[Rumour] Friedman: Devils/Coyotes are finalizing Hall trade

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Valimaki is a stud, his injury doesn't hurt his trade value at all. He's not untouchable, but if you move him it's for a signed, affordable star. Not a UFA or a question mark. I'd be pretty shocked if he's moved for someone like Hall, who will either walk after this year or be signed to a monster contract. If Valimaki is moved it's for someone with term on their contract.

Oh it absolutely does.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Oh it absolutely does.

It's also his second significant injury in a critical development time span. There's realistic chance he doesn't hit the level he was trending to.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Oh it absolutely does.

It probably does a little, but only in the sense that it should make Calgary more willing to part with him. I have no reservations that Jusso is going to be an excellent player, but there's no way he's going to have more impact on the Flames future in the next three years than Taylor Hall will or Mark Stone would have. And that was before his injury.

Valimaki isn't playing with Gio, he's not playing 2nd pair, and he's not on the PP. In practical terms, we're talking about a 3rd pairing defenseman vs a 1st line forward. They have to make that trade.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Do you really think this group misses the playoffs if they add Taylor Hall and subtract Bennett/Kylington/Valimaki/cap dump?

Tre has to realize he screwed up not trading Valimaki for Stone when he had the chance. I don't care how good you project Valimaki to be, you trade him for a modern day Marian Hossa.

This is the year to go all in - you don't know when Gio will begin his decline, you don't know if you'll be able to retain Gaudreau (or want to), you don't know who you're going to lose in expansion.

They have a goalie. They have a very good defense, top to bottom. If they can't get a Ryan Kesler #2C, the next best thing is a former MVP with the explosiveness to back off the opposing D a bit.

Now is the time.

But you are making a huge assumption that Stone and Hall will sign an extension. The Flames may very well feel like Valimaki is the best bet we've got to replace an aging Gio a few years down the road..........something this team will need to do.

Everything I've heard re: Stone was he wanted to play in Vegas........so giving up Valimaki and not getting the extension would have been tough. Everything we hear about Hall is he's going to UFA. Giving up Valimaki should be in consideration, but you'd have to have the extension in place IMO to do it, or it's poor asset management. Valimaki is worth more IMO than a rental.

[djsFlames]

Do you really think that if we parted with Valimaki, that you wouldn't be concerned that he reaches his potential elsewhere? I wouldn't bet anything I cared about that this the injury affects his ceiling or ability to get there.

The injury throws in a question mark as to development and whether that has been stalled fof a period of time, but his value is very much still intact.

[SvenTastic47]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Dicklund1...16820813357056

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Wait you think if NJD asked for Bennett and Kylington, that Tre would hang up?

I think Tre would have said he needs to ensure Hall wants to stay long term and an extension needs to be in place and those pieces are definitely on the table. If Shero says no to the extension talks (or the agent) the Flames probably say no to that package.

Flames are not flush with high end prospects so if they are moving promising young players (or Bennett who was a high pick and could use a change of scenery) they will want to be sure the deal is not just for a rental player.

[Royle9]

I would imagine Calgary would be a place Hall would like to play if given the opportunity completely based on the fact he's from Calgary and grew up Cheering for the Flames.

Now of course money/taxes etc plays a large roll in where a player chooses to "lace them up" but you would have to think if Calgary were one of the teams in the running for his services that Taylor would be pretty keen to speak extension with the Flames even though he's saying he wants to go UFA.

I cant see him not wanting to play for Calgary if the opportunity was there and an extension could be reached. I'd almost wager he would accept a few less bucks to play for the Flames if that meant a long term contract but maybe I'm wrong.

I know as a kid growing up a Flames fan, if I were lucky enough to make millions playing hockey and the chance to play for the flames presented itself I'd totally give up a few bucks to play for my home team

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

The injury throws in a question mark as to development and whether that has been stalled fof a period of time, but his value is very much still intact.

You can debate all you want as to what Valimaki's value is, but I doubt it's debatable that the serious injury he suffered has affected his development progress and consequently his trade value.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I would imagine Calgary would be a place Hall would like to play if given the opportunity completely based on the fact he's from Calgary and grew up Cheering for the Flames.

Now of course money/taxes etc plays a large roll in where a player chooses to "lace them up" but you would have to think if Calgary were one of the teams in the running for his services that Taylor would be pretty keen to speak extension with the Flames even though he's saying he wants to go UFA.

I cant see him not wanting to play for Calgary if the opportunity was there and an extension could be reached. I'd almost wager he would accept a few less bucks to play for the Flames if that meant a long term contract but maybe I'm wrong.

I know as a kid growing up a Flames fan, if I were lucky enough to make millions playing hockey and the chance to play for the flames presented itself I'd totally give up a few bucks to play for my home team

Yes, don't disagree, but it sounds like from a business perspective, he's going to go to UFA to maximize this contract. The only way to maximize your pay check is to actually hit UFA, and be willing to go to the place that pays you the most (you can't actually leverage the best offer, even if it's to get the same offer somewhere else if you won't go to the place who's giving you the most).

