[Trade] Hall (50% ret), Speers to ARI for 1st, cond 3rd, Merkley, Schnarr, Bahl

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Rando

The Devils would've been smart to wait closer to the deadline IMO.

Salary/Cap hit lower for other team, Jersey still could've retained and that retention would've had a bigger impact. Perhaps this is the deal they liked, then so be it.. but even if your expectations were low, it's still underwhelming.

Not worth it when you consider injury risk and it being a total distraction on/around the team.

Right now they are the only 'seller'. Closer to the deadline, there's another 5-8 teams selling, 10-12 teams on the bubble, and only 10-12 big buyers. With or without this deal, the Coyotes could find themselves on the outside looking in (hell, that could happen by the end of this week)

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

The Duchene trade

Colorado Avalanche Acquire:
From OTT:
Andrew Hammond · $325,000 (AHL/JR)
Shane Bowers · $0 (Signing Rights)
2019 conditional 1st round pick* (OTT - #4 - Bowen Byram)
2019 3rd round pick (OTT - #63 - Matthew Stienburg)
From NSH:
Vladislav Kamenev · $833,333
Samuel Girard · $728,333
2018 2nd round pick (NSH - #58 - Filip Hållander)
*Conditions: If Ottawa's 2018 1st round pick ends up being a top 10 pick, the Senators have the option to keep the 2018 1st round pick and send Colorado their 2019 1st round pick instead.

Result: Ottawa chose to keep their 2018 1st round pick. Colorado receives Senators 2019 1st round pick.


https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/players/matt-duchene

Duchene was moved with another season on his contract and was not a rental like Hall

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I suspect their return was very limited if Hall wouldn't talk extension at all with the team trading for him

Right, but if you look at it as a first rounder and a couple of non-blue-chip prospects, you'd think that's at least what Hall would fetch as a deadline rental even if he flat out says "I will be going to UFA regardless of who I'm traded to", just based on what the price for rentals tends to be. Think about the players who have fetched first rounders at the deadline over the past few years: Evander Kane, Hanzal, Tatar, Hartman, Stastny, Jake Muzzin, Kevin Hayes... none of those guys have recently won MVP or are point-per-game players. None have anywhere near the value of Taylor Hall. Injury risk is a consideration, but it seems to me they'd have been better off waiting for a better market to develop.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

The Duchene trade...

Nope. Duchene was under contract for another full season. Ottawa got 118 games out of Duchene, and if he had been healthy in 2018 they would have gotten 150.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think the Duchene deal is also a cautionary tale in trading unprotected first round picks (frankly the Hamonic deal is as well)
I suspect going forward you will see more trades with better degrees of protection.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

They think Keller will be good when he blossoms? The same Keller that has lead their team in scoring for three years now? Did they also think that Oliver Ekman-Larsson might end up as a good defenseman?

The same guy. They believe he has untapped potential and could be an elite talent. They still view him as a work in progress believe it or not. The name they threw out was Kucherov as what they hoped they had. I suggested more along the lines of Point, and they laughed saying that would be a good fall back.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Duchene was moved with another season on his contract and was not a rental like Hall

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Nope. Duchene was under contract for another full season. Ottawa got 118 games out of Duchene, and if he had been healthy in 2018 they would have gotten 150.

That's right, I forgot about that. Either way this deal was a steal by the Avs. However, there was a little bit of luck involved with how bad Ottawa wound up being, and how good Girard was right out of the gate.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

That's right, I forgot about that. Either way this deal was a steal by the Avs. However, there was a little bit of luck involved with how bad Ottawa wound up being, and how good Girard was right out of the gate.

Colorado fleeced 2 teams on their deal as Turris has turned out to be a horrible fit in Nashville and Girard has been solid for the Avs. A year and a half later the Preds end up with Duchene anyway but are now stuck with an immovable contract with Turris. The Avs are by far the best team of the 3 and are loaded with assets to make a trade.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Right, but if you look at it as a first rounder and a couple of non-blue-chip prospects, you'd think that's at least what Hall would fetch as a deadline rental even if he flat out says "I will be going to UFA regardless of who I'm traded to", just based on what the price for rentals tends to be. Think about the players who have fetched first rounders at the deadline over the past few years: Evander Kane, Hanzal, Tatar, Hartman, Stastny, Jake Muzzin, Kevin Hayes... none of those guys have recently won MVP or are point-per-game players. None have anywhere near the value of Taylor Hall. Injury risk is a consideration, but it seems to me they'd have been better off waiting for a better market to develop.

