[Rumour] Friedman: Devils/Coyotes are finalizing Hall trade

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

Let's go back to the original point I was refuting.



Since he's been in New Jersey, his teams allow goals at a lower rate than Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Backlund, or Lindholm on the Flames.

That in no way means he is not a defensive black hole. Especially with the goalie carousel the Flames have had. Of course I am wrong though because as Scooby pointed out he is a defensive juggernaut. Better than Gio!

[Monahammer]

Some people just cant let go of hall as an oiler and that hatred. I really hope we see him skating alongside gaudreau at some point. It would be magic.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Can you not read???? I clearly said to look at it over those players careers. What don't you understand? Thanks for proving my point.

You’re embarrassing yourself. People are taking issue with you because you jabbed about blindly thanking a stat, which apparently everyone but you was happy taking in the context of three years, and now you’re off the handle because “their careers! Look at their careers! I said it!!!”

The last three years is a completely reasonable timeframe to look at a player. This isn’t cherry picking. What, you gonna say MacKinnon is “only ok” or something equally brave? Because that’s what happens when you take a player in their prime and look at their whole careers instead of trying to figure out who they are today. You get an incomplete picture.

[TheScorpion]

Lmao I'm calling Scroopy Noopers "Scooby" from now on.

And I'd have gotten away with Hall, too, if it wasn't for you meddling Coyotes!

[N-E-B]

There are some truly awful takes on Taylor Hall in here and I suspect a large chunk of that is people building up biases during his time in Edmonton in an effort to discredit his offensive upside.

No, he’s not winning a Selke any time soon but his offensive upside more than makes up for that. Wouldn’t trade Dube for Hall 1 for 1? Give me a break. That’s the kind of crap other teams fans put in their own ATL’s and laugh at.

Hall is elite and saying you wouldn’t want him here is nothing short of foolish. I’ve seen a lot more good than bad from Hall in his career.

[Monahammer]

Hall-Monahan-gaudreau
Tkachuk-lindholm-mangiapane
Reider-backlund-dube
Lucic-Ryan-czarnik

[Roof-Daddy]

You guys are swaying me towards wanting to have Hall become a Flame and getting my hopes up, which pretty much means it ain't happening.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

There are some truly awful takes on Taylor Hall in here and I suspect a large chunk of that is people building up biases during his time in Edmonton in an effort to discredit his offensive upside.

No, he’s not winning a Selke any time soon but his offensive upside more than makes up for that. Wouldn’t trade Dube for Hall 1 for 1? Give me a break. That’s the kind of crap other teams fans put in their own ATL’s and laugh at.

Hall is elite and saying you wouldn’t want him here is nothing short of foolish. I’ve seen a lot more good than bad from Hall in his career.

It is foolish not to want a constantly injured guy who will be on the sidelines while making 10M a year? On the very low chance he comes here as soon as he signs that big deal when he gets hurt, not if but when I don't want to hear a peep out of the posters wanting him here. I don't want to hear about how we have no cap to add to the team while Hall is injured. Not a bad word whatsoever. Be careful what you wish for.

[transplant99]

nvm

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by transplant99

ob·tuse
/əbˈt(y)o͞os,äbˈt(y)o͞os/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
1.
annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.

What are you saying?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

What are you saying?

That Richards and Carter are available.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by transplant99

That Richards and Carter are available.

Ok.

[dammage79]

So the idea is NJ wants a roster D man, a prospect goalie, a pick (wildly dependent on the quality of the rest of the package) and some depth. IF...if they could muster up a package that equals fair payment along with fair cap compensation I'd offer up this:

Hammer
Wolf
2nd (2020 or 2021)
3rd (2020 or 2021)
Frolik
Petterson

Hall
Mcleod

Hammer value is great, Wolfs is through the roof right now and a golden opportunity to turn a 7th round pick into solid gold. Frolik gives them a winger to run out the year put and balance cap and perhaps move at deadline for something else.

Petterson is another valuable chip but doesnt sink the ship.

We get the prized winger and a RH C/RW for depth.

[Doctorfever]

Some differing takes on Hall. He is a good player, no doubt. Some worries about being injury prone, but I guess that could be any player.
I wonder what his next contract looks like. That could be the difference between maybe taking him on as a rental vs long term core piece.
Anyone know what he is asking for in contract talks with NJ?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Taylor Hall's relative puck possession statistics for his whole career:

2010-11: +5.4%
2011-12: +6.2%
2012-13: +8.4%
2013-14: -0.4%
2014-15: +4.4%
2015-16: +5.2%
2016-17: +7.6%
2017-18: +5.0%
2018-19: +6.5%
2019-20: +1.2%

That's a pretty good resume.

I assume you are presenting even strength stats and not including PP

And Taylor Hall’s +/- career = -39
8 out of 10 years he has been a minus

You found stats that imply he should score more than he gets scored on. Hooray.

Guess what? Counting actual goals for and against, he doesn’t

And guess what? Your stats and mine both happened based on counting events that happened with other players on the ice too.

So what is it that goes wrong more often than not with this guy?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

So what is it that goes wrong more often than not with this guy?

The team he plays for sucks ass?

[Strange Brew]

Not wanting to trade Dube for Hall is the kind of thinking that led to Hall being traded for Larsson. I’d do it just to have one shot at a championship this year. No guarantees in hockey.

But it’s moot. The package to acquire Hall is a whole lot more than Dube.

[TheScorpion]

@deluxemoustache nooooo that's not at all what my stats say. Those stats say that Taylor Hall has always played way better hockey (at 5v5, yes) than basically everybody on his team. They have very little to do with how he plays relative to the other team, but given that he routinely scores at incredible rates, I'd be willing to say he's an elite offensive talent the likes of whom the Flames have had very few of.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

@deluxemoustache nooooo that's not at all what my stats say. Those stats say that Taylor Hall has always played way better hockey (at 5v5, yes) than basically everybody on his team. They have very little to do with how he plays relative to the other team, but given that he routinely scores at incredible rates, I'd be willing to say he's an elite offensive talent the likes of whom the Flames have had very few of.

Have had very few of? You are saying Taylor Hall is on the same tier as Iginla, Fleury, Nieuy, Gilmour, Roberts, ect... Umm no. He is not even on the same level as Gaudreau.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dammage79

So the idea is NJ wants a roster D man, a prospect goalie, a pick (wildly dependent on the quality of the rest of the package) and some depth. IF...if they could muster up a package that equals fair payment along with fair cap compensation I'd offer up this:

Hammer
Wolf
2nd (2020 or 2021)
3rd (2020 or 2021)
Frolik
Petterson

Hall
Mcleod

Hammer value is great, Wolfs is through the roof right now and a golden opportunity to turn a 7th round pick into solid gold. Frolik gives them a winger to run out the year put and balance cap and perhaps move at deadline for something else.

Petterson is another valuable chip but doesnt sink the ship.

We get the prized winger and a RH C/RW for depth.

No offense but that is nothing but a bunch of stuff.

IMO there has to be at least 1 first round pick (likely 2), a young roster player on D, and a G (or G prospect) who isnt playing junior hockey and has played either in the NHL or AHL at minimum.

So it would probably have to be a 1st, Andersson/Kylington, and maybe Gillies but likely Parsons, and I doubt even that is good enough.