HBO's Watchmen (spoilers)

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by photon

Good episode, if a little predictable. Nice setup for a next season but also a good ending if there isn't.

Exactly.

Watchmen finale did it's job, advanced the story, tied up most of the loose ends and all to logical (if predictable) conclusions. Compared to the last season of Game of Thrones or Star Wars Episode 8 where none of those things happened.

[d_phaneuf]

Thought it was excellent, maybe one of the best first seasons, or only, a tv show could have

A 2nd will definitely happen, hbo needs a post-GoT flagship and this could be it

But lindelof has all but said it wont be him, he said he emptied every thought he had, saved nothing for any potential season 2, but also said he hopes someone has a great enough idea. He wants to see it continued, and did leave door open a tiny bit saying if that's him in a year or two he would love it

Sounds like it could become an anthology series, like what Fargo and true detective have done

Watchmen has so much to play with too, could run in any decade from the last century really

[TheIronMaiden]

It was good. But only good because it is the end of it, I don't think I could like anything more from these characters. I said before that at best this show would be really good fan fiction, and what we got was really good fan fiction. Lots of fun to watch, a few good huh moments, and a well built and consistent world with satisfying conclusions.

8/10.

[Wormius]

Was Reeves confined to the wheelchair, or could he walk? I was thinking that DM transferred his abilities to Reeves, but maybe Reeves was always walking.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I took it to mean that while Will Reeves could walk, he is 104 years old, and thus would get winded/tired if he walked for an extended period of time.

Then used the fact he uses a wheelchair to get around, as a means to mask his intentions and abilities to Angela.

Its not uncommon for the elderly to be able to walk short distances but still use a wheelchair.

[blankall]

The biggest weakness I saw, was that they didn't deal with Dr. Mahattan's ability to appear at multiple places at one time. He has the foresight to leave his powers in an egg (which seems like altering the timeline beyond destiny anyways). Why wouldn't he just make a copy of himself that doesn't rush into the battle with the fancy ray gun.

Pretty great finale, as it did an excellent job of wrapping everything up, which was actually a pretty big feat considering how random it all was. Maybe it's just best not to overthink the Manhattan stuff.

[photon]

After more thought I think my only disappointment is that the series didn't finish like it started.

It started more personal with good characters that felt alive and doing things.

But it ended up as a big comic book spectacle (and a great one), but it felt like Angela was just along for the ride and the rest of the characters' arcs tied into a neat little bow; very different from the messy start.

About 2/3 of the way through I feel like it lost what it had created to move on to tell the end of a different story. At the end much of the great world building they'd setup seemed irrelevant. The actual plot was a cosmic scale power play that was only hinted at right up until it was almost over.

Which is kind of funny because that's similar my #1 criticism with GoT (even moreso the novels than the show), they setup this thing that's coming, then proceed to completely ignore it.

But endings are hard, and with this material it's probably 10 times harder. It was still great and I really enjoyed it, one of the better TV shows I've seen.

I'm still not sure if I actually want a season 2.

[neo45]

What a great show.

I’ll be shocked if there isn’t a second season. HBO has some massive voids to fill.

It would be so good if they actually cast Robert Redford as Robert Redford

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by neo45

What a great show.

I’ll be shocked if there isn’t a second season. HBO has some massive voids to fill.

It would be so good if they actually cast Robert Redford as Robert Redford

I was actually just wondering if, and how much, Robert Redford gets paid for his fictitious part in the show.

[FireGilbert]

Did we ever learn who lube man was?

Definitely a great show. One of the best first seasons ever, up there with True Detective, GoT, and Westworld. I’m keen for another season but the ending was satisfying regardless.

The final episode was fun but not without problems. Agree with photon above that having an epic comic book conclusion wrapping up all the characters was a tonal change from previous episodes which followed one or just a few characters. Also the tropes of villain monologues, a cheesy death, and a ticking clock were a change for a show that was previously unpredictable. Oh and my biggest unanswered question is how the hell did Veidt’s automated Antarctic base stay running for 10 years without any maintenance or operator intervention?

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by blankall

The biggest weakness I saw, was that they didn't deal with Dr. Mahattan's ability to appear at multiple places at one time. He has the foresight to leave his powers in an egg (which seems like altering the timeline beyond destiny anyways). Why wouldn't he just make a copy of himself that doesn't rush into the battle with the fancy ray gun

He didn’t make a copy of himself that doesn’t rush into the battle with the fancy ray gun because he didn’t do it.

He didn’t have foresight to leave his power in the egg, he left his powers in an egg.

If Manhattan used his ability to appear at multiple places at one time he would have known he would have needed to appear in multiple places at one time. He didn’t appear in multiple places so he didn’t. If he had, he would’ve.

If Angela hadn’t gone to protect him from the 7th Kavalry, would he have been in a position to need protecting from the 7th Kavalry?


EDIT: such is the problem with Dr. Manhattan. There isn’t anything he could have done in the past, present or future, there is only the stuff he has done in the past, present and future, all at once.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

Did we ever learn who lube man was?

Definitely a great show. One of the best first seasons ever, up there with True Detective, GoT, and Westworld. I’m keen for another season but the ending was satisfying regardless.

The final episode was fun but not without problems. Agree with photon above that having an epic comic book conclusion wrapping up all the characters was a tonal change from previous episodes which followed one or just a few characters. Also the tropes of villain monologues, a cheesy death, and a ticking clock were a change for a show that was previously unpredictable. Oh and my biggest unanswered question is how the hell did Veidt’s automated Antarctic base stay running for 10 years without any maintenance or operator intervention?