What that says to me is he's valuing dollars over location. All things being equal, I bet Calgary would be somewhere he'd like to play (I have no idea actually, but agree with your logic), but can Calgary and our cap space actually offer up the cash needed in the end to get it to an all things being equal decision, and would we want to? Point being, I doesn't seem like he'll be offering a home town discount to come play here.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by bax

That’s not taking into account accrued cap space though.

True, but most teams are fairly close the ceiling

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Wait you think if NJD asked for Bennett and Kylington, that Tre would hang up?

I would hope so. I'm sure he would certainly think about it, but I doubt his memory is as short as it seems to be for people here.

I think he'd rather use a Bennett + Kylington package to solve a problem

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Do you really think this group misses the playoffs if they add Taylor Hall and subtract Bennett/Kylington/Valimaki/cap dump?

Tre has to realize he screwed up not trading Valimaki for Stone when he had the chance.

Firstly, the Stone thing required two to tango. How would you feel about subtracting Valimaki+ from the cupboard to end up with the exact same roster we have today (ie. Stone doesn't re-sign)? If he did re-sign, where would that ~$10M have come from?

As for this group + Hall - B&K (and someone else for cap)? Same coin flip odds of making the playoffs as today. Injury risk is very real for Hall (one 82 game season; 4/8 times he has played <65 games, excluding lockout season).

There are 9 teams fighting for 5 spots (ARI,LVK,EDM,DAL,CGY,MIN,VAN,SJ,NAS). W/ or W/O Hall, there is nothing that makes me feel confident that we are at the head of that pack. -9 goal differential is 2nd worst in this group to only SJ.

[Mass_nerder]

Guys, I didn't want Hall originally but I've really come around to the idea; sure he's not the ideal solution for the top 6 hole (c or RW), but having that extra skill could make a big difference.

That being said, nothing I cheer for every happens, so no need to worry, anti-Hall posters!

[powderjunkie]

The other thing to consider with signing Hall is what it does to the team dynamic/cap structure. Friedman talked on a recent podcast about how it was a problem in Vegas (new guys parachuting in on comparatively massive deals).

The talk of Tkachuk's contract being a problem in the room is totally bunk IMO, but parachuting a great, but flawed player in for ~3M more than the rest of the core? Yikes.

[bax]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

The other thing to consider with signing Hall is what it does to the team dynamic/cap structure. Friedman talked on a recent podcast about how it was a problem in Vegas (new guys parachuting in on comparatively massive deals).

The talk of Tkachuk's contract being a problem in the room is totally bunk IMO, but parachuting a great, but flawed player in for ~3M more than the rest of the core? Yikes.

To be fair our core players are mostly underpaid. They know that and know their pay day is coming up soon. I don’t think it would be an issue

[BrennyBaller]

Originally Posted by SvenTastic47

https://mobile.twitter.com/Dicklund1...16820813357056

Does this guy have any credibility? I've never heard of him

[nik-]

Originally Posted by BrennyBaller

Does this guy have any credibility? I've never heard of him

You've never heard of Roger Dicklund?!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

...Tre has to realize he screwed up not trading Valimaki for Stone when he had the chance. I don't care how good you project Valimaki to be, you trade him for a modern day Marian Hossa...

At the expense of Matthew Tkachuk? No, you do not make that trade. There is no realistic way the Flames could have traded for Stone—since he would have only moved with a signed extension—and also managed to re-sign Tkachuk in the summer.

[icecube]

Roger Dicklund hasn't let me down once and I highly doubt he's going to this time. The guy's an insider.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

True, but most teams are fairly close the ceiling




I would hope so. I'm sure he would certainly think about it, but I doubt his memory is as short as it seems to be for people here.

I think he'd rather use a Bennett + Kylington package to solve a problem



Firstly, the Stone thing required two to tango. How would you feel about subtracting Valimaki+ from the cupboard to end up with the exact same roster we have today (ie. Stone doesn't re-sign)? If he did re-sign, where would that ~$10M have come from?

As for this group + Hall - B&K (and someone else for cap)? Same coin flip odds of making the playoffs as today. Injury risk is very real for Hall (one 82 game season; 4/8 times he has played <65 games, excluding lockout season).

There are 9 teams fighting for 5 spots (ARI,LVK,EDM,DAL,CGY,MIN,VAN,SJ,NAS). W/ or W/O Hall, there is nothing that makes me feel confident that we are at the head of that pack. -9 goal differential is 2nd worst in this group to only SJ.

How do you figure odds of making the playoffs are a coin flip? Why even watch?

[Canada 02]

when is the Christmas trade freeze?