause in my theatre after the credits rolled, so I assume a lot of other people liked it as well.

My only complaint is the extremely brisk pace. I felt with some of the scenes, they could have took the time to slow things down a bit, if only to let the audience breathe a little and process what they just saw. But I get it. Abrams had to squeeze a lot of story and fan service into this flick, and overall I'd say he did an admirable job of answering most of the questions posed by the previous two films and wrapping up the saga in an entertaining and satisfying way. Despite a few flaws, I thought it was a rousing, action-packed good time at the movies, which is all I'm ever asking for with a SW film.

I'm seeing it a 2nd time on Christmas day with the family, so I'm looking forward to absorbing anything that I may have missed on first viewing.

Some initial thoughts:

Palpatine ending up as the big baddie who was pulling the strings all along actually made sense and was pretty well done for the most part. Ian McDiarmid was great.

Chewie's anguish over Leia's death was gut wrenching. Hit me right in the feels.

Han's dad moment with Ben was quite emotional as well. Terrific acting from Adam Driver in particular.

Daisy Ridley's performance was outstanding and I thought she was the real heart of the film.

I was grinning from ear to ear when Wedge appeared on screen flying one of the X-Wings.

Loved the return of Lando. Seeing him pilot the Falcon with Chewie during the big battle scene made me feel like I was 9 years old again watching ROTJ.

I liked Keri Russel's character, even though her scenes were brief. Wouldn't mind seeing more of her in future SW films or TV series.

The Poe/Finn bromance was pretty fun, and it was great having the entire gang together for most of the movie. Made it feel like a real adventure, and I was fully invested in the characters this time.

Loved the training sequence flashback with young Luke and Leia.

John Williams' score was wonderfully epic as usual.

I may have teared up a bit during that final shot of Rey looking out at the 2 suns on Tatooine.

Hearing the voices of all the past Jedis was really cool.

[Cole436]

Saw it last night

- All of Carrie Fisher's scenes were terrible. That's really hard for me to type, but they were really hard to watch. It was very apparent that Abrams had re-worked cut scenes that she'd done for the past two movies and it really pulled me out of the movie. It honestly felt at times like an NPC replying to prompts in a video game. I think it was a mistake not killing Leia in TLJ or between movies if they didn't want to recast or digitally impose.

The dialogue between the actors and her footage was painful. Considering how much screen time she got in the first act of the movie, I think it really hurt the overall experience.

-Rian Johnson really affected how much we cared about the group of Poe, Finn and Rey. After watching this movie, I think it was a big mistake keeping the three of them separated for the entirety of TLJ. They hadn't built up enough of a relationship in TFA, and their friendship and camaraderie fell flat for me. Poe and Finn really didn't contribute anything emotional to this movie (something I can't believe I'm saying about Oscar Issac).

-The Rey and Kylo relationship was easily the strongest part of the movie, and I wish it had been more of the central plot.

-Rey being a Palpatine was a great twist and Abrams deserves a lot of credit for following through, and sticking the landing on a very difficult sell

-I'm pretty confused about the bringing people back to life schtick. One of the key points in ROTS was that resurrecting the dead was something that was only (and rightfully) a power of the Sith, as it was unnatural. We've had 8 movies at this point and 3 of them had an entire council of Jedi, with this power never mentioned. I would have preferred this being something that was special because of Rey & Ben's bond as opposed to just being a force power

-The Emperor scenes were great (minus the hooded Sith minions). I thought it was a great crescendo to the series as a whole, and I really enjoyed the concept of the entirety of the Sith/Jedi living within them.

- Adam Driver really did nail Ben Solo. Absolutely stellar performance, and his redemptive arc was very well done.

Overall it wasn't as bad as critics are saying. I wish the plot was more focused and centred on Rey and Kylo, and the movie took some time to breathe. I'd give it a 7/10.

[photon]

Should have been called Star Wars: Return of the Return of the Jedi
or
Star Wars: You're a Force Ghost! And You're a Force Ghost! EVERYONE's a Force Ghost!!

I'm split on the movie.

On one hand the movie was unapologetic about trying to nostalgia me into a fan stupor, and it did that extremely well. The Star Wars fan in me was giggling with glee throughout the movie. It's like watching the best made fan Youtube video that just kept going and going and getting better and better.

As a movie and a end to a cultural phenomenon I got what I expected but I didn't expect much. The Rey/Ben part was easily the best part of it all, I think they carried everything and really shone through. Overall the emotional impact of the movie was there despite it being a remake to the point of recycling the bad guy.