On the peteypedia thing on the hbo website it pretty much confirms who it was, agent Petey

[jammies]

I watched the end just tonight, I thought it was fantastic, and I thought it nailed the paradox of Manhattan's limitless power being essentially useless to him, with the only time he could be happy when he didn't know about it and couldn't use it. Why didn't he save himself? Well, he didn't want to. Only a narcissist would want to live with that power - in the end he agreed with Ozymandius that it was better destroyed.

I would assume the egg grants some power, but not the same omnipotence that Manhattan had. Otherwise he wouldn't have passed it on, especially to someone he loved. And that would also explain why Sister Night didn't turn blue upon indulging in that breakfast of champions, even after she figured out he wanted her to consume it.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

He didn’t make a copy of himself that doesn’t rush into the battle with the fancy ray gun because he didn’t do it.

He didn’t have foresight to leave his power in the egg, he left his powers in an egg.

If Manhattan used his ability to appear at multiple places at one time he would have known he would have needed to appear in multiple places at one time. He didn’t appear in multiple places so he didn’t. If he had, he would’ve.

If Angela hadn’t gone to protect him from the 7th Kavalry, would he have been in a position to need protecting from the 7th Kavalry?


EDIT: such is the problem with Dr. Manhattan. There isn’t anything he could have done in the past, present or future, there is only the stuff he has done in the past, present and future, all at once.

But why would he just randomly choose to leave his power in that egg?

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by blankall

But why would he just randomly choose to leave his power in that egg?

It wasn't random, he did it at the same time he was talking to her about it in Vietnam.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Holy ####. I’m putting that up there with True Detective as possibly the best season of the 21st century. Maybe ever. Hard to quantify a show like this vs shows like Mad Men and Sopranos that had many seasons of goodness. But for a first season? Wow.

Ambitious, well acted, heartfelt, fascinating. I loved every minute of it and found myself transfixed when I’d watch the episodes. I got goosebumps multiple times. That doesn’t happen often. Finally someone did justice to Alan Moore’s work and he’ll likely never see it.

That kids face when he found out his mom was Sister Night. Priceless.

Was the black guy that ran the newsstand the actual kid from New York or just a call back?

One small note about the ending, I actually wish she had his power the whole time and didn’t know. All the way back to drinking the egg in the bar.

Edit: oh never mind. He drank the egg.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by photon

After more thought I think my only disappointment is that the series didn't finish like it started.

It started more personal with good characters that felt alive and doing things.

But it ended up as a big comic book spectacle (and a great one), but it felt like Angela was just along for the ride and the rest of the characters' arcs tied into a neat little bow; very different from the messy start.

About 2/3 of the way through I feel like it lost what it had created to move on to tell the end of a different story. At the end much of the great world building they'd setup seemed irrelevant. The actual plot was a cosmic scale power play that was only hinted at right up until it was almost over.

It’s worth noting that this structure is similar to the original comic. What starts out as a melodrama about retired superheroes slowly shifts until it’s a massive cosmic scale conspiracy concocted by one man. It maintained an undertone of a mystery the entire time, with Rorschach and eventually Dan and Laurie investigating the Comedian’s death.

This was somewhat similar in that Miami Vice’s death was the trigger point for a story that slowly shifted into a very similar large scale event.

Both stories also took time away for a look at the characters involved and brilliantly tied in their own origins to the final outcome.

Obviously they had very different endings but it would be impossible to replicate the brilliance of Veidt’s original “I’m not a republic serial villain. I did it 35 minutes ago” surprise speech. And I’m glad they didn’t try because it would have seemed predictable and contrived.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

One more thing. I loved that the theatre lights were burnt out except Dr M. At the end with Angela.

[Strange Brew]

Just finished this. I enjoyed it quite a bit, and the episode where Angela drank the Nostalgia and experiences her grandfathers memories was an incredible episode of television.

The weaving together of the storylines worked for me and there were clues along the way to make it cool. I’m not quite there with Cecil on the greatness of it as it didn’t have the tenseness of True Detective or season 1 of Homeland, the depth of and intricacy of GOT, or as rich writing and quality acting as say Mad Men. But those are incredibly tough comparisons. But for this year, probably one of my favorite series after Succession.

[Ark2]

I finished watching this last week and I am a bit surprised at how much praise this show is getting here. At best, I would describe it as "okay". At any rate, here's my take:

Pros:
- The score is fantastic
- The acting was pretty good

Cons:
- While the fact that every white person in this show is an evil racist will no doubt scratch an itch for some, I just found it incredibly lazy.
- Character motivations made no sense to me. What made Dr. Manhattan interesting was that he had the power to save the world, but became so disinterested in humanity that he wouldn't and eventually, he left Earth altogether. Fast forward to this series and now suddenly he is reinvested in human relationships and wants nothing more than to play house-husband with someone that he randomly meets at a bar? It just didn't jive for me.
- Perhaps the most interesting character is Looking Glass. He gets a great episode that sets up his backstory, which ends on a cliffhanger. Then, he disappears for the rest of the series, only to reappear in the last 10 minutes and does absolutely nothing of consequence. Wasted potential.

I could go on, but I think my complaints really just boil down to bad writing. Hopefully, if this series is picked up for a second season, it follows a brand new story and Lindelof is no where near it.