Evander Kane: Danny O'Regan, conditional 1st or 2nd, conditional 4th
Martin Hanzal + Ryan White + 4th: Grayson Downing, 1st, 2nd, conditional 4th
Thomas Tatar: 3rd, 2nd, 1st
Ryan Hartman + 5th: Victor Ejdsell, 1st, 4th
Paul Stastny: Erik Foley, conditional 1st, conditional 4th
Jake Muzzin: Carl Grundstrom, Sean Durzi, 1st
Kevin Hayes:
Brendan Lemieux, 1st, conditional 4th

Taylor Hall on his own has returned five pieces including an unconditional first round pick and at least one good prospect. Maybe he fetches more at the deadline, but I doubt it would be substantially better than what Arizona paid.

[sureLoss]

LeBrun says the Flames might have put up just as good a package (at least in Treliving's mind) as the Coyotes did.

https://theathletic.com/1467963/2019...erested-teams/

I think Calgary went a little harder than people realize. And I’m not so sure the Flames don’t think that what they were willing to pay package-wise wasn’t just as good as what Arizona did. That’s probably a little frustrating for Calgary, seeing as Hall went to a division rival. Not to mention the fact that Hall spent part of his youth in Calgary, which might have given the Flames a leg up on signing him.

[Robbob]

Arizona must have really liked Bahl.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

"I’m not so sure the Flames don’t think that what they were willing to pay package-wise wasn’t just as good as what Arizona did."

Jesus Christ Lebrun, hire a new editor.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

LeBrun says the Flames might have put up just as good a package (at least in Treliving's mind) as the Coyotes did.

https://theathletic.com/1467963/2019...erested-teams/

It certainly shows that teams value prospects differently.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by robbob

arizona must have really liked bahl.

*nj

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

LeBrun says the Flames might have put up just as good a package (at least in Treliving's mind) as the Coyotes did.

https://theathletic.com/1467963/2019...erested-teams/

I bet the sticking point for NJ was salaried players returning in any offer from Calgary. They were probably more content with controlled assets, which the Flames were not as happy to part with.

[Toonage]

Whats weird is that NJ retained money on Hall. I don't think taking on say, Frolik, would have been the difference.

I'll say this. No hockey exec will be happier to see the calendar move on from 2019 than Treliving.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Whats weird is that NJ retained money on Hall. I don't think taking on say, Frolik, would have been the difference.

I'll say this. No hockey exec will be happier to see the calendar move on from 2019 than Treliving.

Yeah, retaining $3M on Hall versus getting Frolik, who can actually play doesn't make much sense. You still have to ice a team, and maybe Frolik impresses enough where you sign him for cheaper next season.

[bubbsy]

Ugh.... Flames have struck out on potential deals how many times this past years? Argh.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I agree, it seems like a missed opportunity that right now makes me want to be hyper critical of Tree - but then again, if Tree goes out and gets him on July 1st, awesome!

Thinking about this though, I’m not sure I understand Treliving’s plan, or how he projects things - both now, and how he started his time here.

I look back at the Hamonic trade. That was a huge asset expenditure to acquire a player on a good value contract for three years...but I then have to wonder, what the hell was the point of making that trade if we weren’t going to continue to be aggressive and try and compete in that three year window? Why speed up the rebuild only to get conservative after you’ve already bled years of assets, both in big deals (Hamonic) and smaller useless deals (Elliott, Lazar). Hamonic is likely going to move on after this year, making that cost we sunk into acquiring him for three useless seasons...kind of just meaningless and an utter waste. I just really don’t understand the impatience early in the rebuild, and this conservative approach at this stage of it.

I get your point, but I think you're being a bit unfair. You are suggesting that Treliving sat back and didn't go all in after giving up significant assets to get Hamonic.

I would say that he has been very aggressive and has tried to go all in on multiple occasions. (That we know of), he was pushing hard on Zucker, Stone, Hall, and Kadri, within the last 10 months, and probably more that we don't know of or I can't remember.

Did he close the deals? Obviously not, but the price paid matters, and I for one, like the fact that our GM is very tight with the purse strings.

And at the same time, he did close the deal on Lindholm and Hanifin. And he also signed Neal and Ryan last year (and the fact that Neal shat the bed is on Neal, not on Treliving).

Say what you want about getting the deals done, but I don't think it's at all accurate or fair to say that he then went 'conservative'. It looks to me like he has been as aggressive as any GM in the league over the last 18 months.

[Enoch Root]

Regarding Frolik vs retaining salary, maybe the Devils have a couple prospects they would like to bring up so they can evaluate. Frolik is obviously better than dead cap space, all else equal, but if you want the roster spot for kids - different story.