I liked aspects of TLJ and was disappointed that they abandoned those ideas, it'd be nice to grow and change and evolve the Star Wars universe and mythos, but I fully expected what happened. I guess I can go rewatch Clone Wars and Rebels to scratch that itch.

Some of it was clunky but to be expected when they basically had to do the lifting of 1.5 to 2 movies.

Imagine how much better it would have been if they'd built up to Palpatine throughout all of the second movie! Instead we get some text, hard to be emotionally invested in that.

There was also some pretty eye-rolling moments.

But overall I'm still glad I saw it, it was fun, emotional, made me feel young and happy, and that's worth a great deal.

[Hockey_Ninja]

I guess if I had to rank them all from worse to best my list would probably be:

11. Attack Of The Clones: The end action scenes is the only good parts of the movie. Everything else is either boring or painful to watch. One of the worst love stories put to screen and this film honestly mostly feels like filler even though it isn't.

10. The Phantom Menace: It's not good at all but I find it just slightly more bearable than Attack Of The Clones. The Maul-Qui Gon-Obi-Wan fight is pretty great but you gotta sit through a whole lot of blegh just to get to it. I can understand people ranking this one last but Attack Of The Clones gets on my nerves more.

9. Solo: An average film that wasn't even necessary. I realize you could say the same with Rouge One but at least Rouge One fills in a plot hole from the original trilogy. We really didn't need to know Han's backstory. His character was great without one. But the movie itself isn't bad. Just nothing special.

8. The Last Jedi: This film has some great moments and beautiful cinematography. Even though Luke wasn't the Luke most of us wanted to see, the scenes with him, Rey and Kylo were the best scenes that carried the film. Sadly outside of their plots, the rest of the movie falls flat. Poe, Finn & Rose, Holdo and The First Order chase plot lines were not strong and dragged a lot of the film down. I also found the conclusion of the film very dull and Luke's final moment to not be a satisfying end for his character. The film will always be looked at with mixed feelings from fans.

7. The Force Awakens: Yeah it's A New Hope 2.0, but the film is honestly well made and has that essence that makes it Star Wars. The point was to make people excited to see Star Wars again after how much people hated the prequels and it did it's job.

6. Rouge One: The first half of the film can definitely feel like a bit of a drag, but I actually quite like this one. The second half of the movie is honestly some of the best that Star Wars has had to offer yet.

5. Revenge Of The Sith: This film still has some of the same issues the other prequels had, but it also has some of the best stuff Star Wars has ever produced. Seeing the fall of the Jedi and the rise of the Empire was great. Even though Hayden Christensen's line delivery is awful, his expressions and demeanor when he becomes Palpatine's apprentice was spot on. It was the only time I felt you can actually see this person as the man who becomes Darth Vader. It's the only prequel that felt necessary and added something meaningful to the overall saga.

4. Rise Of Skywalker: It's probably a bit early to rank this one so high but I really like how this one closed out the original Skywalker family line as well as the trilogy that it was apart of. A lot is going on and there isn't too much space to breathe but I felt it gave a satisfying conclusion for most of the characters. I also really like how it left things open ended to keep the possibility of these characters returning again someday. I'm actually curious to see where Star Wars ends up after this one.

3. Return Of The Jedi: Yeah yeah, Ewoks, I know. But I love this movie. I love the fight at Jabba's palace. I love the bike chase on Endor. I loved seeing Luke as a fully realized Jedi and him having to struggle with the moral dilemma of him having to possibly kill his own father. I loved the classic throne room scenes with Palpatine/Vader/Luke. It's a fun time even though the Ewoks drag it down.

2. A New Hope: The one that started it all. I do feel that there's a portion of the beginning of the film that drags on a bit (When 3PO and R2 land on Tatooine) but once Luke comes it the film picks up and is a treat to watch until the end. The iconic trench run is a film sequence that will always stick in the back of my mind.

1. Empire Strikes Back: Not much about this one that's already been said needs to be said. Every scene works. Nothing feels out of place. The battle of Hoth, Luke's training with Yoda, Lando, Leia and Han's relationship blooming, Luke's confrontation with Vader in Cloud City. Each piece is where it needs to be and the film concludes with one of the best cliffhangers in cinema history. As close to perfection as Star Wars has ever gotten on the big screen.

[bc-chris]

i saw it this afternoon and really enjoyed it


i wish there would have been a bit of explaining of how the emperor managed to 'come back' after getting tossed by vader in return of the jedi. from revenge of the sith we know that plagueis was able to save others from death, but not himself - so how did palpatine do it? (or did i just zone out and miss that in the movie).

[photon]

Also here's a list of the Jedi who's voices we heard.

https://www.polygon.com/2019/12/20/2...di-voices-cast

[Max Cow Disease]

Just watched Last Jedi this evening in preparation for my second viewing of RoS tomorrow night. I'm definitely in the peculiar minority, but I just don't dislike that movie. It isn't my favourite Star Wars film, but I find that it does more well than it does poorly. There are some simply beautiful scenes to be had there, both visually and emotionally, and I would say that a slightly different light is shed upon it now that the trilogy is complete. Its weak points are still there...I hate the Leia Mary Poppins scene and the overexposure to useless Rose among a few other minor complaints, but I still have a solid time with it, on balance.

[bugsy]

Originally Posted by bc-chris

i saw it this afternoon and really enjoyed it


i wish there would have been a bit of explaining of how the emperor managed to 'come back' after getting tossed by vader in return of the jedi. from revenge of the sith we know that plagueis was able to save others from death, but not himself - so how did palpatine do it? (or did i just zone out and miss that in the movie).

Yeah they dont really elaborate, apart from, yeah, the line (not verbatim) "the dark side has access to powers that some might consider... unnatural" from RotS.

So, dark side necromancy of some kind.

Unless yeah i missed something critical as well.

Need ta see it again.

[peter12]

Also, Billy Dee Williams plays Lando with so much joy. I really enjoyed that.

[OutOfTheCube]

The whole “psyche, there was another transport ship somehow nobody saw, chewy actually isn’t dead” was the most mind numbing dumb thing I’ve seen in a movie in a while.

Twice the movie fails to commit to its stakes with its side characters. There and with C3P0 — oh no his memory is erased for forever, but it’s all played for laughs and he gets his memory back like fifteen mins later anyways. It was pretty obvious they weren’t going to leave their ultimate heroine dead by the time we get there.

Overall,
Mixed feelings.

[Jbo]

The skywalker saga is now concluded, but look forward to people arguing over it until the heat death of Universe.

Saw the move last night and enjoyed it quite a bit. I think the major story beats were always plotted out, but that The Last Jedi went so far in another direction, the course correction felt like whiplash.

[Jbo]

Also, in reflection on the movie, there was some stuff that was just blown past incredibly quickly that I can't help feel will be revealed in a show or side movie.

Example: Rey's lineage to Palpatine. Could have a move it or series regarding Rey's Father, and his place during the Original Trilogy. With the Obi Wan series coming up, and season 2 of Mandalorian, some good places to start. Same with a side movie, or even something like a sequel to Fallen Order.

[OutOfTheCube]

It's telling of Star Wars on a whole that the two most beloved characters introduced this season either don't speak at all, or speak another language (Baby Yoda, Babu Frik).

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

The whole “psyche, there was another transport ship somehow nobody saw, chewy actually isn’t dead” was the most mind numbing dumb thing I’ve seen in a movie in a while.

Twice the movie fails to commit to its stakes with its side characters. There and with C3P0 — oh no his memory is erased for forever, but it’s all played for laughs and he gets his memory back like fifteen mins later anyways. It was pretty obvious they weren’t going to leave their ultimate heroine dead by the time we get there.

Overall,
Mixed feelings.

Pretty sure 3P0 has had his memory wiped 3 times now. That's kind of the joke. R2 not once since we met him in Naboo.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

It's telling of Star Wars on a whole that the two most beloved characters introduced this season either don't speak at all, or speak another language (Baby Yoda, Babu Frik).

Not really and they aren’t beloved. They’re cute. People like cute things.

Nobody thinks it’s telling that people thought baby Groot was adorable. Or ET. Or Gizmo. Etc. Etc.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

The whole “psyche, there was another transport ship somehow nobody saw, chewy actually isn’t dead” was the most mind numbing dumb thing I’ve seen in a movie in a while.

Twice the movie fails to commit to its stakes with its side characters. There and with C3P0 — oh no his memory is erased for forever, but it’s all played for laughs and he gets his memory back like fifteen mins later anyways. It was pretty obvious they weren’t going to leave their ultimate heroine dead by the time we get there.

Overall,
Mixed feelings.

The 2nd transport was clearly visible and no one thought Chewie or the KoR were gonna die that way.

And does anyone really care if 3PO’s memories are wiped permanently? It was played for laughs. Not high stakes.

I can’t imagine how anyone could link those two events with Rey, who we also knew wasn’t going to die.